MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

New regional rankings are tomorrow.

Jaybird, if you look at the vote totals each team got in the Top 25, they both lost the same amount of ground. There's nothing to gripe about here.

[coebball70]

Midwest Region
1. Augustana 19-4 19-3, 10.591
2. Washington U. 18-4 16-3, 10.556
3. Chicago 18-4 17-4, 10.350
4. Aurora 21-2 20-2, 10.476
5. Elmhurst 18-4 14-4, 9.889
6. Wheaton (Ill.) 15-7 11-6, 9.706
7. Carthage 14-8 11-7, 9.235
8. Grinnell 15-6 14-6, 9.350.

While their record is impressive, I'm not as impressed with Aurora's gaudy record, given the caliber of many of the opponents on their conference schedule.  I know this is an old, tired, and perhaps irrelevant argument, but I would be curious to see how they would fare against the rigors of a CCIW schedule. 

I tend to agree with this comment but I will say I saw first-hand Aurora University absolutely shell-shock Loras College (winner of the Iowa Conference), Millikin and North Central this year.  They are a team that will represent their weak conference well and, most likely, advance as far as any CCIW team.  And this is from a person who believes the CCIW is the best D3 basketball conference in the nation!
This year could be similar to the D3 Volleyball tournament 2 years ago when Elmhurst won the conference tournament bid, Carthage was undefeated in conference play and received an invite, and Millikin got an at-large bid and went the furthest in the tournament!  My hunch is if NCC gets in, they may end up doing the best as they are hitting on all cylinders right now.  I must close now with, Go Thunder!

[79jaybird]

Thank you Pat.  I was just curious. 

[ecdubb420]

what do people think WC, EC, CC and NCC need to get in the NCAA tournament?
I'm getting this feeling that if Augie wins the Conference Tournament we may only see one CCIW team playing for the National Championship. 
A tale of too many good teams beating each other up?  It sure seems like that may be the way the cookie crumbles.

Personally I see NCAA chances as follows:
Augie in
EC in with two wins (21-6)
WC in with wins over CC and EC, loss to Augie (18-9)
CC must win out
NCC must win out

I'd love to see three CCIW teams in the big dance, but can only see that with Augie losing in the first round (to WC or NCC), EC making the finals, and then NCC or Wheaton winning it all.

Does the Conference Tourney have a MOP? All-Tourney team? 

[ecdubb420]

PS: Congrats to Simmons and his Player of the Week award. Still amazed how Zach Freeman did not get that award this season.
Hoping Millikin play a game when scheduled, or it may be a long three days for the Jays.

[cardinalpride]

Similarly, while it now seems like a long time ago, I recall my first game of this season when U of C visited Merner Field House for an early pre-conference game against NCC.  If I remember correctly, NCC won all three periods, handily, and this was while they were still trying to figure out their guard situation, against a team that is guard-heavy and experienced.  I know it was only one game, and an early one at that, but can those more in the know please give me any kind of comparison on the CCIW vs. the UAA, particularly this season?

well, Wheaton, IWU and NCC all played U of C (USEE) this season. so you need look no further than their boxscores for a comparison. I was at the wheaton/U of C game and wheaton was in control but never pulled away and then the U of C guards got hot in the last 5 minutes and wheaton broke down on defense several times down the stretch to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. not sure about the other contests. U of C is well coached, plays hard and doesn't quit. they remind me of wheaton really.

usee, no boxscore on the U of C/NCC scrimmage.  Pete/Usee, NCC actually lost the first 20 min by 4 points, won the second and third by about 20 pts. total.  I knew then that U of C would be pretty good because they got their fair share of open looks from 3.  They just didn't knock them down during the 2nd and 3rd 20 min.

[BRLHSFAN]

ecdubb, not calling for any bad weather around here that I know of! LOL  Maybe rain and tonight it's a little foggy, but that's it.  Looks like I'll be stuck listening on the internet though because my daughter has to work and I have a post prom meeting and since we only have 1 car, I have to get her there and should do the meeting. 

[OurHouse]

Saturday night's Titans @ Vikings tilt at the crackerbox was certainly exciting, but it was a terrible game to watch from an aesthetic point of view. While Bob raved about the intensity of the contest -- and, yes, it certainly was intense -- I was left thinking that neither team did much to grace the considerable basketball legacies of their respective schools.

The first half, especially, looked like two middle school teams trying to make a go of it on the court after their cafeterias had each served Meatloaf Surprise during lunch period. NPU made a whole raft of unforced turnovers and, for some inexplicable reason, refused to attempt to penetrate Wesleyan's athletically-challenged perimeter, even after the Titans dropped their zone and the NPU long-distance jumpers stopped falling with regularity. I thought that Paul Brenegan was going to tear out his hair over the passivity of his team, especially since they're usually such a drive-first, ask-questions-later outfit. But, to be fair, the motion offense was working well enough for the Vikes to get some nice looks from the outside. Still, you can't go away from your strength that much, and NPU's strength is in dribble penetration, not outside shooting.

Wesleyan? They simply looked like a shell of the Titans teams that in the past were as often as not the most feared teams in the CCIW. It was as if Zach Freeman had been tacked onto some other CCIW school's JV squad.

The second half was equally dreadful, but for a completely different reason: Neither team could stop the other if their lives had depended upon it. The Titans shot 64.7% from the field in the second stanza, the Vikes shot 61.3%. It wasn't basketball, it was a full-court game of H-O-R-S-E. Now, I know that the vast majority of basketball fans prefer lots of scoring to tough defense, and most players are the same way. Still, even if you're an offense-oriented fan, unless you think the NBA All-Star game is good basketball you must believe that there has to be some defense played in a basketball game, right? Well, you wouldn't have seen any of it on display on Saturday night. Not even bare minimum. The D was so bad on both sides that it all came down to whichever team got the ball into the basket last, and it happened to be Illinois Wesleyan. But give NPU a few more seconds, and they would've won the game. Both defenses were that bad.

And that ain't right, folks. Basketball isn't just about scoring in crunch time. It's also about getting stops in crunch time. Bob's posted chronicle of the back-and-forth scoring at the end of Saturday's game is as much of an indictment of the ineptitude of the two teams' defense as it is a testimony of the see-saw excitement in the gym.

Paul Brenegan called a timeout with 3:48 left, and the first words out of his mouth were, "They've scored 21 times on 25 possessions in this half! When are you going to start playing defense?!" The Vikings never did; Wesleyan ended up scoring on 25 of their 30 possessions in the second half.

And it wasn't all Zach Freeman, either -- not by a longshot. Everyone knew he'd get his points, especially without the bulk and physicality of Stephano Jones to get in his way, and he only ended up topping his CCIW average by two points. Andrew Gilmore and Darius Gant each scored 11 in the second half, and while they both deserve a lot of credit for how well they played at the east end of the gym over the final twenty minutes, it's not as though the Vikings were making it tough on them.

I knew coming into the game that Elias Washington would be a factor for Wesleyan, simply because of his track background. The Titans seriously needed someone athletic on the perimeter to counteract NPU's superior speed and quickness, and he was the best guy they had available. What surprised me was how well he rose to the challenge in spite of his relative lack of experience. I don't know how well he fits into Ron Rose's future plans, but given NPU's roster orientation I have to think that there's at least two games a year in which Washington will get a lot of tick for the Titans until he graduates.

Your post is pathetic - you have to ask yourself, "do I really know what I'm talking about when I make long stupid posts that mean nothing?" That NPU gym is rediculous - instead of posting all day you should start a fund raising program for a new gym (you can keep the scoreboards) - geeeeeeeeesh

[John Gleich]

...rediculous [sic]...

That about says it all...

[tjcummingsfan]

What's rediculous about it?  The fact that it gets loud and roudy, that in a gorup of 10 guys we have the most entertaining fans in the conference, or the fact that there are 5 National Championship banners hanging from the ceiling?  I don't think you need anything else to make a place worth playing in.

[John Gleich]

I wasn't so much speaking of the Crackerbox (as I've not yet been) but rather to OurHouse's choice of words...

[tjcummingsfan]

Oh yeah, sorry I should've specified by response was to OurHouse, not you Point.

[Gregory Sager]

While I think its true that the level of player in the CCIW outside of the top 1-2 is fairly even, I would argue the consistency of winning is with the teams that have experienced players and continuity of coaching. Look at IWU last year. Sr laden team with a consistency in philosophy for several years (plenty of talent helped). Look at Augie, Coach G has been stomping the sidelines for several years now and he now is in the position of "reloading" vs "rebuilding". NCC is approaching that. Wheaton's Coach Harris is the constant while the players change radically. the best teams are going to have consistency in their coaching and a steady stream of talent coming through the ranks.

In football wheaton has had the same coaching staff basically for 20+ yrs and over the past 10 or so they have consistently been winners.

In North Park I see a coach who is beginning to get the right kind of players and they are starting to figure out how to compete in a tough league. the improvement Greg reflects on is very real and logically I would expect NPU to be in the conf tourney next year. (i think they are headed in the right direction in football too after dozens of years as cellar dwellers.)

I agree with Usee's basic premise. If I can paraphrase him, I think he's saying that teams can be evaluated upon the basis of a season; programs are evaluated over a greater length of time, and the signs of progress within a program are measured not only in wins and losses but in coaching continuity, player development, improved recruitment and retention, increased competitiveness, etc.

It's in those areas that I see NPU's program improving. It's the team that fell short in a lot of ways this year, even though it was certainly a vast improvement over the last few editions of the Vikings. In other words, I like the long-term view of North Park men's basketball. The short-term view, as I said last night, left a bittersweet taste.

Gregory,

You said it better than I with less words. I agree.

That last line, in its entirety, may never have occurred before, and may never occur again.  We may be witnessing history here, folks.

Maybe. 

[Gregory Sager]

Midwest Region
1. Augustana 19-4 19-3, 10.591
2. Washington U. 18-4 16-3, 10.556
3. Chicago 18-4 17-4, 10.350
4. Aurora 21-2 20-2, 10.476
5. Elmhurst 18-4 14-4, 9.889
6. Wheaton (Ill.) 15-7 11-6, 9.706
7. Carthage 14-8 11-7, 9.235
8. Grinnell 15-6 14-6, 9.350.

While their record is impressive, I'm not as impressed with Aurora's gaudy record, given the caliber of many of the opponents on their conference schedule.  I know this is an old, tired, and perhaps irrelevant argument, but I would be curious to see how they would fare against the rigors of a CCIW schedule.  I know there's strength of schedule, or QOWI-type considerations, taken, but I still can't help but believe that teams 5, 6, and 7 as listed above have demonstrated more by putting up the records they have against significantly stronger opponents.  I'll hang up and listen for my responses.

I've seen all eight of the ranked Midwest Region teams this season, three of them (Chicago, Elmhurst, and Wheaton) at least four times apiece. Believe me, Aurora's good enough to play with anyone on this list. If they were in the CCIW, I think that right now they'd be in the thick of the race for a conference tournament bid, alongside Wheaton, Carthage, and North Central. I wouldn't pick them as the top team in the region -- if Augie's healthy, I have to go with them -- but the Spartans shouldn't be dismissed simply because they play in an inferior league.

A lot of how I'd rate these teams head-to-head would come down to matchups. Elmhurst poses more matchup problems for Aurora than the other way around; on the other hand, Chicago is an almost ideal matchup for Aurora, because the Maroons are configured so similarly to the Spartans. I'm not building up Elmhurst or tearing down Chicago by saying that; I'm just pointing out that, in a tournament situation, matchups can be as important or even more important in gauging the possible outcome as are overall talent and seasonal performance.

what do people think WC, EC, CC and NCC need to get in the NCAA tournament?
I'm getting this feeling that if Augie wins the Conference Tournament we may only see one CCIW team playing for the National Championship. 
A tale of too many good teams beating each other up?  It sure seems like that may be the way the cookie crumbles.

Personally I see NCAA chances as follows:
Augie in
EC in with two wins (21-6)
WC in with wins over CC and EC, loss to Augie (18-9)
CC must win out
NCC must win out

No, your estimate of what is required of Wheaton is incorrect. Wheaton is in the same boat as Carthage and North Central. The Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance needs to win on Wednesday, and then win the CCIW tourney, in order to get into the big dance. A loss to Augie, or to anyone else for that matter, in the CCIW tourney final will not cut it for Bill Harris's crew. Wheaton currently has a regional record of 12-7; a win over Carthage and a first-round CCIW tourney win over Elmhurst, followed by a loss to either Augie or NCC in the CCIW tourney title game, would give Wheaton a 14-8 regional record. That works out to a .636 regional winning percentage, which isn't anywhere near the ballpark as far as Pool C teams are concerned. Keep in mind that the lowest regional winning percentage posted by any of the 18 Pool C teams last year was Illinois Wesleyan's, and theirs was .714.

I'd love to see three CCIW teams in the big dance, but can only see that with Augie losing in the first round (to WC or NCC), EC making the finals, and then NCC or Wheaton winning it all.

Don't forget Carthage. If Carthage gets into the CCIW tourney with a win on Wednesday night, the Red Men will be the fourth seed, with NCC third (NCC 1-1 vs. #2 Elmhurst, Carthage 0-2 vs. #2 Elmhurst). It's perfectly conceivable that the CCIW could get three teams into the big dance by having the Red Men take the CCIW tourney with a win over Elmhurst in the final. The Bluejays would have a .739 regional winning percentage (this assumes that they beat Millikin on Wednesday, of course), and would need to have a QOWI high enough to sustain their Pool C chances in the face of the inevitable conference tourney upsets that occur across the country. Augie's pretty much guaranteed a Pool C berth even if the Doggies are defeated in the CCIW tourney's opening round.

Does the Conference Tourney have a MOP? All-Tourney team? 

No and no, but I think that they're good ideas. At minimum, it'd be great to have a CCIW tourney Outstanding Player Award.

[Gregory Sager]

I know it was only one game, and an early one at that, but can those more in the know please give me any kind of comparison on the CCIW vs. the UAA, particularly this season?

I've seen all eight CCIW teams this season, and most of the UAA teams. The CCIW is still the better league, but the UAA shouldn't be sold short. In the past the top two teams or so in that league could play with anyone, but there was a steep dropoff after that. But over the past couple of seasons the UAA has really acquired good depth; the middle of the league is now very strong as well. The UAA went 65-21 (.756) in non-conference play this season, which is actually better than the CCIW's 66-22 (.750) -- and keep in mind that this is the best non-con mark that the CCIW has ever attained. Heck, even Case impressed me when I saw them, and the Spartans haven't won a UAA game yet this season. I'm baffled as to how they've gone 4-20 thus far.

The UAA could get as many as four teams into the tourney this year (some observers even say five), and you can rest assured that they'll all be battle-tested. It's a very strong league this season by overall D3 standards.

Your post is pathetic - you have to ask yourself, "do I really know what I'm talking about when I make long stupid posts that mean nothing?" That NPU gym is rediculous - instead of posting all day you should start a fund raising program for a new gym (you can keep the scoreboards) - geeeeeeeeesh

"To be insulted by you is to be garlanded with lilies." -- Aristophanes

...rediculous [sic]...

That about says it all...

Some of the most common spelling mistakes on Posting Up are so rediculous and so ludacris that they're going to make me loose my mind!