MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Here is Wheaton's next two weeks of games (potentially without Raymond):

Jan. 17  at Millikin     
Jan. 21  Carthage     
Jan. 24  Elmhurst       
Jan. 28  at North Central       
Jan. 31  at Augustana

I see 2-3 as a best case scenario without Raymond.  If the Thunder can somehow go 3-2 here, it would be big.     

[Titan Q]

I'm always a fan of the Bosko press release quotes after each game...

http://www.carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/release.html

Quoting Coach Bosko Djurickovic on the Jan. 15 Illinois Wesleyan Game:  "We couldn't be more disappointed," said Carthage coach Bosko Djurickovic.  "We talked on Saturday about how well we executed our game plan, but tonight, we looked like we hadn't practiced for four days.  Illinois Wesleyan is a fine team, and they do a really nice job of getting the ball where they need to.  Our zone wasn't very effective tonight, and we have to do a better job defensively.  We also have to find more shots for Sean Fendley.  He's running around, trying to get open, and we're not getting him the looks he needs.  With 32 three-point attempts, tonight's game reminded me of last year's team, and that's not the kind of balance we want.  I'm frustrated, because we let this one get away.  We had a chance to go 3-0 in the league and to put Illinois Wesleyan at 0-3.  Now, this North Park game on Saturday becomes really, really important for us, and we don't match up with them particularly well."

[Titan Q]

Ron Rose on Steve Djurickovic:

"He's an outstanding player," Wesleyan coach Ron Rose said. "He just distorts the game. You have to do a lot of different things to try to keep him corralled. He's still going to get points. He's just so good with the ball and makes others around him better. Unfortunately, he's only a sophomore."


http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/red_men_are_denied_4190655.html


We talked about Kent Raymond reaching 2000 career points Wednesday.  Djurickovic just hit the 1000 mark last night.  Here is a comparison of when each hit 1000:

Raymond - game 55 (3rd game junior year)
Djurickovic - game 39 (14th game sophomore year)


I wonder at what level Djurickovic could successfully play point-guard.  With his size and quickness, I think he could start somewhere in the Missouri Valley right now, one of the top mid-major D1 leagues.  He wouldn't be the scorer he is at this level, but I think he'd still be a good point-guard.  I wonder if he could even play higher than that as a JR and SR?

[REDMENFAN]

What a great game in Kenosha last night.  I haven't looked at the numbers, but I would guess Tolo got to play 2 minutes at most the entire second half with foul trouble, and Williams about 10 minutes or so.  That obviously made a huge difference in the game.  Wesleyan's post player kept doing this same little baby hook to the left over and over, and Carthage just couldn't find a way to stop it.  Number 2, 14, and 25 can all really shoot the ball from the 3 point line, especially number 2 who sank a couple from NBA range or deeper.  Steve showed everyone he has improve his outside game quite a bit, including one deep step back 3 with about 5 minutes remaining in the contest.  Overall, very impressed with both teams.  What really stood out to me was Wesleyan players making the extra pass to get open looks.

[usee]

Q made the point that the conference winner needs to protect home court and win 3-4 games on the road en route to 10-4/11-3. Here is where we stand as of today (home record/away record/next 4 games)

	H	A	Next
Wheaton	2-0	1-0	@Mill, Carth, Elm, @NCC
NCC	2-0	1-0	@Augie, @Elm, Carth, Wheat
Carthage	1-1	1-0	@NPU, @Wheat, @NCC, Elm
Augie	2-0	0-2	NCC, Mill, IWU, @NPU
Elmhurst	1-1	0-1	@IWU, NCC, Wheat, @Carth
IWU	0-1	1-1	Elm, NPU, @Augie, Mill
Millikin	0-1	1-1	Wheat, @Augie, NPU, @IWU
NPU	0-1	1-1	Carth, @IWU, @Mill, Augie

(Sorry for the formatting--all manual as I don't know the sagerian method of charting). Wheaton, NCC and Augie seem to be in the best place right now. NCC will find out over the next 4 games exactly how they stack up While Augie has perhaps the easiest stretch of their conf season (if such a thing exists). Let the analysis begin.

(Edited by GS, who just can't help himself sometimes.)

[Titan Q]

Q made the point that the conference winner needs to protect home court and win 3-4 games on the road en route to 10-4/11-3. Here is where we stand as of today (home record/away record/next 4 games)

	H	A	Next
Wheaton	2-0	1-0	@Mill, Carth, Elm, @NCC
NCC	2-0	1-0	@Augie, @Elm, Carth, Wheat
Carthage	1-1	1-0	@NPU, @Wheat, @NCC, Elm
Augie	2-0	0-2	NCC, Mill, IWU, @NPU
Elmhurst	1-1	0-1	@IWU, NCC, Wheat, @Carth
IWU	0-1	1-1	Elm, NPU, @Augie, Mill
Millikin	0-1	1-1	Wheat, @Augie, NPU, @IWU
NPU	0-1	1-1	Carth, @IWU, @Mill, Augie

(Sorry for the formatting--all manual as I don't know the sagerian method of charting). Wheaton, NCC and Augie seem to be in the best place right now. NCC will find out over the next 4 games exactly how they stack up While Augie has perhaps the easiest stretch of their conf season (if such a thing exists). Let the analysis begin.

(Edited by GS, who just can't help himself sometimes.)

I've always liked to express this with a simple "+/-" system...

Home win = 0
Home loss -1
Road win = +1
Road loss = 0

Through Thursday, Jan. 15
Wheaton +1
North Central +1
Augustana +0
Carthage +0
Illinois Wesleyan +0
Millikin +0
Elmhurst -1
North Park -1

When you look at the standings that way you realize just how tight it is.  For example, North Park might be 0-4, but 3 of those losses were on the road. 

It usually takes a "+4" to win the league (11-3 record).  With Kent Raymond's injury, I'm starting to wonder if this might be the 10-4 year (+3)...it all depends on how the Thunder survive this stretch without him.  I know it's early, but I really don't see anyone else finishing 11-3 or better.

Another big round of games tomorrow:

North Central @ Augustana. 
Carthage @ North Park
Elmhurst @ Ill. Wesleyan
Wheaton @ Millikin


What a fun league to follow.

[augiefan]

Even as an Augie fan I feel terrible about the injury to Kent Raymond. With him at full strength I really felt that Wheaton was on their way to the FF and with a few breaks a National title. Remembering how much the loss of Jordan Delp to injury last year weakened the Augie Vikings, I wouldn't wish this kind of misfortune on anybody. Any true competitor wants to beat a good opponent at full strength.

Hopefully, KR will recover in time to help Wheaton make the tournament. In the meantime there are others on the team that can step up. They certainly are a team that deserves to make the CCIW tourney and the NCAA tourney as well. KR isa as good as any player I've seen at the DIII level. It is a shame thgat he will not be able to compete throughout his final season at his full capability.

[usee]

Q, I remembered your scoring system but was hesitant to use it for fear of messing it up. I did look back at past seasons and the conference champ for the last 6 years has been at least 11-3 (+4). Augie was +4 in each of the last 3 title runs and IWU was 12-2 (+5) for their titles in 04 and 05. Interestingly, in 02 we had 3 teams at 11-3 (+4) and all 3 made the playoffs.  Other notables include Wheaton's elite 8 team last year at 9-5 (+2) and IWU's final 4 team in 05 was 9-5 (+2). Elmhurst did not get in to the playoffs in 07 at 10-4 (+3).

The race this year is tight and every team is still in it.

[Gregory Sager]

I will be holding on to the faint hope that we will see him again after 6 games.

If indeed it is a high ankle sprain, then it's likely that your only hope for a Raymond return after six games is a faith healer and anointing oil. A high ankle sprain is a lot different than a garden-variety ankle sprain (it involves a completely different set of ligaments), and it's much more serious. From all the stuff I've read and from what trainers have told me, a stable, non-surgical high ankle sprain is more like a six-week injury than a three-week injury. Kyle Orton of the Bears missed only one game this season after receiving a high ankle sprain, it's true, but he was held out of practice for most of the subsequent weeks and anyone who watched the Bears play for the rest of the season after his return could see how limited he was in terms of his movement and his ability to push off of his legs when he threw the ball. And what Kent Raymond does on the basketball court is considerably more demanding upon his lower legs than dropping back three steps and throwing a football.

A better comparison might be Sidney Crosby of the Pittsburgh Penguins, whose job as an NHL hockey player requires the same sort of mobility, thrust, flexibility, and stamina in his legs as Raymond's. Crosby suffered a non-surgical high ankle sprain in January last season and missed six weeks. After two weeks of playing at diminished capacity once he had returned, he shut it down again in mid-March for another considerable stretch of games and was complaining of ankle stiffness as recently as this past summer.

Of course, Kent Raymond isn't Kyle Orton or Sidney Crosby. Everybody heals at different rates, and not every high ankle sprain is the same. Some are mild, some are worse. It's not likely that we're going to be privy to his medical information and rehab schedule on CCIW Chat, and I doubt that we have a lot of trainers or doctors who read this room. But if I had to guess, I'd predict like andrewmp that Wheaton's best hope would be for the orthopedist to sign off on letting Raymond back onto the court for the conference tournament, or the last week of the regular season at best. Even so, he most likely won't be at 100% when he does return. If he was hurt so badly on Wednesday that he couldn't even put weight on the leg, I'd be shocked if we saw him back on the court after only missing six games.

I'm always a fan of the Bosko press release quotes after each game...

http://www.carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/release.html

Quoting Coach Bosko Djurickovic on the Jan. 15 Illinois Wesleyan Game:  "Now, this North Park game on Saturday becomes really, really important for us, and we don't match up with them particularly well."

I love it when Bosko goes into Holtz mode. We're getting the full-on sandbag routine with this one.

We talked about Kent Raymond reaching 2000 career points Wednesday.  Djurickovic just hit the 1000 mark last night.  Here is a comparison of when each hit 1000:

Raymond - game 55 (3rd game junior year)
Djurickovic - game 39 (14th game sophomore year)

For his entire amazing career back in the mid-70s, the CCIW's all-time scoring leader, Leon Gobczynski of Millikin, scored 2,635 points. Steve Djurickovic is on pace to score 2,580 in his career -- and that's assuming that he doesn't miss any games, plays 100 games (in other words, no CCIW tourney or D3 tourney appearances and no cancellations of regular-season games), and doesn't see reduced time in any of those games. Gobbo set the CCIW record with 1,662 points for the Big Blue in league play, and at his current pace Steve D. will log 1,122 points in CCIW games. Of course, this presupposes a constant flow of points, which is unrealistic. Last year Steve D. averaged 23.9 ppg in CCIW play, this year he's averaging a much higher 32.0 ppg. If he ever gets physically stronger, it's hard to imagine how much more he'd be capable of scoring. On the other hand, if Carthage ever brings in big men solid enough to give the Red Men a legitimate inside game, it's likely that Steve D.'s scoring totals would go down and his assist totals would go up.

[Gregory Sager]

Even as an Augie fan I feel terrible about the injury to Kent Raymond. With him at full strength I really felt that Wheaton was on their way to the FF and with a few breaks a National title. Remembering how much the loss of Jordan Delp to injury last year weakened the Augie Vikings, I wouldn't wish this kind of misfortune on anybody. Any true competitor wants to beat a good opponent at full strength.

Hopefully, KR will recover in time to help Wheaton make the tournament. In the meantime there are others on the team that can step up. They certainly are a team that deserves to make the CCIW tourney and the NCAA tourney as well. KR isa as good as any player I've seen at the DIII level. It is a shame thgat he will not be able to compete throughout his final season at his full capability.

Absolutely, although I think that aside from the competitive and aesthetic reasons why we non-Wheaton fans should feel badly for Raymond's absence, as a matter of principle we should feel badly for any player from an opposing team who has to miss time due to injury.

I also feel a little badly for the player who will ultimately win the MOP this season (and it's definitely Steve Djurickovic's to lose now), because he'll always have that Raymond cloud hanging over his head. And that's a little unfair; this year's MOP, whether it's Steve D. or somebody else, will be a great player in his own right. Comparisons to Raymond aren't going to come off well for anybody, because I think that you can make a very strong case for the argument that Kent Raymond is the best all-around CCIW player we've seen in decades.

[sac]

A better comparison might be Sidney Crosby of the Pittsburgh Penguins,

I think you mean Cindy Crosby.........as a Red Wing fan, I mean that.

[Gregory Sager]

A better comparison might be Sidney Crosby of the Pittsburgh Penguins,

I think you mean Cindy Crosby.........as a Red Wing fan, I mean that.

I'm just shocked that we didn't have an MWC poster come in here and inform us that Sidney is a girl's name.

[AndOne]

A better comparison might be Sidney Crosby of the Pittsburgh Penguins,

I think you mean Cindy Crosby.........as a Red Wing fan, I mean that.

As a Blackhawk fan-----------> DE-TROIT SUCKS!

[Dennis_Prikkel]

1- what makes Gobcynzski's junior year performance of 976 points all the more remarkable was that in three of those games he scored 0 (zero), 5 and 9.  He had 48 and 42 against North Park.

2- Add Carroll College's Dave Shaw, 1974-77, to the list of CCIW 2000 point scorers.  Shaw played his entire career in the CCIW, and finished second behind Gobo in the number of points scored in CCIW action.  He was the best guard in the league in 1976 and 1977 and averaged 29.1 points per game as a senior in 1977 with 819 points and absolutely no supporting cast.

He finished with 2,563 points in his career.

THis "IS" one of those players that would have greatly benefitted from the three-point shot, as he never went within 25 feet of the basket on the offensive or defensive end of the court, unless it was to shoot free throws, where he was a 90% shooter at the charity stripe.

DGP

[wheels81]

A better comparison might be Sidney Crosby of the Pittsburgh Penguins,

I think you mean Cindy Crosby.........as a Red Wing fan, I mean that.

You are now my favorite poster "sac"
I'm in a fantasy hockey league in yahoo who's title is "Sydney (cindy) is a Crybaby"

Now back d3hoops ball