MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

I was pretty sure that is what you meant, and I still think you are overstating it.  In all of Division III, I'd guess maybe 20-25 players (that had a true D1 scholarship offer).   Now, I guess 25 can be "dozens", but certainly not "hundreds."

That is just my best guess.

I tend to agree with Q's estimate.

Me, too, if we're talking about players who turned down D1 scholies to go D3. If we add in the players who accepted said D1 scholies and then transferred to D3, I'd say that the number might go up to three or four dozen, but I doubt that it goes as high as a hundred. If we add in players who each walked on at a D1 school and actually got to wear a uniform and keep a seat warm on the sidelines, then we're probably up to a 100 or so. Maybe a few more than that.

As for players who have become legitimate D1-level players by the end of their D3 careers ... well, that's even more open to conjecture. One thing you have to keep in mind is that D1, like D3, covers a huge amount of terrain in terms of talent level. The worst D1 teams tend to roughly be around the level of the uppermost strata of D3, so there is actually a tiny bit of overlap there. In fact, although Massey is a bit shaky as to cross-divisional rankings, it lists over 100 D1 teams lower than the topmost D3, Amherst. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that there are hundreds of D3 players who are legit D1-level studs by the end of their careers, but it's certainly not a rarity. I'd say that we're talking several dozen, at least.

Aside from Western Illinois refugee Anthony Lenoir, NPU's Jay Alexander turned down an offer from Tennessee State (although I don't know if it was an actual scholarship offer or a preferred walk-on offer).

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg,

Note that I didn't say 'd1 studs by the end of their career', just legit d1 (I know loopholes when I see 'em! ).  I dare say there ARE hundreds of d3 players who would acquit themselves well (and some be stars) in the d1 leagues whose champions are perennial 15 and 16 seeds in the d1 tourney.  Indeed, as you mentioned, there are entire d3 teams who would survive in such leagues.

Are there d3 players who would be in the rotation for a UCLA or a Florida - well, yes, but only about once a generation!  But I would guesstimate that 10-15 could contribute significantly to 'mid-majors', and, yes, I believe there are hundreds that could contribute to the bottom-dwellers of d1 - but perhaps chose to be a participant with a non-bottom-dweller in d3!

[martin]

NATHAN HUBBARD – Agent for Country Companies Insurance; lives in Bloomington with his wife (Christina).

Country Companies???  I thought that would be tantamount to treason.  Don't IWU students pledge to State Farm the moment they arrive on campus?

[Titan Q]

Country is headquartered here in B-N too, Martin, and has a big presence in the community. 

[mr_b]

The folks at the table were being a bit generous with the attendance estimate, and that's putting it mildly. I'm pretty good at eyeballing the crowd in the crackerbox (years of experience), and I'd say that there were about 625 people there on Wednesday night. When the four sideline sections are full, it's a crowd of 800. If the stage seating is full as well, you'll get what is the proper max capacity, SRO, figure: 1,100.

I estimated the crowd at 550, though that might have been a bit low.

The media guide also says that the facility is called "Carlson Gym", an insidious myth that has cropped up in recent years due to the fact that the adjacent classroom building is called Carlson Tower and the NPU student section is called the Carlson Crazies. NPU's home court is not named Carlson Gym. It is, simply and generically, the North Park University Gymnasium.

I thought the official name was "The Crackerbox."

[OurHouse]

I was pretty sure that is what you meant, and I still think you are overstating it.  In all of Division III, I'd guess maybe 20-25 players (that had a true D1 scholarship offer).   Now, I guess 25 can be "dozens", but certainly not "hundreds."

That is just my best guess.

I tend to agree with Q's estimate.

Me, too, if we're talking about players who turned down D1 scholies to go D3. If we add in the players who accepted said D1 scholies and then transferred to D3, I'd say that the number might go up to three or four dozen, but I doubt that it goes as high as a hundred. If we add in players who each walked on at a D1 school and actually got to wear a uniform and keep a seat warm on the sidelines, then we're probably up to a 100 or so. Maybe a few more than that.

As for players who have become legitimate D1-level players by the end of their D3 careers ... well, that's even more open to conjecture. One thing you have to keep in mind is that D1, like D3, covers a huge amount of terrain in terms of talent level. The worst D1 teams tend to roughly be around the level of the uppermost strata of D3, so there is actually a tiny bit of overlap there. In fact, although Massey is a bit shaky as to cross-divisional rankings, it lists over 100 D1 teams lower than the topmost D3, Amherst. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that there are hundreds of D3 players who are legit D1-level studs by the end of their careers, but it's certainly not a rarity. I'd say that we're talking several dozen, at least.

Aside from Western Illinois refugee Anthony Lenoir, NPU's Jay Alexander turned down an offer from Tennessee State (although I don't know if it was an actual scholarship offer or a preferred walk-on offer).

I have to agree with GS - sometimes players develop later or after their HS days and become major D1 talent in which they were great in high school but not fast enough, big enough or even talented enough to get a look from a D1 school....

Bottom line is that DIII basketball is sometimes just as good as a smaller D1 level school -as in IWU, they draw more fans per game than any smaller D1 school which would be a great place to not only play but get a great education!!

Really, how many of these smaller D1 school players are going to the pros anyway   

[sac]

I yield to the Guru and the HoFer on the rejected d1 scholarship offers.  (Though another HoFer, sac, seems to lend support to my guesstimate if d1 scholarship transfers are included; I hesitate to include them since usually - though certainly not always - they are transfers because the saw 'the writing on the wall' about their future in d1.)

All 3 of Hope's d1 transfers were heavily recruited by Hope.  I'm not sure any of them transfered because "the writing was on the wall".

although none had played alot of D1 minutes, I believe happiness was more of a factor than playing time.......but I'm sure the PT didn't hurt.

[Jim Matson]

Wheaton over Elmhurst 77-74

I really thought Elmhurst would take this one with their size advantage and with Brian Lee shooting the lights out all season.  But Wheaton does a good job defensively down low (8 blocks!) and shoots 42% on the evening to win it.  It appeared that Wheaton would win this thing big, leading by as much as 14 points late in the game, but Elmhurst did a great job working their way back into the game - 3 big TOs late in the game off of Elmhurst's full court press.  But in the end, Wheaton controlled the play and hit their FTs and held off the Bluejays for a big win.

Raymond had 23 points for Wheaton and Burke had 25 points for Elmhurst.  Lee had 6?!  Nice defense Thunder!

[Brick]

Looks like my Vikes snuck out of Naperville with the W tonight 60-59.  Does any one have deatails from this one?

[kenoshamark]

Carthage beats Millikin - 64 to 60.

http://www2.carthage.edu/athletics/mens/basketball/mu1.htm

[dansand]

Huge road win for Augie tonight, especially combined with Wheaton's upset of Elmhurst. The Vikings have now avenged all three of last year's CCIW losses: at Wheaton, at Millikin, and at North Central. Of course they've lost one that they didn't last year: at Elmhurst. It looks like quite a game tonight. Looking at the play-by-play, I count five lead changes in the last three minutes, with a Drew Wessels bucket with 16 seconds left winning it. Dain goes 8-for-8 from the field with 21 points and seems to be rounding into form much the way he did last year.

http://www2.noctrl.edu/athlet/basketball_m/06-07/MNCC-AUG.HTM

[kenoshamark]

Here is the Wheaton - Elmhurst Box Score:

http://elmhurst.edu/~athletic/Home/M-Basket/stats/2006-2007/melm16.htm#GAME.BOX

[79jaybird]

Wheaton 77
Elmhurst 74

3 point attempt to tie was off and Wheaton won.

1) Raymond played very well and was very good and "sneaking" the pass inside to Wiele and Standard.
2) Elmhurst got into foul trouble in the first half.  This is partly do the very poor officiating. At one time the foul differential was 15 fouls to 6 Wheaton fouls???  That Faulker guy is just awful.  Anyway, with Wheaton in the bonus with 10:30 to go in the first half, was a huge cushion for the Thunder.

3) Elmhurst just seemed timid and reluctant to keep pounding the ball inside to their big men.  I felt EC didn't come "alive" until halfway through the 2nd half. 

4) Ryan Burks was very strong in helping to lead the Bluejays late rally to tie the game.  A couple of clutch 3's and great FT shooting, despite the hostile Wheaton fans.  hehe
This was a very good game between 2 very good D-3 teams.  I think both are worthy to be in the top 15 somewhere.  The only sour apple of the night was the officiating, and both ways!!  Those 3 stooges were just awful     I don't think we went 2 minutes without a whistle for foul.  Phantom fouls, fouls off the ball, etc.  sometimes you just have to let the MEN BE MEN, and let play!

Congrats to Wheaton on the big win, and time for Elmhurst to start a new streak.
BTW,  Andy Studebaker, great to meet you after the game this evening.
Time for Elmhurst to get back on track Wednesday.   I heard it's Cardinal Season at the Bluejay's Den.  :>.........NC   

[WahooThunder]

Great win for the Thunder tonight.  I agree that the officiating was horrendous, but other than that it was a great game.  The Wheaton big men particularly came up big tonight.  Phill Denham was outstanding off the bench and probably had the best game I've ever seen him play and Andy Wiele really stepped up his play as well.  I've got to give a lot of credit to Ryan Burks for keeping Elmhurst in the game down the stretch, he played a really solid game on the offensive end and was unflappable at the free throw line.  This was a big win for Wheaton to keep them in the mix with 6 out of their last 9 games on the road.  If they can win two more this week I think they'll be in pretty good shape.

[Titan Q]

The IWU/NPU game today at 3:00pm will be video streamed on IWU.edu...

http://www2.iwu.edu/news/live/index.shtml


Here is an article from the Pantagraph on IWU's 1997 national championship team, which will be honored today:

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/01/20/sports/122729.txt