MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

With regards to Q's scenario of IWU making a run at the #4 spot, i don't think it is at all improbable. In fact I think only the top 2 spots are close to locks. Wheaton at #3 has too many conference road games left (5--including at the top 2) to be considered any kind of favorite for the conference tourney. The first big road test for the Thunder is at NCC Saturday. Then they host 2 games next week before playing 4 of their final 5 games on the road to close the conference slate. At this point its anybody's game for #3, 4 in the conference tourney.

Augustana 6-1
Elmhurst 5-1

Wheaton 4-2 (@ NCC, vs CC, vs NPU, @ Augie, @ IWU, vs MU, @ EC, @ CC)
Carthage 3-3 (vs IWU, @ WC, vs Augie, @ EC, vs NCC, vs NPU, @ MU, vs WC)
North Park 3-4 (@ MU, vs Augie, @ WC, vs NCC, @ EC, @ CC, vs IWU)
North Central 2-4 (vs WC, @ IWU, vs MU, @ NPU, @ CC, vs EC, @ Augie, vs IWU)
Illinois Wesleyan 1-5 (@ CC, vs NCC, vs EC, @ MU, vs WC, vs AC, @ NPU, @ NCC)
Millikin 1-5 (vs NPU, @ EC, @ NCC, vs IWU, @ AC, @ WC, vs CC, vs EC)


Seeds 3 and 4 are still very much up in the air. 8-6 might be good enough for #3...#4 could very easily come down to a tie-breaker between two 7-7 teams.

The first tie-breaker for each spot is head-to-head play, so sweeps are huge. Saturday, for example, IWU has a chance to secure a season sweep vs Carthage, which would give the Titans the tie breaker over Carthage.

There is a long way to go and the battle in the trenches for spots 3 and 4 is going to be fun to watch.  This is why I was such a proponent of a conference tournament all those years!

[usee]

Late Nite-- If this Augie team is a tournament tested group then how come they didn't show that Tournament toughness at Elmhurst?

Probably for the same reason you didn't see it from elmhurst at wheaton last saturday.....because this is a tough league and wins on the road against good teams are hard to come by.

[diehardfan]

[Actually, Trost, who was sitting with Julie Raridon, was wearing red in support of North Central.   

Then how come he was sitting on the Elmhurst side of the building

I think the much bigger question here is, Why was Julie Raridon sitting on the Elmhurst side of the building???  

If Trost is still going to support any CCIW schools, it's obviously going to be IWU. My guess would be attempting to steal transfers. Bob, maybe you can get him to take Reid Barringer off your hands and help your CCIW Fantasy BB Team out.

I think the Raridon discussion should have ended way back when a fan from the opposing team suggested that what the ref said was so unprofessional that it was hardly surprising how Raridon responded. But it's the CCIW board, so please, discus this to death in a totally condescending manner... carry on. 

[usee]

With regards to Q's scenario of IWU making a run at the #4 spot, i don't think it is at all improbable. In fact I think only the top 2 spots are close to locks. Wheaton at #3 has too many conference road games left (5--including at the top 2) to be considered any kind of favorite for the conference tourney. The first big road test for the Thunder is at NCC Saturday. Then they host 2 games next week before playing 4 of their final 5 games on the road to close the conference slate. At this point its anybody's game for #3, 4 in the conference tourney.

Augustana 6-1
Elmhurst 5-1

Wheaton 4-2 (@ NCC, vs CC, vs NPU, @ Augie, @ IWU, vs MU, @ EC, @ CC)
Carthage 3-3 (vs IWU, @ WC, vs Augie, @ EC, vs NCC, vs NPU, @ MU, vs WC)
North Park 3-4 (@ MU, vs Augie, @ WC, vs NCC, @ EC, @ CC, vs IWU)
North Central 2-4 (vs WC, @ IWU, vs MU, @ NPU, @ CC, vs EC, @ Augie, vs IWU)
Illinois Wesleyan 1-5 (@ CC, vs NCC, vs EC, @ MU, vs WC, vs AC, @ NPU, @ NCC)
Millikin 1-5 (vs NPU, @ EC, @ NCC, vs IWU, @ AC, @ WC, vs CC, vs EC)


Seeds 3 and 4 are still very much up in the air. 8-6 might be good enough for #3...#4 could very easily come down to a tie-breaker between two 7-7 teams.

The first tie-breaker for each spot is head-to-head play, so sweeps are huge. Saturday, for example, IWU has a chance to secure a season sweep vs Carthage, which would give the Titans the tie breaker over Carthage.

There is a long way to go and the battle in the trenches for spots 3 and 4 is going to be fun to watch.  This is why I was such a proponent of a conference tournament all those years!

To play devil's advocate you could have a team like augie or elmhurst win the regular season title with a record of 10-4 and lose the conf tourney to an upstart north park (gregory will like this scenario). We then face the potential of not having our best regular season team in the tourney and getting fewer teams because of cannibalism. I am sure this was all hashed over a couple hundred pages ago in the tourney debate last year. In any case, this is the arguement of Coach Harris on why he is against the conf tourney I believe.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

ah the joy of CCIW chat - my last post until after Saturday's game - i promise.

Trost, and a lady, and about 12-year old son of someone were sitting practically in the lobby of the gym.  They were at the end of the North Central bench in the 2nd and 3rd row.  The nearest Elmhurst fan was AD Paul Krohn who wanders around the whole game, the nearest NC fan was about 25 feet away, five or six rows higher.

I don't know who coach Trost was or was not rooting for, or why he was wearing a Lewis warmup jersey.

but what the heck does it matter ............................

MW

Maybe he just wanted to enjoy a good D3 basketball game - which this one was.

At my advanced age and onset of elderly brain farts and other ailments its nice to be recognized and both Trost and Paul Krohn said hi, which I really appreciated.

[79jaybird]

Usee, good point about EC losing @ Wheaton, however to defend EC.. these Jays aren't tournament conditioned yet.  Now I hope I can talk to you in a few weeks and say that Elmhurst is an NCAA Tournament conditioned team, but they aren't quite there yet.  Still some big games ahead of them.  5-1  so 8 big games left.  
So here's something I was thinking about at the Elmhurst game.  Is it more appealing to win the CCIW?  or Win the CCIW Conference Tournament?
I know the goal is to win the CCIW, but winning the tournament gives you the NCAA AQ.  So what is more appealing?  
One could theoretically win the CCIW, lose in the CCIW Tournament, and then miss out on the NCAA's.

[AndOne]

Trost, and a lady, and about 12-year old son of someone were sitting practically in the lobby of the gym.  They were at the end of the North Central bench in the 2nd and 3rd row.  The nearest Elmhurst fan was AD Paul Krohn who wanders around the whole game, the nearest NC fan was about 25 feet away, five or six rows higher.

The about 12 year old son of SOMEONE is Todd & Julie Raridon's youngest son, 10 yr old Connor.

[AndOne]

Usee, good point about EC losing @ Wheaton, however to defend EC.. these Jays aren't tournament conditioned yet.  Now I hope I can talk to you in a few weeks and say that Elmhurst is an NCAA Tournament conditioned team, but they aren't quite there yet.  Still some big games ahead of them.  5-1  so 8 big games left. 
So here's something I was thinking about at the Elmhurst game.  Is it more appealing to win the CCIW?  or Win the CCIW Conference Tournament?
I know the goal is to win the CCIW, but winning the tournament gives you the NCAA AQ.  So what is more appealing? 
One could theoretically win the CCIW, lose in the CCIW Tournament, and then miss out on the NCAA's.

To answer the question of whether its better to win the regular season or the CCIW tourney, we need only to look at last year.

Augie won the regular season. Their reward was to host not one, but the first 2 games of the national tourney, beginning with a team that had only a 15-13 record.

North Central won the inaugural conference tourney. Their reward was to get sent on a 404 mile, 7 hour bus ride to Minnesota.

So much for how important the conference tourney is other than the automatic bid. I'll take the regular season championship.

As far as the regular season champ not winning the conference tourney and then not being selected for the national tourney---it ain't gonna happen. The CCIW has too long and strong a reputation for its regular season winner not be be selected.

[OurHouse]

I don't know which side of the damn building is considered the "Elmhurst side."
All I know is Trost was sitting with Julie Raridon right behind the NCC bench. If thats the Elmhurst side then so be it.

Also, the statement that "if Trost was still going to support any CCIW school, it would obviously be IWU" is a little silly. Why would he support a school where many of the influential alums who control the $ were lobbying to get rid of him? 

Also, if he was supporting IWU, why would he be continuing any kind of friendship with Raridon and NCC when former Wesleyan player Teddy Tolliver recently transferred to NCC. How much sense does that make?   

Teddy Toliver? Have you ever seen him play? OMG .... he cannot play in the CCIW - he is terrible!!!! Who cares about him anyway     

[79jaybird]

And One, I am curious and just want to know, a you a former Basketball player at North Central?  I played FB and Baseball at Elmhurst and was just the mascot for Basketball.

[Late nite]

I agree with your assessment of the first game---Augie underestimated the talent and depth of Elmhurst (over-confidence?)---They won't make that mistake again

"actually Trost was wearing red in support of NC"...
Then how come he was sitting on the Elmhurst side of the building

Well, the Raridon fiasco is done and overwith and I think he will reconsider his actions next time a situation like this presents itself.
Late Nite-- If this Augie team is a tournament tested group then how come they didn't show that Tournament toughness at Elmhurst?
I agree this is a talented Augie team and (like Elmhurst) has some great players that will shine in the NCAA's, but they still have to execute and play.  I didn't see that execution in the Augie/EC game at Elmhurst.

[coebball70]

Usee, thanks I did not know that.  All is forgiven.  
Yes I was at the game, and yes I forgot about the time.
Mr. Krumtinger and I were discussing after the game about the CCIW Tournament.  I think he has a good point that this year, would be a great example of why we both agree that the CCIW Tourney should have all 8 teams in.  Could you imagine if all 8 schools were participating this year?  I mean even Millikin who is struggling this year to get CCIW wins, is still capable of beating anybody, any given night.

This is the WAY it should be.  All CCIW teams make the conference tourney with proper seeding based on the season's record.  The question is 'does this board have enough clout' to make it happen.  With just 4 teams in the playoffs, there are going to be some really good D3 clubs ending the season too early.

Just hope you don't draw Aurora Univ. in the first round.

[ecdubb420]

Good to see trost.  First basketball coach I really got to see up close and personal back in the early 90's while coaching some very entertaining EC teams. 
I'm still upset that the EC students didn't put up the banner "At least Trost left us for DI" for the IWU game, but I guess it would have just taken away from the valuable drinking time.

Game notes
Strzemp didn't even warm up coming out of halftime.  No official word, but I'm thinking (like I've been saying all year), don't expect much out of him.

Chris Childs played 9 minutes and scored 5 points after putting up an air-ball on his first shot.  This was his first playing time in the CCIW and Scherer attributed this to him not being ready to contribute on defense.  Childs played a zone all throughout high-school.

Hintzsche played his worst game of the year.  If the refs were calling the game in favor of NCC, they must have thought Hintzsche was wearing the cardinal. 

Brian Lee has lost his shot.  He really lost it in the second half of the NP game, but it has continued over the last two games.  His outside shots have not been close.  Look for him to continue to penetrate and work to score from in the lane. 
On a related note, teams continue to bite on Pat Bacon's outside shot despite the fact that he is struggling from that very place. He has a great pump fake and that opens up the floor for him to get into the lane and cause trouble.

Ryan Burks is reminding me more and more of chris martin with every game he plays (offensively speaking).  He is starting to get a bit of a swagger and loves to get the crowd and his teammates going.   This is a kid who is a #1 option on most teams in D3.

Sure the big men of EC may have been outscored, but they dominated on the boards and gave NCC very few second chance opportunities.

Drennan and Walton could not be stopped off the dribble in the first half.  For some reason EC was playing in their face and basically challenging them to drive.  Big mistake, however nice adjustments made in the second half not allowing that to happen.

If EC could run an effective zone they could have killed the Cardinals.  With the lack of outside shooters, i'd recommend teams throwing a zone on NCC.

I'm looking for some posts i made about simmons last year.  I hope you will enjoy them when found.  Well said DS, it is a damn shame seeing him blow all that talent. 

[augiefan]

Since Elmhurst was undefeated after the opening game of the season and playing at home, I doubt Augie overestimated them in that first game. Elmhurst just happens to be a great team this year. The underestimating of an opponent probably occurred for Augie in last night's game. I think it's probably a few of the Augie guys were looking ahead to Saturdays game and were suddenly in a fight for their lives.

I'm not sure that Augie is all that tournament tested as there two top players from last year Harrigan and McAdmas-Thornton both graduated. This year Dain S. and Wessels have had to assume the leadership roles, which they are adapting to very well. It would be good to get Rorer back by conference tourney time, but apparently that's not looking too promising.

[petemcb]

I don't know which side of the damn building is considered the "Elmhurst side."
All I know is Trost was sitting with Julie Raridon right behind the NCC bench. If thats the Elmhurst side then so be it.

Also, the statement that "if Trost was still going to support any CCIW school, it would obviously be IWU" is a little silly. Why would he support a school where many of the influential alums who control the $ were lobbying to get rid of him? 

Also, if he was supporting IWU, why would he be continuing any kind of friendship with Raridon and NCC when former Wesleyan player Teddy Tolliver recently transferred to NCC. How much sense does that make?   

Teddy Toliver? Have you ever seen him play? OMG .... he cannot play in the CCIW - he is terrible!!!! Who cares about him anyway     

Would that make him the second best player on Wheaton's roster full of "garbage" players?