MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[cardinalpride]

Latest D3 pollis out.  Wheaton is 7th, Elmhurst is 21st, Augustana is 26th, and North Central is 39th.

And #39 has beaten #7 and #26. Tough conference!

I would argue this isn't really true. But we will see soon enough!  8)

You're right!  They were 6th at the time! 

[usee]

In PaBeggs playoff projections on front page NCC is listed as a "probable" pool C team.

[Titan Q]

In PaBeggs playoff projections on front page NCC is listed as a "probable" pool C team.

But two more losses would most likely put them outside looking in, and NCC has at least 3 tough games left (vs Elmhurst, @ Wheaton, conference tournament).

The conference tournament might hurt the league this year.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

In PaBeggs playoff projections on front page NCC is listed as a "probable" pool C team.

But two more losses would most likely put them outside looking in, and NCC has at least 3 tough games left (vs Elmhurst, @ Wheaton, conference tournament).

The conference tournament might hurt the league this year.

Absolutely correct.

Let's say Wheaton wins the league title and then wins the tournament.  That's at least one more loss for all the contenders.  I'd say Wheaton is now a lock for the NCAA tournament, but any other contender needs to win out.

dgp

[coebball70]

A key insider shared with me today that most likely the CCIW will get three teams to the Dance because the IIAC will only have one team qualify this year.

[Titan Q]

I look at the NCAA tournament chances this way...


Wheaton: In for sure, either as Pool A or Pool C.

North Central: to get in as a Pool C, has to win two more games (including conf tourney)

Elmhurst: to get in as a Pool C, has to win two more games (including conf tourney)

Augustana: needs to get in, win conference tournament

Carthage: needs to get in, win conference tournament


Patrick Abegg's detailed breakdown is here:

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.2025

Also discussed on the frontpage.

[Titan Q]

Also note that NCC and Elmhurst play each other Wednesday, and will most likely again square off in the CCIW conference tournament semifinal game (Friday).  That loss could knock one out of a Pool C bid.

Those that billed the conference tournament as a sure fire way to get more teams in, sure didn't think it through very carefully.

[Naperick]

Those that billed the conference tournament as a sure fire way to get more teams in, sure didn't think it through very carefully.

I agree.  I was wrong.  When the regular season champ wins the conference tourney, it really hurts the other schools chances.

[Gregory Sager]

Also note that NCC and Elmhurst play each other Wednesday, and will most likely again square off in the CCIW conference tournament semifinal game (Friday).  That loss could knock one out of a Pool C bid.

Those that billed the conference tournament as a sure fire way to get more teams in, sure didn't think it through very carefully.

As we've said all along in this room since the tourney was instituted for the 2005-06 season, some years it'll help get an extra CCIW team into the dance, but a lot of years it will have the opposite effect. Because intraleague cannibalization will likely leave us with only one team that can garner a Pool C berth in spite of a CCIW tourney loss (Wheaton), whereas a CCIW tourney loss will probably be the Pool C death knell of one or more teams, this'll most likely be one of those years in which the CCIW tourney hurts the league.

What's remarkable about that is the fact that the CCIW collectively did so much to situate itself in a great position in November and December. Of the five contending teams, only Carthage (3-2 in region) did itself no favors prior to league play. Wheaton (7-0), Elmhurst (9-2), Augustana (8-2), and North Central (5-1) all set themselves up nicely in non-con play, at least as far as regional records are concerned.

Here's some recommended reading.

This is the kind of scenario that in a couple of weeks could have many people saying that the possible elimination of the CCIW tournament for economic reasons might not be such a bad thing after all.
 

[Gregory Sager]

I'll add, though, that this would've been a great year for an eight-team conference tournament. Because everyone did so well outside of the conference, the only team that will end up with a losing regional record is North Park -- and likely #1 Wheaton wouldn't be at all damaged in OWP by beating NPU in the conference tourney, since the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance is getting a bid no matter what.

In other words, the CCIW tourney semifinalists would all pick up an extra win over a team that has a winning regional record, thereby enhancing their Pool C chances.

[petemcb]

I know we've said it before, but who you schedule really does matter at a time like this.  I'm looking at Carthage's pre-conference (did I get that right? ) schedule and I see several games that just don't matter in March and it's frustrating.  An 89-68 win over Hope followed by a 95-82 win over Calvin.....and neither of them count for anything. An 84-69 win over Keene State that I believe doesn't count for anything.  A loss to NAIA Olivet Nazarene and a win over NAIA Trinity International don't factor in. If those games were in-region, Carthage would have a much stronger case to make to the decision-makers in a couple of weeks.  Really frustrating after spending January and February beating up on each other.

[Gregory Sager]

I know we've said it before, but who you schedule really does matter at a time like this.  I'm looking at Carthage's pre-conference (did I get that right? ) schedule and I see several games that just don't matter in March and it's frustrating.  An 89-68 win over Hope followed by a 95-82 win over Calvin.....and neither of them count for anything. An 84-69 win over Keene State that I believe doesn't count for anything.  A loss to NAIA Olivet Nazarene and a win over NAIA Trinity International don't factor in. If those games were in-region, Carthage would have a much stronger case to make to the decision-makers in a couple of weeks.  Really frustrating after spending January and February beating up on each other.

The Hope and Calvin games usually are a boon to Carthage in terms of strengthening the Red Men by playing tough December competition, even though they're meaningless contests in the eyes of the D3 selection committee. This year, not so much -- both Calvin and Hope were significantly below their usual standards when they showed up at King Arena in December, although I can't speak as to where they're at now. But, yeah, I'm still unhappy about the fact that NPU's former men's and women's head coaches declined the invitation for the Park to be the fourth participant in the CCIW/MIAA Classic back when it was established in 2004, especially since it would've meant that every game except Wheaton vs. Calvin would be in-region in that tournament every year.

You can make a strength-of-schedule argument for Carthage playing Olivet Nazarene as well, and Keene State was a snowbird game (which usually means potluck in terms of who you play, unless you have a specific straight-up opponent a la Redlands or Cal Lutheran). But Silver Lake and Trinity International were wasted dates, and when you add up all of the non-regional contests it's plain to see that Pete's right: Carthage did not schedule effectively this season.

[voxelmhurst]

Elmhurst scheduled a 100% in region schedule after years of being left out of Pool C.
The 2006/2007 season was probably their most legitimate gripe about not getting in, and I remember Coach Scherer saying how the D3 national tournament was not a national tournament at all but an invitational.  That being said, it looks like Elmhurst will once again be on that Pool C bubble this season, though I certainly believe they still control their status up to a large extent (two wins to close regular season and one win in Tourney).  I just don't happen to see them beating Wheaton in a CCIW Final.

My radical idea if I were the D3 Powers to Be:

The team that finishes 1st is declared CCIW Champion and gains automatic entry into national tournament.

Teams 2-5 then play a tournament, hosted by the school who finished second, and the winner of this tournament is also granted a birth into national tournament.

Any other teams must go through Pool C.

This would eliminate the chance of the top team "taking up 2 spots" so to speak, it would reward the top team for winning the regular season, and it would make the season more exciting for the schools and the fans by adding another team in the mix.

Again, a radical idea because I know the chances of the CCIW getting two automatic entries is about as likely as 90 degree weather in February, but I just don't see what the first place team has to gain in a conference tourney, as well as believing that this conference should always have two teams representing it in what should always be a properly selected national tournament.

[Titan Q]

My radical idea if I were the D3 Powers to Be:

The team that finishes 1st is declared CCIW Champion and gains automatic entry into national tournament.

Teams 2-5 then play a tournament, hosted by the school who finished second, and the winner of this tournament is also granted a birth into national tournament.

Any other teams must go through Pool C.

The CCIW gets one Automatic Qualifier, just like the WIAC and every other league.  The NCAA can't automatically assign a second bid to certain leagues just because they are usually strong...what about seasons where there is only one tournament-worthy team? 

In my opinion, this is simple.  The CCIW should go back to letting its teams play their 11 non-conference games and 14 CCIW games, then let the records speak for themselves on selection day.  In the non-conference, schedule smart and win games.   In a league with a) multiple tournament-caliber teams each season, and b) parity, it just makes no sense to have the top Pool C candidates play each other and worsen their in-region winning % in the conference tournament. 

[dansand]

OK...For Augustana fans, if the Vikings can beat IWU on Saturday, I believe there are 16 remaining scenarios. Here are the results of each:

|---Wednesday--|  |---Saturday---|  CCIW 
Whe@Car  Elm@NCC  Car@Elm  NCC@Whe  Tourn Host  Augie finishes...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whe      Elm      Car      NCC      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Car      Whe      Wheaton     2-way tie for 2nd place--3rd seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Elm      NCC      Elmhurst    2-way tie for 3rd--4th seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3rd place--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Car      NCC      NCC         3rd place--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Car      Whe      Wheaton     2-way tie for 2nd place--3rd seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Elm      NCC      NCC         2-way tie for 3rd place--4th seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Car      NCC      Elmhurst    5-way tie for 1st place--Out of CCIW Tournament
Car      Elm      Car      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Elm      NCC      Elmhurst    3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3rd place--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Car      NCC      NCC         3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--play NCC in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Car      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--play Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Elm      NCC      NCC         3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CIW semis

I think these are correct. If not, I apologize in advance.

Please remember, this is contingent on Augie beating Illinois Wesleyan on Saturday.