MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

CCIW OVERALL:    53-11 (.828)

CCIW team heavy favorite
1 Millikin @ Knox, 12/18
2 Augustana @ Beloit, 12/19
3 Illinois Wesleyan vs Chicago, 12/19
4 Elmhurst vs Benedictine, 12/19
5 Wheaton vs Mount St. Joseph, 12/29 (neutral)
6 Wheaton vs Wittenberg or Taylor, 12/30 (@ Witt)
7 Augustana vs Coe, 12/30
8 Wheaton @ Grinnell, 1/3
9 Illinois Wesleyan vs Illinois College, 1/3
10 Carthage vs Trinity International, 1/5

CCIW team favorite
1 North Park vs Concordia (WI), 12/18
2 North Central vs McMurry, 12/18 (neutral)
3 North Central vs Mary Washington, 12/20 (neutral)
4 North Central @ Otterbein, 12/27
5 North Central vs Baldwin-Wallace or Thomas More, 12/28 (neutral)
6 Illinois Wesleyan vs St. Xavier, 12/29 (neutral)
7 Carthage vs St. Norbert or St. Scholastica, 12/30 (neutral)
8 Elmhurst @ Anderson, 1/3
9 Millikin vs York (NY), 1/3 (neutral)

CCIW team underdog
1 Elmhurst vs Wash U, 12/20
2 Carthage vs UW-Platteville, 12/29 (neutral)
3 IWU @ Northwood U., 12/30 (if IWU beats SXU)
4 North Park @ Valparaiso, 12/30
5 Millikin @ Christopher Newport, 1/4


10-0 in the first group, 0-5 in the last, and 6-3 in the middle would be 69-19 (.784).

[Titan Q]

It appears they did what they had to in order to win on the road, but didn't look like the #15 team in so doing.

Absolutely.  And I'd much rather have them not look like the #15 team in the nation and win than look like #15 and lose (the case vs Wash U).  Last night's game was significant because it was "in-region"...it was a big win.

As Scott Trost used to always say, "Never apologize for a win."

[Gregory Sager]

You would think the #15 team in the country would be crushing 2-6 Hanover.

Kind of like you would think Augustana would crush 0-9 Chicago?

I don't think there is any correlation at all. Chicago was supposed to be a good team, AND it was still early in the season. Hanover wasn't supposed to be good, and has had time to live up (or down) to expectations.

Chicago had lost to Edgewood and Illinois Tech at home before that Augie game, and the Vikings were ranked #2 in the nation at the time.  And Augie had to hit a shot in the closing seconds to win by 1.  Whether it is a "correalation" or not, I'd just simply say that most would agree that sometimes a favored team has a tough time winning on the road.  That happens at all levels of basketball.

In the non-conference, there are all kinds of strange results that happen that you can't make heads or tails out of.  IWU took #1 Wash U to the final minutes two games ago...and then struggled to beat Hanover tonight.  Just recently, North Park almost got knocked off by Knox.  You can say Team X is supposed to "crush" Team Y on paper, but then you can also make a list of all kinds of comparative scores that just don't add up.

OK, Bob, then please keep this in mind the next time you're tempted to post something like this tidbit from Monday night:

Knox before tonight...

at Dubuque •  L, 66-52     
Cornell •  L, 65-47     
at Coe •  L, 74-64     
at Lawrence * •  L, 81-70     
at Beloit * •  L, 83-68     
at Grinnell * •  L, 133-80     
at Augustana •  L, 72-54 

Turnabout is fair play. I could've launched into excuse-making mode on Monday night with, "I do know that North Park is a young team that's missing several key players, and it had to drive 3 1/2 hours to western Illinois through the snow this afternoon to play a young Knox team, yadda yadda yadda." I didn't. I said that NPU played like crap, that the Vikes would have to play much better to beat Concordia (WI) in Thursday's game, and left it at that. As Viking Blue and Dennis P. said, "A win is a win is a win." Moreover, I haven't gone out of my way to draw attention to any other CCIW team's near slip-ups against inferior teams; in fact, after I got back from the Ratner Center the night of the Augie @ Chicago game I was the one who said that if Augie had Wessels, the game against Chicago wouldn't have gone down to the wire. I believe in telling it like it is, but at the same time I firmly subscribe to the all-for-one, one-for-all idea when it comes to non-conference play. We all knew that Knox was winless. Was it really that necessary for you to take a Sharpie and underline Knox's futility (and thus embarrass the Vikings) by laying out Knox's record to date?

If you're going to go out of your way to draw attention to another team's near-stumble, be prepared to get the same treatment when your team has a less-than-stellar evening against an opponent everyone expects it to rout.

[AndOne]

Bob---

I have to say I think Greg is on to something there.

Also, for your "favorite" projection chart, just wanted you, and anyone else who is interested, to know that the NCC game vs McMurray in Las Vegas is tomorrow, Fri., 12/19, rather than today. There was evidently a mistake on the NCC web site when the schedule was originally posted there, and everyone just continued to run with the originally posted date.

[sac]

How would you like to plan a trip to Vegas, only to find out they just received their biggest snowfall in 30 years.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=9533950

The flooding comes next.

[petemcb]

How would you like to plan a trip to Vegas, only to find out they just received their biggest snowfall in 30 years.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=9533950

The flooding comes next.

I heard the locusts are on their way too.

[petemcb]

Greg or anyone else with a North Park connection  -  is there any word on whether Concordia, WI will be making the trip down here tonight through the foot or more of snow that weather.com reports to be headed our way?

[petemcb]

Didn't realize this, but Concordia, WI is undefeated in conference play and beat Aurora in double OT just recently.  This might be a better game than we thought......if the weather cooperates.

[sac]

How would you like to plan a trip to Vegas, only to find out they just received their biggest snowfall in 30 years.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/global/story.asp?s=9533950

The flooding comes next.

I heard the locusts are on their way too.

Meant flooding in a non-biblical end of days way.  The Las Vegas Valley doesn't handle alot of water well.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg or anyone else with a North Park connection  -  is there any word on whether Concordia, WI will be making the trip down here tonight through the foot or more of snow that weather.com reports to be headed our way?

Neither NPU nor CUW are showing any signs of a postponement or cancellation on their websites. Give me a call later in the afternoon, Pete, and I'll tell you if I've heard anything.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

.... and anyone else who is interested, to know that the NCC game vs McMurray in Las Vegas is tomorrow, Fri., 12/19, rather than today. There was evidently a mistake on the NCC web site when the schedule was originally posted there, and everyone just continued to run with the originally posted date.

another day of lounging by the pool, slot machines and buffets....

what's the problem with that.

dgp

[Titan Q]

We all knew that Knox was winless. Was it really that necessary for you to take a Sharpie and underline Knox's futility (and thus embarrass the Vikings) by laying out Knox's record to date?

I wasn't trying to embarrass anybody, and if that is how it came across I apologize to North Park fans.  I understand how my post was viewed that way - I should have added more detail and actually written what I intended to communicate.

I've rooted for the CCIW team in every non-conference game this year, and I think most recognize me as one the league's biggest and most vocal supporters (ask Hoopsville listeners).  I wasn't trying to embarrass North Park by pointing out Knox's record, but rather to allow everyone to put proper perspective on the game....the fact that it was almost a very big upset.  Just as it would have been an "upset" had Hanover knocked off IWU based on previous results.  (Afterall, I am the one who had IWU as a "favorite" @ Hanover in that list I've been posting regularly.)

After the IWU/Hanover game, the first thing I posted was, "It sounded like IWU played awful for 25 minutes..."  I think I was pretty clear there.  My point to AndOne was simply that, like the NPU/Knox game or Chicago/Augie, stuff happens.  Things don't always play out the way they are supposed to on paper.  Sometimes teams just don't play well for whatever reason (and I suggested what some of those could have been - 9 days off, long trip, etc). 

I think you can both a) recognize and discuss a game that didn't go as expected on paper, and b) discuss why it may have played out that way without trying to embarrass a team or without making silly excuses.   

[Gregory Sager]

OK, thanks for the explanation, Bob.

The CUW @ NPU game is still on at this point. I'll immediately post something here if I hear anything different.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

We all knew that Knox was winless. Was it really that necessary for you to take a Sharpie and underline Knox's futility (and thus embarrass the Vikings) by laying out Knox's record to date?

I wasn't trying to embarrass anybody, and if that is how it came across I apologize to North Park fans.  I understand how my post was viewed that way - I should have added more detail and actually written what I intended to communicate.

I've rooted for the CCIW team in every non-conference game this year, and I think most recognize me as one the league's biggest and most vocal supporters (ask Hoopsville listeners).  I wasn't trying to embarrass North Park by pointing out Knox's record, but rather to allow everyone to put proper perspective on the game....the fact that it was almost a very big upset.  Just as it would have been an "upset" had Hanover knocked off IWU based on previous results.  (Afterall, I am the one who had IWU as a "favorite" @ Hanover in that list I've been posting regularly.)

After the IWU/Hanover game, the first thing I posted was, "It sounded like IWU played awful for 25 minutes..."  I think I was pretty clear there.  My point to AndOne was simply that, like the NPU/Knox game or Chicago/Augie, stuff happens.  Things don't always play out the way they are supposed to on paper.  Sometimes teams just don't play well for whatever reason (and I suggested what some of those could have been - 9 days off, long trip, etc). 

I think you can both a) recognize and discuss a game that didn't go as expected on paper, and b) discuss why it may have played out that way without trying to embarrass a team or without making silly excuses.   

Mr. Right meet Mr. Green
Mr. Green meet Mr. Right

Everybody sing....

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya

[robberki]

the NPU game is still on for tonight folks. Come one, come all to ye old crackerbox on foster and kedzie.