MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[74impala]

You could tell that the Wheaton players really appreciated the fan support last night.  As Raymond came off the floor at the end of the game, he gave the fans a standing ovation. 

[Late nite]

IMHO, Elmhurst lost the ballgame on the defensive end of the floor in the first half and never recovered---Wheaton must have had at least 10 layups during this period, mostly on basic back cuts---Wheaton brought Wiele up high and created back door lanes to take advantage of the aggressive EC defensive overplay---Wheaton played very well defensively, but it is a lot easier to set up your half court defense when the other team is constantly taking the ball out of the net---Congrats to Wheaton---They outplayed and out-coached EC on this night---They will be tough to beat if they stay heathy---More weapons than any other team in the league

[REDMENFAN]

Here's the article from lastnights Carthage/NC game.  Good atmosphere for a college game.  Carthage started out both halves with a scoring drought, especially in the second half scoring only 2 points in the first 8 minutes of the half.

http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/red_men_are_blue_4359802.html

[Sakman 1111]

After watching that debacle last night(if you are a Bluejay fan) can there be any doubt who is the best team in the league and who is the MVP. If Raymond wanted to score 40 last night he could of against the soft Bluejay defense......Bluejay guards were outplayed on offense and defense.....and their big man totally shut down Ruchs. Time to regroup and win the last three games and hope someone else beats Wheaton in the playoffs or maybe Raymond gets the 24 hour flu that day....

[dansand]

Nice win on the road for Augie last night. The offensive momentum from the Carthage game carried over as the Vikes were red hot in the first half. This was a dangerous game as the Big Blue were coming off wins over North Central and Elmhurst in their last two home games. Alex Washington got off to a great start and had probably his best offensive performance of the year (18 points on 7-of-8 shooting). Bertrand (9 pts/7 rebs) and Collins (7 pts/12 rebs) were both very solid inside. When the Vikings shoot .420 or above from the field (not a terribly high threshold) they're 14-1 this year as opposed to 3-5 when they shoot under 42%.

Note that Wheaton's sweep of Augustana is critical in the tie-breaker scenarios, including the biggie - a tie with Augie.

Actually, if I understand the tie-breaker process correctly, it'll be almost impossible for Augie to win a tie breaker with any of the league's top teams. If they tie with Elmhurst, for example, with whom they split, I think the next criteria would be how each team did against Wheaton (assuming Wheaton stays atop the league's standings). Augie was 0-2 while Elmhurst split with the Thunder. The same would apply in a tie with Carthage. The Vikes still have a chance to go 2-0 vs. North Central, but if the Cardinals were able to knock off Augie Saturday, the same would apply in a tie with North Central. I think this is correct, but if not someone please let me know.

The bright side for Augie is that the tie-breaker really only affects the conference tournament hosting and seeding. In 2003 when the Vikings, Carthage and IWU tied for the conference title, the tie-breaker was the difference between Wesleyan advancing to the NCAA's and Augie and Carthage staying home. If Augie can win out they would do no worse than the third seed in the CCIW tournament, meaning they wouldn't have to play the host school in the semifinals.

Also, I'd agree with Augiefan. I'd be happy with an eventual tie with Wheaton, because that would probably mean a share of the CCIW championship.

[cardinalpride]

Regarding Koschnitzky, Greg, curious if you view him as a 3 or a 4 in the CCIW.  I go back and forth on that.

TQ,
I would consider Koschnitzky a "combo forward"!  Right now he is more effective at the 3 but as he develops over the next couple of years his effectiveness will increase around the basket on both ends!  With more strength and experience he should be able to play the 4 with similar impact as he currently does as a 3.  Just my opinion however!

[Thunder Dutch]

IMHO, Elmhurst lost the ballgame on the defensive end of the floor in the first half and never recovered---Wheaton must have had at least 10 layups during this period, mostly on basic back cuts---Wheaton brought Wiele up high and created back door lanes to take advantage of the aggressive EC defensive overplay---Wheaton played very well defensively, but it is a lot easier to set up your half court defense when the other team is constantly taking the ball out of the net---Congrats to Wheaton---They outplayed and out-coached EC on this night---They will be tough to beat if they stay heathy---More weapons than any other team in the league

imho, it didn't even feel like a 15-point victory. didn't feel that close... maybe it was the quiet student section, maybe the defeated attitude elmhurst started to have when wheaton pushed it to 25 midway through the second. maybe it was the 13-4 run elmhurst had in the last 4 minutes, when wheaton admittedly started getting careless, played some bad defense, and subbed out all the starters

[Dennis_Prikkel]

This would mark either the second or third time in CCIW history that all four road teams won on the same night.

dgp

I love to quote myself - makes me feel kind of important - anyhoo, CCIW publicity director Mike Krizman shared with me the note he put out the last time all four teams won on the road.

"A strange occurrence happened during the four conference games on Wednesday, Jan. 10: all four winners were the visiting team. Augustana topped Wheaton at Wheaton, North Park upset CCIW preseason No. 1 pick North Central in Naperville, Ill., Millikin beat Illinois Wesleyan in Bloomington, Ill., and Elmhurst continued its winning streak in a road win against Carthage in Kenosha, Wis. In review of past records between 1947 and 1995, the only time such an occurance took place was Jan. 18, 1975 as Illinois Wesleyan beat Carthage, North Central topped Millikin, Elmhurst beat North Park, and Augustana beat Wheaton. The night before, Illinois Wesleyan beat Carroll at Carroll, a member of the CCIW until 1992."

[Titan Q]

Just talked to someone close to things at IWU.  The Titans are going big Saturday vs Wheaton, starting...

Brett Chamernik, 6-5
John Koschnitzky, 6-6
Doug Sexauer, 6-7
Eric McCullough, 6-9
Ryan Connolly, 6-9


Wait till you see my boy Chamy handle the rock.  Looking forward to it!

[Gregory Sager]

* Jordan Zimmer looked very one-dimensional, but John Koshnitzky looked like an absolute stud in the making

Zimmer is definitely one-dimensional this season, although I will say that his one dimension is very good.  On the season he is 42-83 from 3 (.506).  In CCIW play he is 19-41 (.463).  He can really shoot it, and at 6-5, has great height for a guard.

I saw Zimmer play several times last season, and in high school, he did it all.  In his final game, in the tournament, he scored 44 points and I'm not sure I've ever seen a kid score more ways.  He hits 3's, put it on the floor and hit pull-up mid-range jumpers, posted up and scored several times, scored in transition, attacked the basket and shot a bunch of FT's, etc.  The 3-point shot was his bread and butter in H.S., but he could do it all.  His senior year stats:

244-504 FG (.484)
123-293 3-pt (.420)
125-137 FT (.913)

So 42% of his FGA were 2's at Delavan.  As a freshman at IWU, only 27% of his FGA have been 2's. 

I believe as Zimmer gets stronger, and more experienced, he will become multi-dimensional, like he was in H.S.  He is in the process of making a huge leap from IHSA Class 1A to the CCIW and I think he's done a nice job this year.  I think we've all seen kids transition from being catch-and-shoot guys to adding the ability to put it on the floor, score in the mid-range, get to the basket, etc.  I think when Zimmer is a JR and SR he will be much different player -- still primarily a 3-pt shooter, but a player who can do a lot more offensively as well.  I think Zimmer has a chance to be a very good player at IWU.

The high school stats wouldn't mean much even in an optimal situation -- after all, we're talking about a player who has almost a full season of college ball under his belt now -- but they're even more meaningless in the context of a player coming out of a Class 1A situation. It's one thing to "do it all" against some six-foot teenaged farmboy who's biding time between his high school's football and baseball seasons by playing basketball, and it's another thing entirely to "do it all" against CCIW competition.

The fact of the matter is that Zimmer doesn't appear to be anything other than a spot-up shooter at this point. And you're right, he's a very good one -- his treys from the deep corner were instrumental in that big IWU first-half run. But I don't know if he dribbled the ball even once during the entire game -- if he caught a pass and didn't have a shot, he passed it right back out again. He's played in all of Wesleyan's 22 games, and is averaging 18 mpg -- and yet he's only taken eleven free throw attempts the entire season. That's a mind-boggling statistic; you'd think that a player who averages almost an entire half of playing time thru 22 games would have at least twice as many FTAs simply by incidental game flow, if nothing else. And as far as defense is concerned, he couldn't guard a dustpan in a broom closet -- a trait he shares with a lot of other IWU and NPU underclassmen who were on the floor last night.

Yeah, it's entirely possible that Zimmer will evolve and become a well-rounded CCIW player. As you said, he's got that nice tall frame, and he's certainly getting all the early varsity experience he can handle. But it's hardly a sure thing, and his high-school background doesn't really have any relevance to the issue at this point.

Not to make a straight comparison between the two, but I'm more encouraged by the type of game that NPU freshman guard D.J. Cooper has developed at this point. Cooper's hardly had the impact thus far that Zimmer's had -- he wasn't even a fully-established member of the rotation until Clayton Cahill went down to injury early in the Park's fourth CCIW game. And for a guy whose primary contribution at Mount Carmel was his three-point shooting, he has struggled mightily with his accuracy this season. But he's also being asked to push his game and expand it in ways that Zimmer isn't -- mostly out of necessity, as NPU's ongoing roster woes have forced Paul Brenegan to stretch his youngsters outside of their comfort zones more than Ron Rose has had to do. Cooper was not a PG in high school, but he's had to serve as NPU's PG whenever Roshawn Russell comes out of the game ever since Cahill got hurt. He's creating a lot of his shots off of the dribble -- not always good shots, but it's always encouraging to see a freshman guard who can do that in a CCIW game. And he has also been frequently asked to guard the best opposing backcourt player (especially last night, since Sean McNamee didn't suit up for the Park). He hasn't done very well at it, mind you, but at least he's being thrown into the deep end of the pool and forced to sink or swim. In the end, this is making Cooper more versatile more quickly than Zimmer.

Regarding Koschnitzky, Greg, curious if you view him as a 3 or a 4 in the CCIW.  I go back and forth on that.

The safe answer is that he'll probably evolve in whatever direction Ron Rose chooses to use him. The fact that Zimmer has become such a prominent player as a freshman for IWU leads me to believe that Rose is going to go the PF route with Koshnitzky, with Sexauer playing center. Of course, if Ryan Connolly improves his mobility to the point where Rose can't keep him off of the floor in 2009-10 or beyond, then Koshnitzky will have to evolve into a 3, with Sexauer playing the 4. I think that Koshnitzky is versatile enough to excel at either position in the CCIW, which is really saying something. There aren't a lot of freshmen that you see come into the league who make you think, "This guy could eventually be All-CCIW at either this position or that position," but Koshnitzky's definitely one of them. That year off between high school and college probably really helped him from a physical standpoint.

I think his best position down the road would be PF. With his size he could create a lot of mismatches at SF, but I think he'd have a hard time staying with smaller, quicker SFs at the other end. He could be just as dynamic an offensive threat at PF, but less prone to defensive mismatches there -- it's easier to add upper-body muscle than it is to gain quickness. But, of course, his innate versatility could be his strong suit.

Finally, let's hope those two young, inconsistent teams you saw last night are much different squads in 2009-10.  I think there is a real good chance both will be very good down the road.

Amen to both sentiments!

[79jaybird]

Egads,  well that was ugly last night.  
Simply put, Elmhurst is out of sync right now and have gone cold and the most inopportune time of the season.  Good news is that they have 3 games left to try and find their rhythm.

This game was never close and while Raymond was the main difference, a lot of it was the flat out poor play by Elmhurst.  

Elmhurst appeared to not even want to be on the floor all night.  Careless passes, no rebounding, and seemingly lack of effort by the Jays.  IMO I can live with Wheaton beating us by shooting well, but I cannot live with the lack of urgency as the season is winding down and you're in a first place dogfight.

Ruch is double or triple teamed because nobody else is stepping up.  

Right now Elmhurst is not (or at least not playing like) a tournament team.  There is no heart, they look fatigued, and not the same team that was playing strong during their 7-0 run.

They better find their stroke, rub a rabbit's foot, or something to get their stride back against NPU/NC/Car

Wheaton looked awfully good last night and as much as I would like to see them drop a few more games to give EC a chance, I don't really see that happening.

Crowds?  Well Elmhurst did have a good crowd there for a Wed. night.  They were quiet BECAUSE Elmhurst gave them nothing to cheer about.  

[Titan Q]

The safe answer is that he'll probably evolve in whatever direction Ron Rose chooses to use him. The fact that Zimmer has become such a prominent player as a freshman for IWU leads me to believe that Rose is going to go the PF route with Koshnitzky, with Sexauer playing center. Of course, if Ryan Connolly improves his mobility to the point where Rose can't keep him off of the floor in 2009-10 or beyond, then Koshnitzky will have to evolve into a 3, with Sexauer playing the 4. I think that Koshnitzky is versatile enough to excel at either position in the CCIW, which is really saying something. There aren't a lot of freshmen that you see come into the league who make you think, "This guy could eventually be All-CCIW at either this position or that position," but Koshnitzky's definitely one of them. That year off between high school and college probably really helped him from a physical standpoint.

I believe this is likely next year...

PG Rosenkranz, 6-0
SG Zimmer, 6-5 or Johnson 6-1
SF Koschnitzky, 6-6
F  ?
F/C Sexauer, 6-7

...with the remaining post spot TBD.  Filled either internally (by someone like 6-9 Ryan Connolly) or by a recruit.  IWU is one solid low-post player away from being very, very good.  It can be a good 4, moving Sexauer to the 5, or it can be a good 5, playing Sexauer at the 4. 

[Titan Q]

The high school stats wouldn't mean much even in an optimal situation -- after all, we're talking about a player who has almost a full season of college ball under his belt now -- but they're even more meaningless in the context of a player coming out of a Class 1A situation. It's one thing to "do it all" against some six-foot teenaged farmboy who's biding time between his high school's football and baseball seasons by playing basketball, and it's another thing entirely to "do it all" against CCIW competition.

The fact of the matter is that Zimmer doesn't appear to be anything other than a spot-up shooter at this point. And you're right, he's a very good one -- his treys from the deep corner were instrumental in that big IWU first-half run. But I don't know if he dribbled the ball even once during the entire game -- if he caught a pass and didn't have a shot, he passed it right back out again. He's played in all of Wesleyan's 22 games, and is averaging 18 mpg -- and yet he's only taken eleven free throw attempts the entire season. That's a mind-boggling statistic; you'd think that a player who averages almost an entire half of playing time thru 22 games would have at least twice as many FTAs simply by incidental game flow, if nothing else. And as far as defense is concerned, he couldn't guard a dustpan in a broom closet -- a trait he shares with a lot of other IWU and NPU underclassmen who were on the floor last night.

Yeah, it's entirely possible that Zimmer will evolve and become a well-rounded CCIW player. As you said, he's got that nice tall frame, and he's certainly getting all the early varsity experience he can handle. But it's hardly a sure thing, and his high-school background doesn't really have any relevance to the issue at this point.

I think a player's high school style of play is very relevant in projecting what kind of college player they will become.  As a freshman and sophomore in high school, Jordan Zimmer was strictly a spot-up 3-point shooter...just as he is now as a FR at IWU.  But he worked hard to become a complete player as a junior and senior.  He now faces the same challenge at the college level.  The competition is stronger and quicker (and more experienced most of the time) than he is right now, and he will have to work hard to become that complete player.  But he does have the skill set to do it.

I've always thought that, in very simple terms, excelling at the college level is figuring out how to do exactly what you did as a high school stud at the new level.  Most great high school players can't come into even a great Division III league like the CCIW and do the same things they did in H.S. (what Steve Djurickovic has done is amazing and the exception to the rule).  Typically that process involves a) getting stronger, and b) gaining experience.

Jordan Zimmer does not have this kind of ceiling, but Bryan Crabtree (IWU '97) went through the same thing.  Bryan was strictly a spot-up shooter as a freshman and sophomore at IWU - either made 3's or 18 footers.  Midway through his junior year, he became a multi-dimensional offensive player.  Learned when and where to pick his spots with dribble drive...finally understood how to take advantage of how people defended his deadly 3-point shot...was stronger and able to initiate and handle contact...was mentally tougher than his FR and SO seasons.  Bryan came from a big high school - Wheaton North - where as a JR and SR there, he was the same multi-dimensional player he became as a JR and SR at IWU.  Yet as a FR and SO at IWU, he just hung around the arc waiting for the ball...and people (including me) who had not seen him in H.S. thought that's all he was.

I think the style a kid plays in H.S. and his skillset is very relevant.  We'll see what becomes of Jordan Zimmer, but I think his game will change a lot over the years at IWU.

[iwumichigander]

Pantagraph article on tonight's IWU-NPU game...

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2009/02/11/usports/doc49924b29ea27d121213652.txt

"Anytime you play at the 'Crackerbox' you better be ready to play," Rose said of North Park's cozy confines.

And you need a cardiac team on site - while IWU holds a 7-3 record at the "crackerbox" it did not come easy - Games decided by 1 Point (2); by 2 Pts (2); by 3 pts (1); by OT (1) with NPU winning 2 of those 6 tightly contested battles; and, the Titans have lost the last two contests in the 'box' to NPU's credit

... none of which is relevant to tonight's game. ....

I understand Ron Rose's need to play up his opponent, but the fact remains that NPU is going to have an uphill struggle to stay in tonight's game, much less win it.

Would you like to retract your statements now or later?  IWU 67 NPU 64

I'll retract it now, but with three minutes left in the first half and IWU up by 21 points over an NPU team that looked like a flock of headless chickens, I was all set to give you an "I told you so."

To be honest, I thought with a 12 point lead and about 4:23 - game over and Greg will be posting "i told you so'    I stepped away to catch up on Duke/UNC to come back to 'Titans have missed 5 of 6 free throws and its now 4 point ball game'

[Gregory Sager]

I disagree, Bob, for the simple reason that high school is a completely different level of competition. Unless you're a Djurickovic or a Raymond or a Ruch you can do all sorts of things in high school that you can't do in college -- and how many Djurickovics or Raymonds or Ruchs come thru the CCIW? That's especially true when you're talking about Class 1A as the starting point and the CCIW as the destination. You can see a player exhibit all sorts of facets to his game against modest high-school competition that he might never be able to master as a collegian in a top-flight small-college league.

In other words, Zimmer's skill set when he was playing the likes of Mount Pulaski and Hartsburg-Emden isn't really relevant. What is relevant is the skill set that he is currently forging for himself against NPU, Augie, Elmhurst, Wheaton, etc. That, plus his physical attributes (his already-noted height and the fact that he has at least the minimal quickness required of a CCIW perimeter player), his playing time, and his work ethic will determine how successful or unsuccessful he will be at diversifying his game on the collegiate level.