MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[tjcummingsfan]

While I don't necessarily agree with the way he presented it, I don't think what ecdub said was that terrible a thing.  It can be very easy to tell by watching a player on the court if he is a "headcase."  I can't comment particularly on Simmons, because he didn't show it when he came to the Crackerbox, but I've heard from people who have watched him play that he can easily get out of a game mentally, and blow up. 

The part I didn't like was the enjoying watching Simmons fail.  The thing is, I think any of us hopes that the star player (especially if that player is passionate, and at times a "headcase") of our rival team, won't do as well.  Being a North Park fan, I would very much enjoy it if Raymond didn't do well next season, especially when he plays North Park... but that's not anything more than me wanting the best for the Park (and the worst for the Thunder) as any good fan would. 

[Hoosier Titan]

I think my last post on this board was to take exception to the use of the "garbage" word, along with almost everyone else. 

There's no question that Anthony Simmons has been a puzzlement and, often, a frustration to the rest of the CCIW--and perhaps to his own team.  Knowing that he's playing through pain, however, has taken away any thoughts I might have had of calling him a "headcase." 

I agree that ecdubb owes Simmons an apology.  While I can understand what he might have been trying to say, I like to think that supporters of D3 athletics can applaud great effort by athletes on all teams--the practice players and the superstars (even when the effort involves just getting up and down the court).

AndOne and Greg, you have each been eloquent in your own way.  Thanks for speaking out.

[tjcummingsfan]

AndOne, and Hoosier,

I'm just curious what you think that apology would look like.  ECdub acknowledged that Simmons is playing through pain.  What exactly do you think is owed? 

[AndOne]

tj-------

Certainly you can't equate the fact that ecdubb acknowledged Anthony is playing with pain as an apology! Do you think the "acknowledgement" then gives license to use any derogatory term he chooses to? Think again! 

If I said "tj is playing in pain, but he is still a headcase and a piece of garbage" would you consider that an apology? I think not! 

As to what form the apology takes, I'll leave that up to ecdubb. He can do it on here, on the air tonight, or in both forms if he is feeling in a particularly classy mood.   

[Hoosier Titan]

Lets just hope that this is the last time I ever get to see Simmons in a uniform as his attitude is always good for at least one, "this type of player is what gives basketball a bad name" rant that I seem to make everytime calling one of his games.
I know he's been battling an injury all season, but I'm amazed more attention hasn't been made to this player who in the eyes of most people was a no-brainer 1st team All-CCIW performer (and preseason 2nd team All America).  I enjoy his poor performances for several reasons.  1) It shows that he is a headcase who was never albe to live up to his potential 2) will likely prove to Raridon never to recruit a player with that attitude 3) has let everyone in the conference know that Dan Walton is clearly the best player on that team.

Then again, I hope that Simmons drops 35 on Augie this Saturday and gives the EC faithful a chance to root the Bluejays towards a CCIW crown.

tj,

I had to go back and look at the original post, quoted above, to answer your question.  Acknowledging that Simmons is playing hurt makes the comments even worse than if ecdubb were ignorant of his injury.  Then, turning around and hoping that Simmons helps Elmhurst (by scoring a lot against Augustana) just indicates that Elmhurst winning is more important to ecdubb than anything else.  "This type of player [What type?  One who plays through pain?] is what gives basketball a bad name." 

I don't necessarily think that an on-air apology is the best idea--it would spread the original thoughts to people who don't read these boards.  I actually think the apology is due to those who value sportsmanship as much as to Anthony Simmons personally (I certainly hope that players are not reading these boards!).  An acknowledgement here that the original post was out of line would be fine with me, although I would hope that ecdubb would think twice about "rants" on "that type of player" on air.

Last Saturday Wheaton and IWU played a terrific game that had a one point margin with a couple of minutes to go.  Much has been said about Kent Raymond's heroics, and all of it is deserved.  But there were lots of other good to great performances.  Some played hurt, and couldn't do everything they could have done if healthy.  Everyone played hard.  Less than five minutes after the end of the game, one of the Titan starters walked over to me and said "Do you BELIEVE that guy?  Isn't he AMAZING?"  No hard feelings.  It seems to me that is what college (especially D3) athletics should be about.

[tjcummingsfan]

tj-------

Certainly you can't equate the fact that ecdubb acknowledged Anthony is playing with pain as an apology! Do you think the "acknowledgement" then gives license to use any derogatory term he chooses to? Think again! 

If I said "tj is playing in pain, but he is still a headcase and a piece of garbage" would you consider that an apology? I think not! 

As to what form the apology takes, I'll leave that up to ecdubb. He can do it on here, on the air tonight, or in both forms if he is feeling in a particularly classy mood.  

Not an apology, no, and to be fair, he didn't call Simmons garbage, just a headcase, they are very different. 

I guess I'm just not sure what people think is owed to Simmons here.  Shouldn't ECdub have the right to his opinion?  If he's seen Simmons play, he has something on which to draw some conclusions.

Calling a player garbage is out of line, calling someone a headcase is different.  Sure its still a matter of opinion, but something that can be observed. 

[Late nite]

What a hypocrite!---How is calling someone a head case any different from calling a player soft or a ballhog, as you have done in the past---In both cases, you are questioning the character of the individuals---Have you apologized to the the two players that you labeled??---That's what I thought

Labeling a player a "headcase" and saying you would like him to basically fall flat on his face one night and shine the next night sure sounds like someone who likes it both ways.       

That was good AndOne! 

Thank you cardinalpride---------------
I was just working with the material given to me.

When ecdubb holds himself up as a "sportscaster" I expect him to have a certain amount of personal bias and favoritism toward his team. However, we should also rightfully hold members of the broadcast communication field to a standard of unquestioned sportsmanship and a sense of fair play. To label and call a young man, whom he doesn't even know and probably has never even spoken to, a "headcase" is to utterly and completely disregard the tenants of those concepts of sportsmanship and fair play that are part of the foundation of the industry/profession that ecdubb holds himself out to be an active member of.

Anthony Simmons plays at a high level despite the continuing pain caused by a chip fracture (the ortho surgeon's definition of his injury) which resulted in a bone chip off his ankle continuing to float in his heel. In addition, Anthony has also overcome other challenges as he strives to pursue and reach his goals both as a student and an athlete. He studies and plays under the pressure of continuing issues which are nobody's business but his own.

All of us who regularly post on this board are eminently aware of the recent series of incidents where some Wheaton and other schools student-athletes were referred to as "garbage." We rose together in almost unanimous condemnation of that reference, and I trust the vast majority of us were hopeful that we would have no further incidents involving "garbage" in any way, shape, or form. Alas, ecdubb420 has dashed those hopes by spewing forth with his own brand of "garbage" which has no place in the description of the performance of neither Mr. Simmons nor any other student-athlete.

I think ecdubb420 owes Anthony an apology. His unique position of that of a "sportscaster" affords him the perfect medium. If he is calling the North Central-Elmhurst game this evening, I submit that would be the perfect time and place for him to step up and do the right thing.    

[AndOne]

Late--

The player I called "soft" is a player I have also praised. My thinking, was that he could be even a better, more formidable  player if he played a little tougher. My opinion was echoed by several posters. The proof is on the board. Also, I made reference to his play only---not his personality. I do think there is a difference. The player I called a ballhog was based on the fact that he takes a very high number of shots in relationship to minutes played. I also told you in a previous post that there was another incident I and many other people witnessed last year involving the same player that involved perhaps the poorest example of sportsmanship I have witnessed in a couple of years, but that I didn't give any further details in an attempt to spare the young man any further embarassment over the incident---quite a bit different than to go on the radio and attack someone by labeling him a "headcase"   

[79jaybird]

Wow, looks like there have been some major shots being tossed back and forth.  Whew!
I am sick of shoveling!!!  I think we (Mt. Prospect, IL) received 7-8 inches of snow! combined with the 2-4 inches the day before.  There is at least a foot of snow on the ground. I know, I know, that doesn't compare to what is happening up the Northeast Coast. 
Hopefully everybody is safe and keeping warm as it supposed to get cold (- 0) again.
As for the games tonight.  I disagree with an earlier poster saying that the Wheaton/Millikin game is going to be dull and boring.  Just ask Elmhurst, North Park, and some of the other CCIW Teams that were in a dogfight with the Big Blue, they will tell you that Millikin is NOT a pushover.
AndOne, Ruch, Michael, and Hitzsche have been 3 workhorses inside for the Bluejays.  Ruch obviously is their go to guy and gets the points, which is visible to everybody.  What people don't always see is how valuable Michael and Hitzsche are at rebounding, posting up, and finding the open guys (Burks/Lee/etc.) outside.
Funny you mention "I hope we don't have Jerry" as a referee.  There are a couple of officials that are known to be a little "off" sometimes, but North Central did not lose the game at Elmhurst because of the officials.

[NCC_alum62]

Simmons came in as both a FB and BB recruit for NCC (he dropped FB after his freshman year) I think he's a heck of a player and playing with any kind of foot injury in a game where you run and move your feet the entire time you're on the court should give us pause to the fact that Simmons has played against alot of adversity without any personal issues. He is a very good athlete and he must have a better attitude than most to keep playing in pain.

[ecdubb420]

The recent post was to indicate that from what I have seen over the past four years, Simmons has displayed the worst sportsmanship I have covered in the CCIW.  After the first games, I was thinking he may just be going through a bad stretch, but the constant complaints and multiple t's indicate that the ref's are seeing the same thing as me.  As far as I can remember maybe two or three other players have earned a T in the games I've seen over the past four seasons (almost 100 games), and Simmons has two in six games.  Another key point of his post was to emphasize what I have thought for the past several years, that Daniel Walton was not receiving the credit that he deserved.  Unfortunately it took Simmons struggles for many people to realize that. 
I have always said that if and when Simmons proves me wrong, I would give him credit where credit is due, but that has not happened.  Tonight may be that night, I certainly know that he has it in him and will have no problems if that happens.
In regards to the recruitment, I can only imagine the thoughts that go through Raridon's head everytime Simmons has an outburst.  I know he didn't recruit Simmons, but was indicating that Raridon will probably not like to have a player who provides these antics.
As for the "that type of player gives basketball players a bad name" is in response to the fans (of EC and beyond) who really dislike the attitude of Simmons and other players.  Simply, re-interating what I have heard from CCIW fans. 
I applaud Simmons for playing in pain as that shows a ton about his determination and dedication to the game, however that does not give him the go-ahead to act the way he acts on the court.  If this wasn't something I'd been seening him do for years, I could chalk it up to frustration over being injured, but that is not the case unless he's been battling injuries all along or something I don't even know about.
The passion on this page lets me know that people listen, people care, and that people like saying what is on their minds. 

[Late nite]

AndOne

I vowed to myself a couple weeks ago that I would not respond again to any of your posts, but some of the opinions that you throw out there (and there are many) just won't allow me to do that---I feel the need to respond just as you felt the need to respond to ecdubb's opinion---In both cases, you formed and voiced your opinions through observation without the benefit of knowing the players, just like ecdubb---Nothing wrong with that as long as you also respect the opinion of others

Late--

The player I called "soft" is a player I have also praised. My thinking, was that he could be even a better, more formidable  player if he played a little tougher. My opinion was echoed by several posters. The proof is on the board. Also, I made reference to his play only---not his personality. I do think there is a difference. The player I called a ballhog was based on the fact that he takes a very high number of shots in relationship to minutes played. I also told you in a previous post that there was another incident I and many other people witnessed last year involving the same player that involved perhaps the poorest example of sportsmanship I have witnessed in a couple of years, but that I didn't give any further details in an attempt to spare the young man any further embarassment over the incident---quite a bit different than to go on the radio and attack someone by labeling him a "headcase"  

[tjcummingsfan]

Late--

The player I called "soft" is a player I have also praised. My thinking, was that he could be even a better, more formidable  player if he played a little tougher. My opinion was echoed by several posters. The proof is on the board. Also, I made reference to his play only---not his personality. I do think there is a difference. The player I called a ballhog was based on the fact that he takes a very high number of shots in relationship to minutes played. I also told you in a previous post that there was another incident I and many other people witnessed last year involving the same player that involved perhaps the poorest example of sportsmanship I have witnessed in a couple of years, but that I didn't give any further details in an attempt to spare the young man any further embarassment over the incident---quite a bit different than to go on the radio and attack someone by labeling him a "headcase"  

I agree with Late nite, if you you're going to criticize people for something, make sure you haven't done the same.  And personality on the court, I believe, is part the play, its there for everyone to see, and take from what the will.

[Jim Matson]

Looks like our newer posters have a lot of energy these days.

This is not an original thought, but I think Augie and Elmhurst are going to have tough games tonight.  I certainly wouldn't be looking forward to playing Wesleyan on senior night - especially in a season that hasn't gone too well for the Titans.  This smells a lot like an upset waiting to happen.

Elmhurst playing in Naperville could also be a set up for a mugging.  I still think that North Central can be a tough place to play just becuase of location of the court in the fieldhouse.  And then Elmhurst is playing the most unpredicatable team in the conference.  So you are chasing Augie and playing a hostile North Central team looking for a place in the Tourney....hmmm, could be a really good game to watch!

I think Augie is a better team than is Wesleyan and on any given night should beat the Titans by 20.  I also happen to think that the Bluejays are in the same boat.  But I love the competitiveness of the CCIW and this is the time in the season when we see the unexpected happen.

[diehardfan]

From the Wheaton BB website: "The men's basketball game between Wheaton and Millikin scheduled for Wednesday Feb. 14 has been postponed due to a winter storm in Illinois. The game has been re-scheduled for Thursday Feb. 15 at 7:30 PM."

The women's game was moved to Thursday too.

I would assume they aren't the only CCIW school making changes?