MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Wow, where to start on this one. 85-81, North Central. I'm sure there will be plenty of back and forth over the last call, but I'll save my comments for later.

North Central played a great game. Anthony Simmons (26 pts) and, especially, Brandon Smith (22) just killed the Vikes. I haven't seen a team dissect Augie's defense like that since last year's CCIW tourney loss against IWU. The Cardinals shot 70% for the game and 83% in the second half. Tough to beat that.

Actually, the Cardinals shot 88.2% (15 of17), rather than 83% in the 2nd half.
For the game they shot 71.4%, including 66.7 % on 3 pointers, and 90.5% on FTs

[AndOne]

Bottom line, North Central badly outplayed Augie for most of the game and deserved to win. That said...the last call was absolutely terrible. The Cardinal's set had completely broken down and Simmons was on the right wing about 35 feet out with two seconds left. Instead of putting up a long three (his only chance to get a shot off), he put his head down and ran over both Drew Wessels and Dain Swetalla who were planted just inside the 3-point line. He was totally out of control and it was clearly a charge. There was no time showing on the clock, but the horn hadn't sounded. Grey got a technical (he was probably more restrained than most coaches would have been) and Simmons' four free throws made the final 85-81. I've pointed out in the past when I thought Augie was the beneficiary of lousy calls. This one went against them. Oh well. Stuff happens. Hopefully they can channel their frustration over this one into next week's CCIW tourney. It'll be fun.

OK----let me get this straight-----There is almost no time left in the game. Anthony Simmons is dribbling around. In the course of so doing he runs over not one, but two Augie players. That means in the final second or 2 of a tie game, 2 of Augie's biggest starts are just standing there waiting for Anthony Simmons to come dribbling along and crash into him? 

Now what are the odds BOTH of these star players were just standing there glued to the floor as the last seconds wore down. The truth is Wessels both swiped at the ball and hit Anthony's arm (doesn't matter he wasn't shooting) and ran into Simmons, and Swetalla kinda put his hip into Anthony's hip trying to keep him from getting  closer to the basket.  The ref actually had a choice of 2 players to call the foul on. He chose Wessels over Swetalla

[AndOne]

Right now I would NOT want to play North Central, because I think they are the hottest team at this particular juncture.    I think Elmhurst's defense played better tonight. I am still cautious and worried because we turned the ball over way too much.  We would pick up a loose ball and/or force a turnover... then get too excited and jump the gun with a poor play. 
Carthage is up and coming.  2 seeds 3 teams,  1 school will be SOL.  Wow, March Madness and it's not even March yet!

Right you are 79jaybird-----

Last Sat, 2/10,  North Central defeated #15 Carthage
Last Wed NCC defeated  # 12 Elmhurst.
Sat night, NCC defeated #9 Augie

A big shoutout to the men from North Central on beating three national top 15 teams in the last week.

[AndOne]

Every poster thinks every foul at the end of every game is either "a bad call" or a "questionable call."  The refs do have a responsibility to call the game, and to call it down to the last second.  Just because we all know that refs do tend to let the boys play as the final seconds roll off, that doesn't mean a player can conveniently forget the rules just because its late in the game.  E.g. you have to be set in order to draw the charge, right?  Right.

Exactly right, Hiker.

[knarocky22]

AndOne, you are the biggest homer on this chat room.  As dansand said earlier, that last call was terrible.  Wessels didn't swipe, and neither did Swetalla.  The ref choked and made a bad call.  North Central won the game tonight.  Congrats. 

Also, you were all over Jbird last game because he said that NC was unsportsmanlike.  Well, I'll back Jbird up.  NC isn't a very graceful winner.  Popping your jerseys at the other school's student section after the game is over isn't very sportsmanlike.  It makes it very hard to root for NC.  In fact, I hope NC somehow doesn't make it into the conference tournament.  At least Wheaton and Elmhurst will either win or lose with class, unlike your beloved Cardinals.

p.s.  Augie didn't deserve to win the game tonight, so I'm not that upset about the call at the end.  I'm more upset about the way the Cardinals acted afterward, and the way AndOne feels the need to come on this board and degrade everyone.  I know it's wrong to root against a team simply because of their fans, but please, IWU, beat North Central on Wednesday so we don't have to put up with any more of AndOne's BS and Simmons's jersey popping.

Also, the call wouldn't have been as bad if Simmons would have actually known what was going on at the end of the game.  He had no clue that there was less than a second left.  He straight up lowered his shoulder and bowled over the Augie defender.  Oh well.  You win some, you lose some.  Augie is still the CCIW CHAMPIONS!!!!!!

[dansand]

Wow, where to start on this one. 85-81, North Central. I'm sure there will be plenty of back and forth over the last call, but I'll save my comments for later.

North Central played a great game. Anthony Simmons (26 pts) and, especially, Brandon Smith (22) just killed the Vikes. I haven't seen a team dissect Augie's defense like that since last year's CCIW tourney loss against IWU. The Cardinals shot 70% for the game and 83% in the second half. Tough to beat that.

Actually, the Cardinals shot 88.2% (15 of17), rather than 83% in the 2nd half.
For the game they shot 71.4%, including 66.7 % on 3 pointers, and 90.5% on FTs

AndOne,
If you check the play-by-play, they credited Joe Caricato with a 3 attempt at 2:25 of the second half. It was actually a 3 attempt by Simmons. They both wear #50 and the stat crew must've entered #50 for Augie instead of #50 for NCC. Caricato wasn't even in the game. That would make the Cardinals 30-43 (.698) for the game and 15-18 (.833) in the second half...still amazing.

I'm not surprised that you ignored the five paragraphs of my post saying NCC played great, NCC dissected Augie's defense, Augie played bad, NCC deserved to win the game, etc. and chose to dispute my description of the last play. I expected nothing less. Your inability to comprehend my shots-per-minute analysis for Pat Brusveen earlier this week shows that you're not about to let facts get in the way of objectivity. So to use the vernacular of today's young folks...whatever.

[usee]

FWIW I was listening to the ncc announcers and they seemed nothing short of shocked at the last foul call. They even said the game was over before realizing there was a foul. I wasn't there but these ncc fans were pretty surprised.

[und63]

The "LUCK" runs out on Augustana last night  They have been living on borrowed time all year.  Count the CCIW league games they have "LUCKED OUT" and won and you see their fortunes in coming games.

As to MOP, Freeman is head and shoulders over all others!  Remember, you are talking scoring, rebounding, defense, hustle, attitude, intelligence and
leadership all wrapped up in one ball player!

[Titan Q]

It didn't mean anything in terms of the CCIW standings, but the IWU/North Park game was a classic.  While the entire game was close, one just needs to look at the final 5:00 of play-by-play to see how exciting this one was:

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2007/m2-17.htm


5:10 -- Mike Ventura basket, 69-69 tie

4:47 -- 2 Zach Freeman free throws, 71-69 IWU

4:31 -- Antonio Stevens basket, 71-71 tie

4:09 -- Zach Freeman basket, 73-71 IWU

2:56 -- Nick Williams 3-pointer, 74-73 North Park

2:25 -- Andrew Freeman basket, 75-74 IWU

2:06 -- Uriah Rice 3-pointer, 77-75 North Park

1:48 -- Zach Freeman basket, 77-77 tie

1:23 -- Uriah Rice 3-pointer, 80-77 North Park

1:02 -- Andrew Freeman basket, 80-79 North Park

0:14 -- Zach Freeman tip in of Elias Washington miss, 81-80 IWU (final)


While the Freemans were the heroes for IWU down the stretch and Zach was certainly IWU's player of the game (24 pts, 8 reb, 5 assists), the Titans got a tremendous performance out of freshman Elias Washington.  Washington, recruited more to IWU out of Grayslake H.S. for track than hoops, came into this game having played 6 varsity minutes all season long.  Last night he played 21, scoring 13 points on 5-7 from the field.  Washington isn't quite a 2 and isn't quite a 3, but he is a raw talent that might have a nice future on the IWU basketball team. 

Sophomore Andrew Gilmore had a nice 2nd half.  After scoring zero points in the 1st, with 0 assists and 3 turnovers, Gilmore had 11 points in the 2nd with no turnovers.  Darius Gant also had 11 2nd half points after a rough 1st (2 pts). 

Jason Bloom registered 4 fouls in 7 minutes of action -- an average of one foul every 1:45.  This broke the previous IWU record for foul efficiency -- Cory Jones (1 per 1:46), Chris Jones (1 per 1:47). 

[Titan Q]

I give a ton of credit to everyone that played for North Park and Illinois Wesleyan last night.  You would have thought that game was for the CCIW title based on the intensity level and the effort given.  It was a game that exemplified what Division III athletics should be all about -- players playing for the love of the game.

[Titan Q]

In the 1st half last night, Zach Freeman grabbed career rebound #800.  He is now one of 3 players in Illinois Wesleyan history with 1600+ points and 800+ rebounds...

Jack Sikma (2272 pts, 1405 reb)
Greg Yess (1833 pts, 1068 reb)
Zach Freeman (1670 pts, 806 reb)


Zach is in elite company at a school that has had some great players.  I hope all IWU fans make the trip to Naperville Tuesday evening to see one of the best Titans ever play his last game.

[AndOne]

AndOne, you are the biggest homer on this chat room.  As dansand said earlier, that last call was terrible.  Wessels didn't swipe, and neither did Swetalla.  The ref choked and made a bad call.  North Central won the game tonight.  Congrats. 

Also, you were all over Jbird last game because he said that NC was unsportsmanlike.  Well, I'll back Jbird up.  NC isn't a very graceful winner.  Popping your jerseys at the other school's student section after the game is over isn't very sportsmanlike.  It makes it very hard to root for NC.  In fact, I hope NC somehow doesn't make it into the conference tournament.  At least Wheaton and Elmhurst will either win or lose with class, unlike your beloved Cardinals.

p.s.  Augie didn't deserve to win the game tonight, so I'm not that upset about the call at the end.  I'm more upset about the way the Cardinals acted afterward, and the way AndOne feels the need to come on this board and degrade everyone.  I know it's wrong to root against a team simply because of their fans, but please, IWU, beat North Central on Wednesday so we don't have to put up with any more of AndOne's BS and Simmons's jersey popping.

Also, the call wouldn't have been as bad if Simmons would have actually known what was going on at the end of the game.  He had no clue that there was less than a second left.  He straight up lowered his shoulder and bowled over the Augie defender.  Oh well.  You win some, you lose some.  Augie is still the CCIW CHAMPIONS!!!!!!

Knarocky-----

1. Thank you for calling me a homer---coming from you I take that as a compliment.

2. As Hiker Jim said---the refs have a responsibility to call the game until the final buzzer. One of the refs saw a foul and called it. I'm sure Augie didn't committ any of the other fouls they were whistled for in the game either.

3. I didn't see any jersey popping at the AC student section after the game. But I have no reason to question what you said you saw. So OK---lets say it did happen.
MY reaction to that would be that the AC student section got exactly what they deserved. Why would I say that? You conveniently left out the fact that there were several hunderd AC students clad in yellow shirts for Senior night who, when NC came on the floor for final warmups just prior to the game, let loose whith a thunderous round of "boos" INCLUDING several "FUs." Very classy. So if any jersey popping took place, maybe the student section got exactly what they earned by their actions. Ever think of it that way? I bet not. These were also many of the same students who ran after the refs cursing at them as they made their way to their locker room at the conclusion of the game. Again, very classy. So come down off your high horse about the well behaved Augie students being disrespected

4. I think you're right when you say Simmons didn't have any idea what was happening at the end of the game. Any planned play had certainly broken down. The refs still saw and called a foul.

5. Thank you for saying you hope NC doesn't even make the conference tourney. Maybe hosting the tourney will do the Vikings the same amount of good as last year when they hosted the initial conference tourney as the regular season champs, but couldn't even win a game on their home floor.

6. Congratulations to Augustana for winning its SECOND CCIW regular season conference championship IN A ROW. The CCIW is the best DIII conference in the country. To win 2 in a row is a tremendous accomplishment.

[knarocky22]

The behavior of a few of Augie's students after the game was ridiculous.  There is no excuse for following the refs like that.  That was classless.  As far as the "FUs" go, I didn't hear any of that, but you heard what you heard and I'll take your word for it.  I don't think booing the opposing team is that big of a deal, it's college basketball, it happens.  That's part of playing on the road.   

I heard from someone who works at the scorer's table that there was .01 seconds left when the foul was called.  Even if it was a foul, which I believe it was a charge anyways, I think the refs still need to know the situation in the game.  Just like refs give "star players" the benefit of the doubt most of the time, they need to know when not to blow the whistle.  If Simmons was in the act of shooting I'm sure there would be no complaints from Augie fans about the call.  However, he wasn't even looking at the basket.  The refs bailed him out.

As dansand and I both mentioned, NCC outplayed Augie for 38 minutes and deserved to win the game.  It's just too bad that a great game had to end that way. 

That being said, I shouldn't have said that I hope NCC doesn't make the conference tournament.  For that I apologize.  If they win and deserve to be there, they will be there.  It will be a great rematch if they do get in with the 4 seed.

In the conference tourney, Augie lost to the team who eventually got 3rd in the country last year.  They had already beaten them twice, and it is very difficult to beat a good, let alone a great, team 3 times.  I don't think it would have mattered where they played that game.

[AndOne]

In the 1st half last night, Zach Freeman grabbed career rebound #800.  He is now one of 3 players in Illinois Wesleyan history with 1600+ points and 800+ rebounds...

Jack Sikma (2272 pts, 1405 reb)
Greg Yess (1833 pts, 1068 reb)
Zach Freeman (1670 pts, 806 reb)


Zach is in elite company at a school that has had some great players.  I hope all IWU fans make the trip to Naperville Tuesday evening to see one of the best Titans ever play his last game.

Zach Freeman is such an outstanding player that it wouldn't be a surprise at all if he is named to the 1ST TEAM All-American squad.

[AndOne]

The behavior of a few of Augie's students after the game was ridiculous.  There is no excuse for following the refs like that.  That was classless.  As far as the "FUs" go, I didn't hear any of that, but you heard what you heard and I'll take your word for it.  I don't think booing the opposing team is that big of a deal, it's college basketball, it happens.  That's part of playing on the road.   

I heard from someone who works at the scorer's table that there was .01 seconds left when the foul was called.  Even if it was a foul, which I believe it was a charge anyways, I think the refs still need to know the situation in the game.  Just like refs give "star players" the benefit of the doubt most of the time, they need to know when not to blow the whistle.  If Simmons was in the act of shooting I'm sure there would be no complaints from Augie fans about the call.  However, he wasn't even looking at the basket.  The refs bailed him out.

As dansand and I both mentioned, NCC outplayed Augie for 38 minutes and deserved to win the game.  It's just too bad that a great game had to end that way. 

That being said, I shouldn't have said that I hope NCC doesn't make the conference tournament.  For that I apologize.  If they win and deserve to be there, they will be there.  It will be a great rematch if they do get in with the 4 seed.

In the conference tourney, Augie lost to the team who eventually got 3rd in the country last year.  They had already beaten them twice, and it is very difficult to beat a good, let alone a great, team 3 times.  I don't think it would have mattered where they played that game.

Knarocky----

I think we all say things we should't at times. I'm no exception. It comes from our interest and passion. I'm really not a bad guy and I'm sure neither are the others with who I duel here.

As far as the play--whatever had been called had certainly broken down and Anthony had no idea as to where he was on the court or what he wanted to do in that particular situation after having a fabulous game overall.

As far as the foul--I thought Anthony was fouled. Augie fans, naturally, didn't. In the first Augie/NCC game I thought Krumtinger was fouled on the last second shot. I'm sure Augie fans didn't think so. A foul was called on one paly and no call was made one---so I guess everything evens out in the end.

I agree NCC deserves to be in the conference tourney especially considering in the last 7 days they have beaten the #15, #12, and #9 teams in the country--all who had beaten NCC in their first games this year. Thats a pretty outstanding accomplishment.