MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[dansand]

The Great Lakes Valley Conference is currently at 13 members and is in the process of adding Maryville (MO) and Illinois-Springfield. Would Carthage head in that direction to give the league an even 16 members? One issue with that would be that I don't think the GLVC sponsors football. I'm not sure there are a lot of other options (other than independent), as the Northern Sun and GLIAC look to be pretty well set as far as members. Of course, a lot can change in that regard in two or three years.

As far as an eighth CCIW member, would there be any possibilities in Illinois, rather than adding Carroll or St. Norbert (returning the league to the CCI)?

It's not implausible for Carthage to move to D2, but the "largest athletic endowment of any D3 school in the country" stuff is a bunch of hooey.

C'mon Greg, all guys brag about their "large athletic endowment." 

[79jaybird]

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY HANNUKAH TO ALL!   

[iwumichigander]

http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread.php?t=11520


"I had a conversation today about facility upgrades just announced in Fayette for Upper Iowa. A person in the group said he sits on the Athletic Department's Fund Raising Committee for Carthage College in Kenosha, Wisconsin. He said they have been investigating and are planning on moving to D2 in two years. They want to finish some facility upgrades, i.e. new basketball arena, football stadium, locker rooms and general campus upgrades before taking the plung.

According to this person, CC currently has the largest athletic endowement of any D3 school in the country and wants to be fully funded in all sports they sponsor when they make the move.

Interesting..."

It's not implausible for Carthage to move to D2, but the "largest athletic endowment of any D3 school in the country" stuff is a bunch of hooey. Carthage has some generous givers who have allowed the school to dramatically upgrade athletic facilities over the past decade, but that's not the same thing as having an "athletic endowment" -- that's something that I've never heard of a D3 school having, much less Carthage having the biggest one. In terms of a regular endowment, Carthage is comparatively impoverished by CCIW standards; the school has something like $48m in its endowment (that's post-Wall-Street-crash, I think), which is down there with NPU at the bottom of the league in terms of endowment funds. Carthage is a tuition-driven school, which is reflected in the fact that the school's athletic teams put a big accent on recruiting numbers (the football team is a conspicuous example).

Money doesn't necessarily dictate whether or not a school moves from D3 to D2; Maryville (MO) has a smaller endowment than Carthage's, yet it is making the move. But the people making those comments on the D2 board don't appear to be very well-informed about Carthage.

A source I checked dated the $48m endowment pre-crunch.  I don't recall any univerity excluding an endowment for athletics from the total institutional endowment figure. I agree endowment has little to do with making a decision to change to D2.  I followed that thread and found, for example, a Carthage poster whom claims no merit to the post.

[Pat Coleman]

Think about this:  to my knowledge (unless things have changed recently) there are NO Division 1 baseball teams in the entire state.  Thus, it's easy to conclude that several D1 caliber players are playing D3 baseball (as was previously mentioned, only 1 other D2 school in the state).  And that would partially explain the complete dominance some of those schools have had in D3 baseball over the years.

UW-Milwaukee plays baseball.

[markerickson]

If Carthage is going D2 and continues to sponsor football, I believe the options would be either to join the Great Lakes or Northern Sun conferences.  The former is comprised of MI and OH schools and the latter has a majority of MN public schools.  Can you imagine Carthage v perennial powerhouse Grand Valley State or this year's national champion, UM-Duluth, on the gridiron?  The growing pains would be immense.

Are there D2 schools in WI or IL that sponsor football?

[iwumichigander]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone. 

[AndOne]

If Carthage is going D2 and continues to sponsor football, I believe the options would be either to join the Great Lakes or Northern Sun conferences.  The former is comprised of MI and OH schools and the latter has a majority of MN public schools.  Can you imagine Carthage v perennial powerhouse Grand Valley State or this year's national champion, UM-Duluth, on the gridiron?  The growing pains would be immense.

Are there D2 schools in WI or IL that sponsor football?

Quincy (IL) University which is D2, revived football in 1986.

[augiefan]

The Carthage rumor helps explain the possible return of Carroll College to the CCIW. Whatever the true story a heartfelt Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all those who venture here.

[CCIW ALUM]

instead of looking to wisconsin for the CCIW why not chek the schools in Illinois first. If your looking at St. Norbert's (Catholic School) would it make sense to look at Benedictine (Catholic School) since they have upgraded the facilities and they are not finished yet to completing the faclilites! St Norbert's recruits the Chicago Area very hard. travel wise Benedictine makes the fit with the CCIW!

[petemcb]

instead of looking to wisconsin for the CCIW why not chek the schools in Illinois first. If your looking at St. Norbert's (Catholic School) would it make sense to look at Benedictine (Catholic School) since they have upgraded the facilities and they are not finished yet to completing the faclilites! St Norbert's recruits the Chicago Area very hard. travel wise Benedictine makes the fit with the CCIW!

Lake Forest also seems like a good fit.

[hickory_cornhusker]

instead of looking to wisconsin for the CCIW why not chek the schools in Illinois first. If your looking at St. Norbert's (Catholic School) would it make sense to look at Benedictine (Catholic School) since they have upgraded the facilities and they are not finished yet to completing the faclilites! St Norbert's recruits the Chicago Area very hard. travel wise Benedictine makes the fit with the CCIW!

Lake Forest also seems like a good fit.

Isn't Lake Forest a former member of the CCIW? (or maybe it was still the CCI back then)

[mr_b]

Lake Forest also seems like a good fit.

Isn't Lake Forest a former member of the CCIW? (or maybe it was still the CCI back then)

Lake Forest was a charter member of the CCI, which was formed in 1946.  Lake Forest dropped out of the CCI after the 1962-63 season.  The conference did not add the fourth letter until 1967, five years after Carthage moved to Kenosha, but a dozen years after Carroll joined. I wonder what the delay was all about... maybe the commissioner's office wanted to use up all that CCI stationery.

The CCIW website has a more extensive history with all the comings, goings, and coming-backs.

[Gregory Sager]

instead of looking to wisconsin for the CCIW why not chek the schools in Illinois first. If your looking at St. Norbert's (Catholic School) would it make sense to look at Benedictine (Catholic School)

Nobody's raising the possibility that St. Norbert or Benedictine might be compatible with the CCIW because of their Catholicism. In fact, the opposite is true. The Catholic affiliations of those two schools are a liability as far as CCIW membership is concerned, not an asset, because Chicagoland has such a high concentration of Catholics and it is thus perceived that a Catholic school would enjoy a recruiting advantage over other CCIW schools were it to join the league.

That's not the primary reason why Benedictine's past attempts to join the CCIW have been rebuffed -- the primary reason is because North Central wants to be the only CCIW school in the Naperville/Lisle area -- but it is a contributing reason.

since they have upgraded the facilities and they are not finished yet to completing the faclilites!

Benedictine does have excellent athletics facilities that are definitely up to CCIW par. However, the school's endowment is somewhat small by CCIW standards.

St Norbert's recruits the Chicago Area very hard. travel wise Benedictine makes the fit with the CCIW!

Actually, Chicagoland is not the primary recruiting ground for St. Norbert athletics. If you look at the SNC website, you'll see that the rosters of the various Green Knights sports teams mostly consist of Wisconsin natives -- and in fact most SNC student-athletes appear to be from towns well north of the border.

Benedictine is definitely a better fit for the CCIW in terms of travel than is St. Norbert, but for the reasons I mentioned above the point is moot. BU is not going to be asked to join the CCIW. If Carthage was to leave, Carroll would be in line ahead of BU in terms of schools that would be asked to take the place of Carthage. So would Aurora. Even DePauw (another school that has expressed interest in CCIW membership in the past) might be in line ahead of Benedictine, in spite of the fact that Greencastle, Indiana is well off the beaten path as far as the CCIW is concerned.

Lake Forest also seems like a good fit.

Isn't Lake Forest a former member of the CCIW? (or maybe it was still the CCI back then)

Lake Forest was a charter member of the CCI, which was formed in 1946.  Lake Forest dropped out of the CCI after the 1962-63 season.  The conference did not add the fourth letter until 1967, five years after Carthage moved to Kenosha, but a dozen years after Carroll joined. I wonder what the delay was all about... maybe the commissioner's office wanted to use up all that CCI stationery.

The CCIW website has a more extensive history with all the comings, goings, and coming-backs.

In a lot of ways, Lake Forest would make an ideal eighth school for the CCIW if Carthage was to exit for D2. However, I've never read or heard any indication from anyone affiliated with LFC that that school has even the slightest interest in re-entering the CCIW. In terms of recruiting rules, legislative ideology, and competitive level, LFC seems to be very comfortable being a part of the MWC.

[Gregory Sager]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everyone!

[iwu70]

Christmas morning already here in Hong Kong -- so Merry Christmas to all . . . and, of course, a most healthy and wealthy Year of the Ox soon to follow in late January.  I'm looking forward to being on the IWU campus at Chinese New Year time this year . . . hope to find a good fried or steamed dumpling along with all the Chinese students at IWU now!  And, to seeing at least one game by the men and one by the women during my short visit. 

Happy and Safe Holidays to all.