MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[petemcb]

You also have to consider that the Carthage offense really runs solely through Steve. He does not have another AA in his starting five, so I think that Steve will probably end up with better numbers than Kent, because Wheaton is more balanced. But if Kent plays like Kent and Wheaton wins the CCIW, I think it's more of a formality than anything else.

Wheaton's offense runs through Kent Raymond every bit as much as Carthage's does through Djurickovic.  Does Wheaton have a better supporting cast?  Yes, because they have a productive low-post player in Wiele (I would take Fendley over Panner actually.).  But that doesn't mean the Thunder offense doesn't exclusively flow through Kent Raymond first.  I'd love to hear someone suggest to an opposing CCIW head coach that Wheaton's offense does not "run solely through Raymond."  Teams exclusively prepare their game plans vs Wheaton to try to contain Kent Raymond because he is absolutely the #1 focal point.

And I don't think I would trade BP for Fendley. Granted, I've only seen Fendly once. But BP is one of the best perimeter defenders in the CCIW. The biggest contribution he makes in my opinion is on the defensive end of the floor. For example, there have been two games this year (Loras and Calvin) where BP has shot rather poorly and yet the team has still won. And when he does score he usually does so in an unstoppable manner (i.e. Saturday vs. Hope).

Thunder/TQ

I believe the answer to the question of Fendley vs Panner comes down to "Exactly what are you looking for?"

Sean Fendley is a pure shooter who can likely shoot, particularly off the pass, as well as anyone in the league. He is deadly from anyplace on the floor, but is unsurpassed in hitting from the deep corners, especially from the left side. He has increased his strength tremendously since he entered the CCIW from high school. I'd say his strength has increased at about the same proportion that Andy Wiele of WC increased his. His foot speed has also increased as a by-product of his added strength, but he still can't be considered a burner. The added strength has also aided Sean as far as being able to get his shot off from even deeper than earlier in his career as well as when he is more closely defended. Defensively, he is average at best.

Ben Panner is the choice if you're looking for the better ball handler and passer/distributor of the basketball. He is quicker than Fendley, but not as strong. His quickness results in his being a better defender than Sean. He is not as consistent a shooter as Fendley. He is more of a streak shooter, cold one night and hot the next--or, as in the Wheaton game vs Hope Sat, cold one half and very hot the next. Overall, an above average shooter/scorer, but not quite in Fendley's class in that facet of the game.   

That is exactly how I would phrase the comparison between Panner and Fendley as well, AO.

I'll second that, Greg.

[thundermike11]

You also have to consider that the Carthage offense really runs solely through Steve. He does not have another AA in his starting five, so I think that Steve will probably end up with better numbers than Kent, because Wheaton is more balanced. But if Kent plays like Kent and Wheaton wins the CCIW, I think it's more of a formality than anything else.

Wheaton's offense runs through Kent Raymond every bit as much as Carthage's does through Djurickovic.  Does Wheaton have a better supporting cast?  Yes, because they have a productive low-post player in Wiele (I would take Fendley over Panner actually.).  But that doesn't mean the Thunder offense doesn't exclusively flow through Kent Raymond first.  I'd love to hear someone suggest to an opposing CCIW head coach that Wheaton's offense does not "run solely through Raymond."  Teams exclusively prepare their game plans vs Wheaton to try to contain Kent Raymond because he is absolutely the #1 focal point.

And I don't think I would trade BP for Fendley. Granted, I've only seen Fendly once. But BP is one of the best perimeter defenders in the CCIW. The biggest contribution he makes in my opinion is on the defensive end of the floor. For example, there have been two games this year (Loras and Calvin) where BP has shot rather poorly and yet the team has still won. And when he does score he usually does so in an unstoppable manner (i.e. Saturday vs. Hope).

Thunder/TQ

I believe the answer to the question of Fendley vs Panner comes down to "Exactly what are you looking for?"

Sean Fendley is a pure shooter who can likely shoot, particularly off the pass, as well as anyone in the league. He is deadly from anyplace on the floor, but is unsurpassed in hitting from the deep corners, especially from the left side. He has increased his strength tremendously since he entered the CCIW from high school. I'd say his strength has increased at about the same proportion that Andy Wiele of WC increased his. His foot speed has also increased as a by-product of his added strength, but he still can't be considered a burner. The added strength has also aided Sean as far as being able to get his shot off from even deeper than earlier in his career as well as when he is more closely defended. Defensively, he is average at best.

Ben Panner is the choice if you're looking for the better ball handler and passer/distributor of the basketball. He is quicker than Fendley, but not as strong. His quickness results in his being a better defender than Sean. He is not as consistent a shooter as Fendley. He is more of a streak shooter, cold one night and hot the next--or, as in the Wheaton game vs Hope Sat, cold one half and very hot the next. Overall, an above average shooter/scorer, but not quite in Fendley's class in that facet of the game.   

That is exactly how I would phrase the comparison between Panner and Fendley as well, AO.

I'll second that, Greg.

I will "third" it, and then say that Carthage and Wheaton both have what they need from these two players.

[markerickson]

At one point during North Park's victory over Illinois College, the Viking head coach called a play.  The players responded by vacating the territory inside the arc.  Nick Williams got the ball and made a trey.  I don't understand this play.

I also don't understand why a Carthage foe, knowing that Lil Bosko is the one man on the roster that can consistently uplift the Redmen, don't put their best defender on him, and work feverishly to deny the AA the ball.

[thundermike11]

I also don't understand why a Carthage foe, knowing that Lil Bosko is the one man on the roster that can consistently uplift the Redmen, don't put their best defender on him, and work feverishly to deny the AA the ball.

It's hard to deny him the ball because he brings it up the floor every possession and only gives it up if he doesn't get a good look, which he gets a lot of.

[April]

Add two more CCIW victories over D1 teams.  During the 1979-80 season North Park defeated Cal-Irvine 69-55 and San Diego 72-69.  It was San Diego's first season as a D1 team.

Is that University of California at San Diego, or San Diego State University? Just curious since I live out here.

At one point during North Park's victory over Illinois College, the Viking head coach called a play.  The players responded by vacating the territory inside the arc.  Nick Williams got the ball and made a trey.  I don't understand this play.

Sounds like it worked though... For some reason I got the mental image of the Grinnell players doing that baseline inbounds pass play where they keep running around in a circle at the base of the key until they break and shoot off like a star toward the arc in all directions.

Is it weird that I still am proud every time Nick Williams does something good because he was my fantastic fantasy team pick two years ago?

I also don't understand why a Carthage foe, knowing that Lil Bosko is the one man on the roster that can consistently uplift the Redmen, don't put their best defender on him, and work feverishly to deny the AA the ball.

I would be super surprised if they didn't.... that would have to be a special level of dumb I don't want to wish on any of the coaches of Carthage's opponents. I think it's more about how when a player is good enough, he can get open even when double teamed. (Coach Harris mentioned during one of the post game interviews this past weekend that Raymond was occasionally triple teamed, but it didn't seem to hurt his stats that much. )

Wheee #2!

[AndOne]

Greg Sager, Pete, & Thundermike-----

Thanks guys for the agreement and kind words.   

[79jaybird]

Elmhurst up to #7.  4 CCIW teams ranked 6 are in or receive votes, wow.  It's going to be a 14 game war of attrition. 

[omaha]

 Re: CCIW Chat
« Reply #16561 on: Today at 12:29:39 pm »   

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Quote from: omaha on Today at 09:02:01 am
Add two more CCIW victories over D1 teams.  During the 1979-80 season North Park defeated Cal-Irvine 69-55 and San Diego 72-69.  It was San Diego's first season as a D1 team.

Is that University of California at San Diego, or San Diego State University? Just curious since I live out here.

Neither--according to the USD website:

The University of San Diego, home of the Toreros, sponsors 17 NCAA Division I intercollegiate teams, and is a member of the West Coast Conference for nearly all sports.

[robberki]

Add two more CCIW victories over D1 teams.  During the 1979-80 season North Park defeated Cal-Irvine 69-55 and San Diego 72-69.  It was San Diego's first season as a D1 team.

I like the cut of your jib omaha, particularly your d3hoops screenname.

[aceon2]

While we are adding victories to the CCIW. Lets add two more non conference victories as NCC defeated Lake Forest tonight 76-40 and Millikin moved to 7-0 by beating Blackburn 81-56.  Barringer and Drennan led the way for NCC with 25 and 19 respectively.  Millikin looks to have balanced scoring led by Burton with 23, Warren with 14, and Mitchell with 13.   

[Gregory Sager]

While we are adding victories to the CCIW. Lets add two more non conference victories as NCC defeated Lake Forest tonight 76-40 and Millikin moved to 7-0 by beating Blackburn 81-56.  Barringer and Drennan led the way for NCC with 25 and 19 respectively.  Millikin looks to have balanced scoring led by Burton with 23, Warren with 14, and Mitchell with 13.

Here's the boxes:

http://www.cciw.org/winter_bball_m/GameHTML_0809/MBK06.HTM

http://www.cciw.org/winter_bball_m/GameHTML_0809/MIL07.HTM

Add two more CCIW victories over D1 teams.  During the 1979-80 season North Park defeated Cal-Irvine 69-55 and San Diego 72-69.  It was San Diego's first season as a D1 team.

I thought that UC-Irvine and USD were still D2 programs at that point, but I defer to you on this one, JP, since you're always on top of stuff like this.

OK, so we're now up to eight CCIW wins over D1 teams. North Park has three, and Augustana, Carthage, Elmhurst, Illinois Wesleyan, and Millikin have one apiece. Makes that missed Andy Wiele trey at the buzzer against Northwestern sting even more, doesn't it?

At one point during North Park's victory over Illinois College, the Viking head coach called a play.  The players responded by vacating the territory inside the arc.  Nick Williams got the ball and made a trey.  I don't understand this play.

It was supposed to be an iso play. When the other team has a defender guarding your star player who is incapable of handling him one-on-one, you clear out your other players (so that none of the other defenders can help the primary defender), put the ball in your star's hands, and let him drive to the basket for an easy deuce. Iso is short for "isolation", because you're isolating that particular one-on-one matchup from the other eight players on the floor. Nick elected to take a 21-foot jumper instead, which is exactly what you're not supposed to do when your coach runs an iso for you, but since he knocked it down I don't think that there were a lot of complaints directed his way.

[OurHouse]

I agree 100%, but I do think this group has a chance to become just as good of a team in time.  We'll see.

You are kidding, right?

[AndOne]

North Central obliterated Lake Forest tonight in the "hanger" in Naperville by a score of 76-40. While hard to believe, the final 36 point difference could have easily been 45-50 as NCC began substituting liberally with about 8 minutes remaining and up by 43. The starting 5 for Lake Forest scored a total of 19 points. At the half, Reid Barringer had outscored Lake Forest 23-18. Barringer, who seemingly couldn't miss in the first half, finished with 25 on 10/17 shooting, including 5 treys. Chris Drennan added 19 points on 8/10 FG shooting and 3/3 from the line. Matt Rogers contributed 15 more, going 6/9 and 3/4. Playing against a team their own size, North Central out rebounded LFC by a 42-31 margin highlighted by Josh Corso pulling down 8 boards in 10 minutes of action. "Big Work" then transformed himself into the new PG on a couple of occasions, streaking down the court as leed man on the break.

The NCC defense continued to sparkle. This has been an area the NC coaching staff has emphasized almost from the 1st day of practice, and after putting in many grueling hours the Cardinals have seemed to grasp the concepts being taught by the NC coaches. Much of the increased defensive understanding has been gained during the famed "Buhrandt drills" led by ass't coach Bruce Buhrandt. The Cards increased understanding and performance is evidenced by the fact that they have forced their opponents into 131 turnovers in their first 6 games, an average of almost 22 opponents turnovers per game.   

[Dennis_Prikkel]

JP & GS

win over UC-Irvine was definitely a D1 victory.

San Diego, I seem to reccollect, was a D3 ranked team at the time (I want to say 6th).

Anyway you slice those road victories they were significant and all the same trip.

beating D1 UC-Irvine,
nationally ranked UC-San Diego,
and two nights later beating periennal D2 power Puget Sound, when they were ranked 2nd in D2.

dgp

[Dennis_Prikkel]

JP & GS

win over UC-Irvine was definitely a D1 victory.

San Diego, I seem to reccollect, was a D3 ranked team at the time (I want to say 6th).

Anyway you slice those road victories they were significant and all the same trip.

beating D1 UC-Irvine,
nationally ranked UC-San Diego,
and two nights later beating periennal D2 power Puget Sound, when they were ranked 2nd in D2.
dgp

well - i was wrong - jp was right
according to the USD media guide, 1979-80 was their first year in D1 and they were 2 and 2 when they faced North Park and lost 72-69.

dgp