MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Sakman 1111]

I guess the only positives I can take from the Elmhurst victory was that it is nice to get a win when you didn't play well. Also the play of Childs in the last two games is a real positive for the Bluejays. The subbing patterns for Elmhurst sometimes are beyond strange.....A couple of the key players, in my opinion, need to be on the floor at all times....Key players in my mind are Ruchs,Burks,Strzemp,and Childs....A few times last night there were some real weak lineups on the floor with some less than appealing matchups for Elmhurst. Another positive was the Bluejays collectively did a good job on Drennan.....Have to play much better Saturday.....

[markerickson]

I have not read every word posted about last night's game(s).  Regarding IWU/NP, the winner, like Carthage, shot over 60% from inside the arc.  As I mentioned after the Carthage loss, NP lacked a team effort on defense.  Please advise why IWU shot so well.  Were far too many shots uncontested or were the Titans on fire or a combination thereof?

IWU shot 45% from outside the arc.  Same question.

[Mugsy]

I actually thought that Wiele really stepped up and took over.  An apparent Carthage fan in front of me kept saying 'don't let him shoot, just foul him.'  There were several times when we was fouled that he just missed getting the basket as well.  He stepped up and started being the go to guy, but just didn't hit his free throws. 

A big part of effective free throw shooting is in the legs... If Wiele isn't 100% on his conditioning yet and he is being called on to do more than he would have if Raymond was healthy, that may have impacted his free throw shooting in the 2nd half.  Not to make excuses... just a guess.

That doesn't explain the horrid FT shooting by the rest of the team!   

[oldreporter]

As I said last night, Schniedermeier vanished from the game completely shortly after the second half began. I hope that he didn't get hurt. I'll try to get an update on that as well.

As of posting this hadn't been answered yet, and excuse my lack of knowledge b/c this is only my second IWU game of the season (and 2nd after being back in town for the first time since 2006), but in the second half, one of NP's players left the game and didn't come back (so it could be Schniedermeier). The players/refs were looking at the floor for a while, so possibly he lost a contact?

[andrewmp]

I actually thought that Wiele really stepped up and took over.  An apparent Carthage fan in front of me kept saying 'don't let him shoot, just foul him.'  There were several times when we was fouled that he just missed getting the basket as well.  He stepped up and started being the go to guy, but just didn't hit his free throws. 

A big part of effective free throw shooting is in the legs... If Wiele isn't 100% on his conditioning yet and he is being called on to do more than he would have if Raymond was healthy, that may have impacted his free throw shooting in the 2nd half.  Not to make excuses... just a guess.

That doesn't explain the horrid FT shooting by the rest of the team!  

That was my thought on the first free throw attempt of the second half, where he wasn't even close to hitting the rim. 

[Gregory Sager]

As I said last night, Schniedermeier vanished from the game completely shortly after the second half began. I hope that he didn't get hurt. I'll try to get an update on that as well.

As of posting this hadn't been answered yet, and excuse my lack of knowledge b/c this is only my second IWU game of the season (and 2nd after being back in town for the first time since 2006), but in the second half, one of NP's players left the game and didn't come back (so it could be Schniedermeier). The players/refs were looking at the floor for a while, so possibly he lost a contact?

That was Schniedermeier. He checked out about two minutes into the second half and never came back into the game. Given the huge rebounding disparity and the fact that NPU gave up a lot of points inside, it's clear that he was missed. I have no idea whether or not he has eyewear issues. All I know is that NPU needs him on the floor, and it needs him badly.

[Viking Blue]

Absolutely bizarre -- and very disappointing. I didn't think that NPU had a great shot at winning this game, but it would've been nice to see what would've happened if the Vikes had had Russell and Cooper there from the very beginning.

It's tough to say what would have happened, with IWU playing so many guys in the first half that haven't seen much action.

Perhaps, but Ron Rose has made it a point to play a very deep rotation this year -- and it didn't appear in the PBP that there were any unusual names cropping up on the IWU side of the ledger in the first half. Russell's absence, on the other hand, was catastrophic for the Vikings -- there's just nobody else on the NPU team besides Russell who can run the point except for Cahill, and Cahill sat out again with his thigh injury. NPU started a 5 (Schniedermeier), two 4s (Williams and Benson), a 3 (Greer) and a 2 (McNamee) tonight.

I personaly witnessed a former fellow Railsplitter play for the first time this year...it was the first time I witnessed the only Titan heavier than me play in the first half this year...and I think you'll find that most Titan starters played much less than they usually do.  That is what I intended by my previous statement (although I didn't spell it out as well).

Oh, yeah, Connolly played in the first half. 'Tis true.

I gotta get the postmortem from the NPU coaches on tonight's unusual punishment. I wonder if Russell and Cooper each had to sit out as many minutes as they made the bus late?

Yuck.  What a mess at North Park.  When does baseball season start?

The Brenegan era of North Park basketball - all apt descriptions:

absolutely bizarre
very disappointing
catastrophic
postmortem
unusal punishment
yuck
what a mess

very fitting words - and I didn't say any of them.

dgp

In twenty years of riding the bus to North Park away games I can remember only one player missing the bus, or showing up late.

Hate to sound like a politician or a professional athlete here, but I think I may have been taken a LITTLE out of context here.  I was not describing the "Paul Brenegan era".

And based on some of the stories I have heard about the "good old days" at North Park, I can find it very believable why a player would not want to miss the bus....from some accounts, there were some very good times had on those rides!

[shepherd]

Last night's second half at King felt like de ja vu after watching Illinois' second half at Michigan State.  Wheaton really lost their offensive flow after halftime and consistently found themselves pushed out beyond the arc with little time remaining on the shot clock.  I had a lot of respect for last night's officiating crew for calling the foul on Wiele at the end of the game.  Very tough call to make against the home team in a one-point game with that little time left but it was the right call. 

Question for those who saw the Wheaton/Carthage game?

Obviously Wheaton played very focused D in the first half, holding the Redmen to just 16 points and Steve Dj to just two - do you think that all that emotional and physical output on the defensive end in the first half, took its toll on the offensive end, where no one stepped up in the final twenty minutes?

DGP

I think it that it may very well had an effect on Panner.  His first two shots in the second half were misses, and the only points he scored were on one of two free throws.
I actually thought that Wiele really stepped up and took over.  An apparent Carthage fan in front of me kept saying 'don't let him shoot, just foul him.'  There were several times when we was fouled that he just missed getting the basket as well.  He stepped up and started being the go to guy, but just didn't hit his free throws.  The only other person who I thought was aggressive on the offensive end for Wheaton in the second half was Pflederer.  I liked how he pushed the ball on the fast break and created some opportunities.  He still makes some mistakes as a freshman, but I think right now he may be the bes option to get Wheaton going on offense.  With Panner defensive duties, and also having to bring the ball up, I just don't think he had the energy to get open enough.  I think Wheaton also settled too much in letting Wiele be the offense.

IMHO: I agree that they used Wiele too much.  Even though he was still effective in the second half he was obviously dragging his feet from being tired, sore or both.  I also thought they focused too much on the inside game.  The passes were going from the big men inside to the guards outside.  So Carthage was able to cover our guards with little effort expended.  Thus Carthage heated up their shooting percentage.  Normal Wheaton offense plays off the guards around the perimeter and sometimes slashing to the basket.  Which puts the good percentage guards on the line.  Also making the other teams guards get tired hopefully having a lower shooting percentage and have to be subbed out more.  The inside game should work off the perimeter game not vice versa as versus Carthage.  But you really have to give Carthage credit for the adjustments they made and not giving up.  I hope we see a more energetic Wheaton team versus Elmhurst. 

[augiefan]

An interesting evening last night. Much is being made of the Carthage "upset", but we all know that if Kent Raymond had played Wheaton would still be undefeated. His injury is making it possible that some other team will win the regular season title. However, if he returns in the next week or so Wheaton should still win the CCIW tourney and the automatic bid

Elmhurst really was fortunate to pull out their victory. Another home loss would have been devastating, but they are still right in the mix. NCC's poor FT shooting has hurt them in both of their recent losses.

Augie played its worst home game of the year last night and was able to win because of strong defensive effort. 32.1% FG shooting, 16.7% from 3 point land and 63.2% from the FT line usually results in an ugly loss. Justin Bertrand's absence hurt more than expected. No one other than Chandlor Collins appears to have played well in this one. Even if Bertrand is back Saturday, which sounds unlikely, IWU has a good shot at beating Augie, but then IWU is the Jeykl and Hyde of the conference. Hopefully, the inexperienced Titans will show up on Saturday and let Augie off the hook. It is really a must win for Augie as virtually all of their second half games are on the road.

[Hoosier Titan]

I have not read every word posted about last night's game(s).  Regarding IWU/NP, the winner, like Carthage, shot over 60% from inside the arc.  As I mentioned after the Carthage loss, NP lacked a team effort on defense.  Please advise why IWU shot so well.  Were far too many shots uncontested or were the Titans on fire or a combination thereof?

IWU shot 45% from outside the arc.  Same question.

IWU showed MUCH better ball movement than in the previous games against North Central and Elmhurst.  They had a total of 24 assists last night, as opposed to 11 and 12 in those other two games.  I wasn't at Carthage so I can't comment on that game.  The shots weren't wide open and IWU wasn't really on fire; they just made crisp, sharp passes and moved well.

[dansand]

Augie played its worst home game of the year last night and was able to win because of strong defensive effort. 32.1% FG shooting, 16.7% from 3 point land and 63.2% from the FT line usually results in an ugly loss. Justin Bertrand's absence hurt more than expected. No one other than Chandlor Collins appears to have played well in this one. Even if Bertrand is back Saturday, which sounds unlikely, IWU has a good shot at beating Augie, but then IWU is the Jeykl and Hyde of the conference. Hopefully, the inexperienced Titans will show up on Saturday and let Augie off the hook. It is really a must win for Augie as virtually all of their second half games are on the road.

Jeez Augiefan,

I hate always having to come on here to put your posts in perspective (much the way Titan Q has to with OurHouse), but I can't let this one go. Augie has won 26 of its last 27 CCIW regular season home games and has beaten Wesleyan eight of the last nine times they've played. Only you could spin a potential Viking win as Illinois Wesleyan "letting Augie off the hook."

Don't get me wrong, it'll be a tough game against a talented IWU team--one that Augie is certainly capable of dropping if they don't play well. They'll obviously have to shoot it better than they did against Millikin, but the idea that the Vikes can only win this game if the Titans "let them off the hook" is laughable.

As far as last night's game. Obviously not very pretty from an offensive standpoint. The Vikings won it, as they often do, on the defensive end. They did a much better job on Ogunleye than they did at Carver last year, when he had 31. My take on Millikin is that they make it very hard on themselves offensively. Although Joscar Demby is a nice player, he (or anyone else) doesn't give them much of an offensive post presence. Combine that with the fact that they play at a very deliberate pace and get few easy baskets in transition and don't utilize the 3-pointer much, and they're left relying to a large degree on mid-range jumpers.

I'm not sure what Justin Bertand's status for Saturday will be. I talked to him for a minute after the game and he hopes to play, but sounded far from sure. Maybe a game time decision.

[paularmerding]

What I really haven't seen written yet by those of us lucky enough to watch the CC-WC game on the internet (I was able to catch the second half at my office after a long day) is the fact that WC did everything they needed to do--intense defense, decent rebounding, adequate shooting, demonstrating that Andy Wiele is virtually unstoppable inside with his size, quickness, and facility with either hand--to win this game in a convincing fashion except.... make free throws.  They really did not lose because they had a letdown, or even (not to take away from a superb effort) the play of Carthage in the second half. I agree that they were depending on the inside game almost exclusively in the second half, but I did not see many open looks on the perimeter, and the inside game was working very effectively--why go away from it?  No loss is pleasant or positive, but I would think they would actually come away from the game with their confidence unshaken and their determination ramped up.  The only thing that may frustrate them is the fact that they didn't  have a letdown and still lost on the basis of a part of their game that they probably take for granted.  You can bet no one is leaving practice without making 20 in a row[/b]

[andrewmp]

What I really haven't seen written yet by those of us lucky enough to watch the CC-WC game on the internet (I was able to catch the second half at my office after a long day) is the fact that WC did everything they needed to do--intense defense, decent rebounding, adequate shooting, demonstrating that Andy Wiele is virtually unstoppable inside with his size, quickness, and facility with either hand--to win this game in a convincing fashion except.... make free throws.  They really did not lose because they had a letdown, or even (not to take away from a superb effort) the play of Carthage in the second half. I agree that they were depending on the inside game almost exclusively in the second half, but I did not see many open looks on the perimeter, and the inside game was working very effectively--why go away from it?  No loss is pleasant or positive, but I would think they would actually come away from the game with their confidence unshaken and their determination ramped up.  The only thing that may frustrate them is the fact that they didn't  have a letdown and still lost on the basis of a part of their game that they probably take for granted.  You can bet no one is leaving practice without making 20 in a row[/b]

I would generally agree with you Paul, but as the half wore on, they would sag on Wiele.  A kick out from him for anyone to hit a couple shots would have made his night easier, and I think he would have come away with an easy two instead of some hard earned buckets, or, some "tough" free throws.  Carthage doesn't have anybody that can much up with Wiele, but Elmhurst sure does, and they cannot rely on Andy's inside game for offense on Saturday.
I think that for the game on saturday, Wheaton will need to create some fast break opportunities, getting some easy buckets in transition.  How much trouble they give the Elmhurst guards will be interesting.
One other comment about the game last night...McCrary didn't seem to have that much of an impact in the second half, and really didn't play that much.  I was hoping for more from him, but that might be a result of being a freshman.  I think he will bounce back for this next game.

[augiefan]

Calm yourself Dansand. For the record I picked Augie to beat IWU on Saturday night. The "letting them off the hook " comment  is known as a tongiue in cheek remark. Nonetheless, with or without Bertrand this is a very dangerous IWU team that has played better on the rioad than at home in conference games. A win at Carthage and a near miss at Wheaton (with Raymond playing) should make all Augie fans a little nervous about this game. Augie's recent history of wins over IWU will not mean a thing come Saturday at 7:30 p.m..

Although I dfo not share your eternal optimiusm about this year's Augie team, I do expect a nice rebound by the Vikings and a good win over IWU.

[79jaybird]

Carthage was not lucky to beat Wheaton and I don't think it is fair to say they WOULD HAVE beat Wheaton had Raymond been in.  You win/lose with the 5 guys on the floor, and Carthage was a better team that particular night.

I am looking forward to the EC/WC game.  I think for Elmhurst the real question is going to be will Childs, Bainter, and Strzemp be factors?  Lately teams have double teamed Ruch down low attempting to keep him quiet.  For Wheaton, I think they have to move the ball well and try to speed up the tempo, as Elmhurst has been victim of being lazy getting back to the defensive side of the ball.