MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwumichigander]

My radical idea if I were the D3 Powers to Be:

The team that finishes 1st is declared CCIW Champion and gains automatic entry into national tournament.

Teams 2-5 then play a tournament, hosted by the school who finished second, and the winner of this tournament is also granted a birth into national tournament.

Any other teams must go through Pool C.

The CCIW gets one Automatic Qualifier, just like the WIAC and every other league.  The NCAA can't automatically assign a second bid to certain leagues just because they are usually strong...what about seasons where there is only one tournament-worthy team? 

In my opinion, this is simple.  The CCIW should go back to letting its teams play their 11 non-conference games and 14 CCIW games, then let the records speak for themselves on selection day.  In the non-conference, schedule smart and win games.   In a league with a) multiple tournament-caliber teams each season, and b) parity, it just makes no sense to have the top Pool C candidates play each other and worsen their in-region winning % in the conference tournament. 

Q - I would generally agree with an exception or two.  I'd like to see the NCAA re-visit the "in-region" criteria to consider modification:
1) Expand the "in-region" distance; and/or
2) Include a "cross-conference" designation when two 'neighbor' conferences contract to a non-conference tournament - for example, with the CCIW/MIAA tournament - all teams in both conferences would be considered "in region" even when the contest is not part of the non-conference tournament; and/or
3) Include a "cross-conference" designation when two 'neighbor' conferences agree among the members to contract two or more non-conference home/away games regardless of mileage.  In other words, if two CCIW/HCAC teams agree to contract a 'home/away' series, then other members of the CCIW and HCAC could schedule a single non-conference game which would be considered 'in-region' regardless of the 'in-region mileage band'.
Under #s 2 and 3, the two conferences' commissioners would have to register the declaration with the NCAA a minimum of xx days prior to official first practice day and certify that each conference agreed to the declaration in accordance to the conference by-laws.

[REDMENFAN]

About Carthage's scheduling this year, don't forget they were put in a tough position not being able to play a home game until January. I forget the exact number off the top of my head, but they were into double digit amount of games before they even played at home. Obviously a situation that rarely happens, if ever at most schools.

[Titan Q]

My radical idea if I were the D3 Powers to Be:

The team that finishes 1st is declared CCIW Champion and gains automatic entry into national tournament.

Teams 2-5 then play a tournament, hosted by the school who finished second, and the winner of this tournament is also granted a birth into national tournament.

Any other teams must go through Pool C.

The CCIW gets one Automatic Qualifier, just like the WIAC and every other league.  The NCAA can't automatically assign a second bid to certain leagues just because they are usually strong...what about seasons where there is only one tournament-worthy team? 

In my opinion, this is simple.  The CCIW should go back to letting its teams play their 11 non-conference games and 14 CCIW games, then let the records speak for themselves on selection day.  In the non-conference, schedule smart and win games.   In a league with a) multiple tournament-caliber teams each season, and b) parity, it just makes no sense to have the top Pool C candidates play each other and worsen their in-region winning % in the conference tournament. 

Q - I would generally agree with an exception or two.  I'd like to see the NCAA re-visit the "in-region" criteria to consider modification:
1) Expand the "in-region" distance; and/or
2) Include a "cross-conference" designation when two 'neighbor' conferences contract to a non-conference tournament - for example, with the CCIW/MIAA tournament - all teams in both conferences would be considered "in region" even when the contest is not part of the non-conference tournament; and/or
3) Include a "cross-conference" designation when two 'neighbor' conferences agree among the members to contract two or more non-conference home/away games regardless of mileage.  In other words, if two CCIW/HCAC teams agree to contract a 'home/away' series, then other members of the CCIW and HCAC could schedule a single non-conference game which would be considered 'in-region' regardless of the 'in-region mileage band'.
Under #s 2 and 3, the two conferences' commissioners would have to register the declaration with the NCAA a minimum of xx days prior to official first practice day and certify that each conference agreed to the declaration in accordance to the conference by-laws.

I would like to see every D3 game count.  But that said...

As is, CCIW teams can play any Midwest or West school and have it be considered in-region... 

http://www.d3hoops.com/region/midwest/mens

http://www.d3hoops.com/region/west/mens


Any CCIW games vs teams from the SLIAC, MWC, NathCon, HCAC, WIAC, IIAC, NWC, SCIAC, MIAC, etc. are already considered in-region.


Also, every Texas school is in-region...

http://www.d3hoops.com/region/south/mens


Last year IWU played @ Occidental (Los Angeles, CA) and @ Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (Claremont, CA) on a Christmas trip - both in-region.  Next year will play Southwestern (Tx) and Trinity (Tx) in San Antonio - both in-region.


And then you have the 200-mile rule which brings a few others in - like DePauw and Wabash for IWU (both within 200 miles of Bloomington).

CCIW teams have plenty of options in building their schedules.

[Titan Q]

About Carthage's scheduling this year, don't forget they were put in a tough position not being able to play a home game until January. I forget the exact number off the top of my head, but they were into double digit amount of games before they even played at home. Obviously a situation that rarely happens, if ever at most schools.

Teams can always find road games...home games can be the challenge at times.

[Naperick]

My radical idea if I were the D3 Powers to Be:

The team that finishes 1st is declared CCIW Champion and gains automatic entry into national tournament.

Teams 2-5 then play a tournament, hosted by the school who finished second, and the winner of this tournament is also granted a birth into national tournament.

Any other teams must go through Pool C.

The CCIW gets one Automatic Qualifier, just like the WIAC and every other league.  The NCAA can't automatically assign a second bid to certain leagues just because they are usually strong...what about seasons where there is only one tournament-worthy team? 

In my opinion, this is simple.  The CCIW should go back to letting its teams play their 11 non-conference games and 14 CCIW games, then let the records speak for themselves on selection day.  In the non-conference, schedule smart and win games.   In a league with a) multiple tournament-caliber teams each season, and b) parity, it just makes no sense to have the top Pool C candidates play each other and worsen their in-region winning % in the conference tournament. 

Titan Q is right on!  The CCIW Tourney is not working.  The last 2 regular season champions [Augustana] have won the conference tournament.  The other CCIW tourney qualifiers are weakened with another "in-region" loss.  End the conference tournament!  I doubt it makes any money anyway.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

OK...For Augustana fans, if the Vikings can beat IWU on Saturday, I believe there are 16 remaining scenarios. Here are the results of each:

|---Wednesday--|  |---Saturday---|  CCIW 
Whe@Car  Elm@NCC  Car@Elm  NCC@Whe  Tourn Host  Augie finishes...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whe      Elm      Car      NCC      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Car      Whe      Wheaton     2-way tie for 2nd place--3rd seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Elm      NCC      Elmhurst    2-way tie for 3rd--4th seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3rd place--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Car      NCC      NCC         3rd place--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Car      Whe      Wheaton     2-way tie for 2nd place--3rd seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Elm      NCC      NCC         2-way tie for 3rd place--4th seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Car      NCC      Elmhurst    5-way tie for 1st place--Out of CCIW Tournament
Car      Elm      Car      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Elm      NCC      Elmhurst    3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3rd place--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Car      NCC      NCC         3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--play NCC in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Car      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--play Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Elm      NCC      NCC         3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CIW semis

I think these are correct. If not, I apologize in advance.

Please remember, this is contingent on Augie beating Illinois Wesleyan on Saturday.

nice work - dan sand - +K for you

however

you seriously need a life (or wife), whichever one will take you away from this insanity.   

dgp

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm sure the Titans will go all out to render dansand's effort all for naught!

[Gregory Sager]

Titan Q is right on!  The CCIW Tourney is not working.  The last 2 regular season champions [Augustana] have won the conference tournament.  The other CCIW tourney qualifiers are weakened with another "in-region" loss.  End the conference tournament!  I doubt it makes any money anyway.

What we have to remember is that the CCIW's presidents and ADs tend to make decisions based upon how they affect the entire array of the league's sponsored sports, not just one sport in particular. My guess is that the men's basketball tourney probably does alright financially, if last year's attendance figures are any indication -- and keep in mind that Augustana is one of the league's two most remote outposts, making the tourney less conducive to multi-school attendance whenever it's held there. But men's basketball is by far the most popular CCIW team sport in terms of attendance (aside from football, which doesn't have a league tournament), and I doubt whether any of the other CCIW team-sport tourneys are making money. I attended the women's basketball tourney in centrally-located Wheaton a few years ago, and the turnout was dismal. Unless a men's or women's soccer tourney is held at NPU or Wheaton, I doubt that it draws much. Volleyball? Softball? Who knows?

The reason why the conference's braintrust is contemplating the elimination of the men's basketball tourney isn't because of its effect upon Pool C berths. It's because of economic reasons, and the decision is one that will be made in tandem with other CCIW team sports.

[79jaybird]

For the record- I am not in favor of the CCIW Tournament and never was.  I think the CCIW regular season is grueling enough.  Win your league and you're in.  Then if you have a sparkling record and not your conf. champ,  perhaps you might get a look at the at large berth.

[Naperick]

Titan Q is right on!  The CCIW Tourney is not working.  The last 2 regular season champions [Augustana] have won the conference tournament.  The other CCIW tourney qualifiers are weakened with another "in-region" loss.  End the conference tournament!  I doubt it makes any money anyway.

What we have to remember is that the CCIW's presidents and ADs tend to make decisions based upon how they affect the entire array of the league's sponsored sports, not just one sport in particular. My guess is that the men's basketball tourney probably does alright financially, if last year's attendance figures are any indication -- and keep in mind that Augustana is one of the league's two most remote outposts, making the tourney less conducive to multi-school attendance whenever it's held there. But men's basketball is by far the most popular CCIW team sport in terms of attendance (aside from football, which doesn't have a league tournament), and I doubt whether any of the other CCIW team-sport tourneys are making money. I attended the women's basketball tourney in centrally-located Wheaton a few years ago, and the turnout was dismal. Unless a men's or women's soccer tourney is held at NPU or Wheaton, I doubt that it draws much. Volleyball? Softball? Who knows?

The reason why the conference's braintrust is contemplating the elimination of the men's basketball tourney isn't because of its effect upon Pool C berths. It's because of economic reasons, and the decision is one that will be made in tandem with other CCIW team sports.

Thanks for the information.  I didn't realize the other sports were a factor.

[dansand]

OK...For Augustana fans, if the Vikings can beat IWU on Saturday, I believe there are 16 remaining scenarios. Here are the results of each:

|---Wednesday--|  |---Saturday---|  CCIW 
Whe@Car  Elm@NCC  Car@Elm  NCC@Whe  Tourn Host  Augie finishes...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whe      Elm      Car      NCC      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Car      Whe      Wheaton     2-way tie for 2nd place--3rd seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Elm      NCC      Elmhurst    2-way tie for 3rd--4th seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3rd place--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Car      NCC      NCC         3rd place--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Car      Whe      Wheaton     2-way tie for 2nd place--3rd seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Elm      NCC      NCC         2-way tie for 3rd place--4th seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Car      NCC      Elmhurst    5-way tie for 1st place--Out of CCIW Tournament
Car      Elm      Car      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Elm      NCC      Elmhurst    3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3rd place--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Car      NCC      NCC         3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--play NCC in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Car      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--play Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Elm      NCC      NCC         3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CIW semis

I think these are correct. If not, I apologize in advance.

Please remember, this is contingent on Augie beating Illinois Wesleyan on Saturday.

nice work - dan sand - +K for you

however

you seriously need a life (or wife), whichever one will take you away from this insanity.   

dgp

Thanks Dennis,

I won't argue the "life" portion of that, but Q has a wife and he has 7 times as many posts as I do.

[markerickson]

The following is part of a larger article from the Chronicle for Higher Education:

Calvin College recently suspended a student for a year after he purportedly posted an offensive message on his Facebook profile and then refused to post an apology when the dean's office instructed him to do so.  Tony Harris, a sophomore at the Christian Reformed Church-affiliated college, said he was in a restaurant with two friends last fall, without access to the Internet, when his Facebook "status" message was updated to read, "Tony is laughing at that dumb ho. That's why her and that marshmallow-ass boyfriend needs to get a life because I [expletive ] his [expletive] and she got an abortion."

Mr. Harris said he did not write the message, a position he has maintained throughout a lengthy disciplinary process. He said he had shared his password with a female Calvin student whom he dated last summer. The couple broke up in the fall, and Mr. Harris said he suspects she logged into his account and wrote the status update herself, presumably to frame him. He said he rarely uses Facebook and noticed only when an adviser told him of the offensive language that his status had been updated several times since the breakup without his knowledge.

Reprimanding students for unbecoming use of social media is not unusual at Calvin. The college's "Policy on Responsible Use of Technology" forbids "any use of Web life (Facebook, MySpace, etc.) that is contradictory to the principles of the college codes of conduct."  end.

Watch what you post on D3Hoops, undergrads!!

Reprimanding students for unbecoming use of social media is not unusual at Calvin?  Holy sh**, Batman!

[titan2000]

Elmhurst scheduled a 100% in region schedule after years of being left out of Pool C.
The 2006/2007 season was probably their most legitimate gripe about not getting in, and I remember Coach Scherer saying how the D3 national tournament was not a national tournament at all but an invitational.  That being said, it looks like Elmhurst will once again be on that Pool C bubble this season, though I certainly believe they still control their status up to a large extent (two wins to close regular season and one win in Tourney).  I just don't happen to see them beating Wheaton in a CCIW Final.

My radical idea if I were the D3 Powers to Be:

The team that finishes 1st is declared CCIW Champion and gains automatic entry into national tournament.

Teams 2-5 then play a tournament, hosted by the school who finished second, and the winner of this tournament is also granted a birth into national tournament.

Any other teams must go through Pool C.

This would eliminate the chance of the top team "taking up 2 spots" so to speak, it would reward the top team for winning the regular season, and it would make the season more exciting for the schools and the fans by adding another team in the mix.

Again, a radical idea because I know the chances of the CCIW getting two automatic entries is about as likely as 90 degree weather in February, but I just don't see what the first place team has to gain in a conference tourney, as well as believing that this conference should always have two teams representing it in what should always be a properly selected national tournament.

Your post is indicative of the superiority complex the CCIW faithful have and should get rid of soon.  If you are serious, you have an opinion of your conference that is not held widely outside of Illinois, if there.   

[Late nite]

OK...For Augustana fans, if the Vikings can beat IWU on Saturday, I believe there are 16 remaining scenarios. Here are the results of each:

|---Wednesday--|  |---Saturday---|  CCIW 
Whe@Car  Elm@NCC  Car@Elm  NCC@Whe  Tourn Host  Augie finishes...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whe      Elm      Car      NCC      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Car      Whe      Wheaton     2-way tie for 2nd place--3rd seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Elm      NCC      Elmhurst    2-way tie for 3rd--4th seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      Elm      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3rd place--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Car      NCC      NCC         3rd place--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Car      Whe      Wheaton     2-way tie for 2nd place--3rd seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Elm      NCC      NCC         2-way tie for 3rd place--4th seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Whe      NCC      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Car      NCC      Elmhurst    5-way tie for 1st place--Out of CCIW Tournament
Car      Elm      Car      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Elm      NCC      Elmhurst    3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Car      Elm      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3rd place--plays Elmhurst in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Car      NCC      NCC         3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--play NCC in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Car      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--play Wheaton in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Elm      NCC      NCC         3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays NCC in CCIW semis
Car      NCC      Elm      Whe      Wheaton     3-way tie for 2nd place--4th seed--plays Wheaton in CIW semis

I think these are correct. If not, I apologize in advance.

Please remember, this is contingent on Augie beating Illinois Wesleyan on Saturday.

I have never seen the league more competitive---It doesn't matter which order the teams finish---I have seen all the teams play more than once, and athough Wheaton seems to be the favorite at this point, any of the other 3 teams are legitimate threats and perfectly capable of winning 2 games in 2 days---I realize that the conference tourney has always been very competitive, but I don't believe that there was a time when all 4 teams had a realistic shot at winning the tourney---There were always 1 or 2 teams that were a just shade below the favorites---All the teams are pretty much upper-class dominated---Who's hungry??

[REDMENFAN]

Should be a good atmosphere in Kenosha tonight for Carthage's final home game and senior night. Here's the Kenosha News preview of tonight's contest.

http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/thunder_comes_in___on_a_roll_4396975.html