MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[74impala]

Is it my imagination or are the acoustics in the TARC really poor?  I was sitting next to Wheels81 and we both thought the place sounded lifeless. Only when they played music over the PA was there any energy in the place(subwoofers were cranked).  I'll have to talk to some Wheaton players to get their feelings on the noise level.  While the place is beautiful, I'm not sure how much of a home court advantage it is since it's seemingly as quiet as the library.

[usee]

Ryan Burks' scoring had been down a bit heading into tonight - 14.8 ppg in CCIW play (17.4 ppg last year and exactly the same his soph year, 17.4 ppg).  He came to play tonight in a huge game - 28 points on 9-13 FG (4-6 3-pt) and 5 rebounds.

After tonight, Burks is now averaging 15.8 ppg in CCIW play with one big game to play.

He's on a roll, though: 53 points in his last two games.

I would imagine that Cody Hilton will have the dubious duty of guarding him on Saturday night.

Who knows who will guard Burks. A couple of games ago, against NCC, Hilton didn't even start. Steve Ideran made only his 3rd start of the season and his 1st in conference play. When Hilton did come in, he hit two threes, and Bosko promptly took him out, replacing him with someone who would pass the ball to his son.   

Hilton is a 5'11" shooter. Ever since high school at Glenbard East in Lombard, IL thats what he has been known for.  I'd be surprised to see this 5'11" slower than average player defending the much quicker, taller, Burks.

If it helps you to believe, AndOne, then I'll mention that Cody Hilton started last night with the assignment of guarding Kent Raymond.  He was fast enough that Raymond really didn't have his typical influence on the game.  Fifteen points, many of which were from the free throw line resulting from fouls that were not Hilton's, is a sub-par game for Raymond.  What I heard was that Raymond was Hilton's assignment for the night.  Apparently, the Carthage staff felt Hilton was quick enough and athletic enough to guard the 6'3" All-American.  It appeared that the plan was to let Panner have his shots and try to take Raymond out of the flow of the game as much as possible.  I'd say Carthage succeeded at that.  Carthage led for much of this game and I don't think anyone would have bet on a 4 point game up in Kenosha last night.  "Slower than average"?  You might need a larger body of work on which to evaluate him.  Hilton is one of the better athletes on the Red Men.  Last night, it looked like Bosko recognized that with his defensive assignments.   

Cody Hilton did not guard Raymond 1 on 1 last night. If he had Raymond would have had double the points he did have. They doubled Raymond off every screen and generally tried to keep it out of his and Wiele's hands with a matchup zone. Do you really think Ben Panner tried 18 3 pointers because he was "feeling hot"?? No, it's because he was left wide open all night and Bosko decided Raymond and Wiele were not going to beat him. Raymond took far fewer shots than usual (2-8) but got to the line 12 times. Wiele also only took 5 shots so the Thunder simply showed everybody they can beat you in another way. This is the first game they gave up over 50% shooting and won. They won, as Greg said, because they dominated the boards. Kenosha is a tough place to get a win and Carthage had everything to lose but Wheaton still found a way. That's a great win.

[usee]

Ok. the gloves are off and the game is on.

Let me first say that I expect a great game vs NCC on Saturday night from a well coached, disciplined team that has played well together this year. I think it will be close and NCC has had Wheaton's number the last few years so I don't expect anything other than a great performance from the Cardinals.

That said, I have to say I am really tired of the abused stepchild drum that AndOne is beating repeatedly. The ONES WHO VOTED are the coaches and personally they weren't that far off. They voted the Cardinal 6th and it looks like they are on their way to 3rd or 4th. WHO CARES? you keep touting your win against Wheaton when EVERYONE knows they weren't close to full strength. NCC played great and was definitely the better team that night but don't use that game as a measuring stick of you season because no one else does. Use THIS game!! Wheaton is at full strength. Run your mouth if you win Saturday (an NCC win is a distinct possibility--AO running his mouth is a given) but please stop insulting everyones intelligence with your "win against #7".

I pause here to say this is not a post against NCC because I see a win saturday as a distinct possibility. I am just tired of AndOne's Lou Holtz style posts. NCC is currently 2-3 against the other likely teams in the conference tournament  and 0-2 in THEIR gyms. This Saturday would be a signature win and if they do it the "old fashioned way" they will get all the kudos they deserve. Up to now NCC has been a good team and has won some games no one thought they would. They have also lost some games they absolutely should not have lost if they want to be a top team (home against IWU, @millikin).

Good luck to the Cardinals Saturday. Bring your A game, leave it all on the floor. You are playing a great team with all their guns in top form. No excuses, and may the best team win!

I feel better now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.........

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Ok. the gloves are off and the game is on.

Let me first say that I expect a great game vs NCC on Saturday night from a well coached, disciplined team that has played well together this year. I think it will be close and NCC has had Wheaton's number the last few years so I don't expect anything other than a great performance from the Cardinals.

That said, I have to say I am really tired of the abused stepchild drum that AndOne is beating repeatedly. The ONES WHO VOTED are the coaches and personally they weren't that far off. They voted the Cardinal 6th and it looks like they are on their way to 3rd or 4th. WHO CARES? you keep touting your win against Wheaton when EVERYONE knows they weren't close to full strength. NCC played great and was definitely the better team that night but don't use that game as a measuring stick of you season because no one else does. Use THIS game!! Wheaton is at full strength. Run your mouth if you win Saturday (an NCC win is a distinct possibility--AO running his mouth is a given) but please stop insulting everyones intelligence with your "win against #7".

I pause here to say this is not a post against NCC because I see a win saturday as a distinct possibility. I am just tired of AndOne's Lou Holtz style posts. NCC is currently 2-3 against the other likely teams in the conference tournament  and 0-2 in THEIR gyms. This Saturday would be a signature win and if you do it the "old fashioned way" you will get all the kudos you deserve. Up to now NCC has been a good team and has won some games no one thought they would. They have also lost some games they absolutely should not have lost if they want to be a top team (home against IWU, @millikin).

Good luck to the Cardinals Saturday. Bring your A game, leave it all on the floor. You are playing a great team with all their guns in top form. No excuses, leave it all on the floor and may the best team win!

I feel better now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.........

Geez Usee - get a life - this is a basketball game, not rampant unemployment, disintegrating trust in public officials, or runaway deflation and recession.

Get a grip.

dgp

[74impala]

Ok. the gloves are off and the game is on.

Let me first say that I expect a great game vs NCC on Saturday night from a well coached, disciplined team that has played well together this year. I think it will be close and NCC has had Wheaton's number the last few years so I don't expect anything other than a great performance from the Cardinals.

That said, I have to say I am really tired of the abused stepchild drum that AndOne is beating repeatedly. The ONES WHO VOTED are the coaches and personally they weren't that far off. They voted the Cardinal 6th and it looks like they are on their way to 3rd or 4th. WHO CARES? you keep touting your win against Wheaton when EVERYONE knows they weren't close to full strength. NCC played great and was definitely the better team that night but don't use that game as a measuring stick of you season because no one else does. Use THIS game!! Wheaton is at full strength. Run your mouth if you win Saturday (an NCC win is a distinct possibility--AO running his mouth is a given) but please stop insulting everyones intelligence with your "win against #7".

I pause here to say this is not a post against NCC because I see a win saturday as a distinct possibility. I am just tired of AndOne's Lou Holtz style posts. NCC is currently 2-3 against the other likely teams in the conference tournament  and 0-2 in THEIR gyms. This Saturday would be a signature win and if you do it the "old fashioned way" you will get all the kudos you deserve. Up to now NCC has been a good team and has won some games no one thought they would. They have also lost some games they absolutely should not have lost if they want to be a top team (home against IWU, @millikin).

Good luck to the Cardinals Saturday. Bring your A game, leave it all on the floor. You are playing a great team with all their guns in top form. No excuses, leave it all on the floor and may the best team win!

I feel better now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.........

Thanks for saying what a few of us have been thinking.

[petemcb]

Is it my imagination or are the acoustics in the TARC really poor?  I was sitting next to Wheels81 and we both thought the place sounded lifeless. Only when they played music over the PA was there any energy in the place(subwoofers were cranked).  I'll have to talk to some Wheaton players to get their feelings on the noise level.  While the place is beautiful, I'm not sure how much of a home court advantage it is since it's seemingly as quiet as the library.

You might have indirectly answered your own question.  The acoustics seemed fine to me.  As you pointed out, when the music was playing there was plenty of energy in the place.  Where I was sitting, the stands were literally vibrating.  What was "lifeless" and "quiet as a library" was the student section opposite the benches.  The requisite wacky student section that locates itself at one end of the floor in most gyms was there and vocal for Carthage, but the larger group of students across from the teams didn't really get visibly involved in the game until the last couple of minutes.  They should take a cue from their red-blazered President.......

[wheels81]

Ryan Burks' scoring had been down a bit heading into tonight - 14.8 ppg in CCIW play (17.4 ppg last year and exactly the same his soph year, 17.4 ppg).  He came to play tonight in a huge game - 28 points on 9-13 FG (4-6 3-pt) and 5 rebounds.

After tonight, Burks is now averaging 15.8 ppg in CCIW play with one big game to play.

He's on a roll, though: 53 points in his last two games.


I would imagine that Cody Hilton will have the dubious duty of guarding him on Saturday night.

Who knows who will guard Burks. A couple of games ago, against NCC, Hilton didn't even start. Steve Ideran made only his 3rd start of the season and his 1st in conference play. When Hilton did come in, he hit two threes, and Bosko promptly took him out, replacing him with someone who would pass the ball to his son.   

Hilton is a 5'11" shooter. Ever since high school at Glenbard East in Lombard, IL thats what he has been known for.  I'd be surprised to see this 5'11" slower than average player defending the much quicker, taller, Burks.

If it helps you to believe, AndOne, then I'll mention that Cody Hilton started last night with the assignment of guarding Kent Raymond.  He was fast enough that Raymond really didn't have his typical influence on the game.  Fifteen points, many of which were from the free throw line resulting from fouls that were not Hilton's, is a sub-par game for Raymond.  What I heard was that Raymond was Hilton's assignment for the night.  Apparently, the Carthage staff felt Hilton was quick enough and athletic enough to guard the 6'3" All-American.  It appeared that the plan was to let Panner have his shots and try to take Raymond out of the flow of the game as much as possible.  I'd say Carthage succeeded at that.  Carthage led for much of this game and I don't think anyone would have bet on a 4 point game up in Kenosha last night.  "Slower than average"?  You might need a larger body of work on which to evaluate him.  Hilton is one of the better athletes on the Red Men.  Last night, it looked like Bosko recognized that with his defensive assignments.   

Pete, Hilton used 3 of his 5 fouls to send Raymond to the line which resulted in 6 free throws means he was responsible for half the freethrow attempts.  I believe he got away with more because at one time Hilton grabbed Ray's jersey to slow him down at mid court.   They really tried everything from the blatant hand checking to even uniform rearrangement to guard him.   Like USEE said Panner hit the shots because he was open.  Jahns also canned 2 3's as well for the same reason.  They wanted to shut down Wiele and Raymond.  And like GS said Wheaton was able to get to the boards effectively which was critical near the end of the game.

Ok. the gloves are off and the game is on.

Let me first say that I expect a great game vs NCC on Saturday night from a well coached, disciplined team that has played well together this year. I think it will be close and NCC has had Wheaton's number the last few years so I don't expect anything other than a great performance from the Cardinals.

That said, I have to say I am really tired of the abused stepchild drum that AndOne is beating repeatedly. The ONES WHO VOTED are the coaches and personally they weren't that far off. They voted the Cardinal 6th and it looks like they are on their way to 3rd or 4th. WHO CARES? you keep touting your win against Wheaton when EVERYONE knows they weren't close to full strength. NCC played great and was definitely the better team that night but don't use that game as a measuring stick of you season because no one else does. Use THIS game!! Wheaton is at full strength. Run your mouth if you win Saturday (an NCC win is a distinct possibility--AO running his mouth is a given) but please stop insulting everyones intelligence with your "win against #7".

I pause here to say this is not a post against NCC because I see a win saturday as a distinct possibility. I am just tired of AndOne's Lou Holtz style posts. NCC is currently 2-3 against the other likely teams in the conference tournament  and 0-2 in THEIR gyms. This Saturday would be a signature win and if you do it the "old fashioned way" you will get all the kudos you deserve. Up to now NCC has been a good team and has won some games no one thought they would. They have also lost some games they absolutely should not have lost if they want to be a top team (home against IWU, @millikin).

Good luck to the Cardinals Saturday. Bring your A game, leave it all on the floor. You are playing a great team with all their guns in top form. No excuses, leave it all on the floor and may the best team win!

I feel better now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.........

Geez Usee - get a life - this is a basketball game, not rampant unemployment, disintegrating trust in public officials, or runaway deflation and recession.

Get a grip.

dgp

Atta boy USEE my thoughts exactly on AO.
dgp AO treats NCC basketball exactly like rampant unemployment with his overly dramatic accounts so Usee has been patient and held his fire for the appropriate time. +K to him

[petemcb]

Ryan Burks' scoring had been down a bit heading into tonight - 14.8 ppg in CCIW play (17.4 ppg last year and exactly the same his soph year, 17.4 ppg).  He came to play tonight in a huge game - 28 points on 9-13 FG (4-6 3-pt) and 5 rebounds.

After tonight, Burks is now averaging 15.8 ppg in CCIW play with one big game to play.

He's on a roll, though: 53 points in his last two games.

I would imagine that Cody Hilton will have the dubious duty of guarding him on Saturday night.

Who knows who will guard Burks. A couple of games ago, against NCC, Hilton didn't even start. Steve Ideran made only his 3rd start of the season and his 1st in conference play. When Hilton did come in, he hit two threes, and Bosko promptly took him out, replacing him with someone who would pass the ball to his son.   

Hilton is a 5'11" shooter. Ever since high school at Glenbard East in Lombard, IL thats what he has been known for.  I'd be surprised to see this 5'11" slower than average player defending the much quicker, taller, Burks.

If it helps you to believe, AndOne, then I'll mention that Cody Hilton started last night with the assignment of guarding Kent Raymond.  He was fast enough that Raymond really didn't have his typical influence on the game.  Fifteen points, many of which were from the free throw line resulting from fouls that were not Hilton's, is a sub-par game for Raymond.  What I heard was that Raymond was Hilton's assignment for the night.  Apparently, the Carthage staff felt Hilton was quick enough and athletic enough to guard the 6'3" All-American.  It appeared that the plan was to let Panner have his shots and try to take Raymond out of the flow of the game as much as possible.  I'd say Carthage succeeded at that.  Carthage led for much of this game and I don't think anyone would have bet on a 4 point game up in Kenosha last night.  "Slower than average"?  You might need a larger body of work on which to evaluate him.  Hilton is one of the better athletes on the Red Men.  Last night, it looked like Bosko recognized that with his defensive assignments.   

Cody Hilton did not guard Raymond 1 on 1 last night. If he had Raymond would have had double the points he did have. They doubled Raymond off every screen and generally tried to keep it out of his and Wiele's hands with a matchup zone. Do you really think Ben Panner tried 18 3 pointers because he was "feeling hot"?? No, it's because he was left wide open all night and Bosko decided Raymond and Wiele were not going to beat him. Raymond took far fewer shots than usual (2-8) but got to the line 12 times. Wiele also only took 5 shots so the Thunder simply showed everybody they can beat you in another way. This is the first game they gave up over 50% shooting and won. They won, as Greg said, because they dominated the boards. Kenosha is a tough place to get a win and Carthage had everything to lose but Wheaton still found a way. That's a great win.

I must have a wilder imagination than I get credit for if you're telling me that Hilton didn't spend stretches of the game 1 on 1 with Raymond.  I didn't say he totally shut him down.  Just that he is athletic enough (and not too slow, as had been mentioned) to do a creditable job on Raymond, of whom I have been a fan for all four of his seasons.  If you look up from your post, you'll see that I mentioned that it appeared that Carthage's plan was to leave Panner open for his shots.  That left Carthage free to scramble on the rest of their defense.  No doubt Hilton and Higgins got some help.  Who doesn't help on Raymond at various points of a game?  I just felt Hilton deserved some credit for doing a decent job on one of the best players in all of D3 basketball.  If he got some help at times, that doesn't lessen his effort or accomplishment.  

[petemcb]

Ryan Burks' scoring had been down a bit heading into tonight - 14.8 ppg in CCIW play (17.4 ppg last year and exactly the same his soph year, 17.4 ppg).  He came to play tonight in a huge game - 28 points on 9-13 FG (4-6 3-pt) and 5 rebounds.

After tonight, Burks is now averaging 15.8 ppg in CCIW play with one big game to play.

He's on a roll, though: 53 points in his last two games.


I would imagine that Cody Hilton will have the dubious duty of guarding him on Saturday night.

Who knows who will guard Burks. A couple of games ago, against NCC, Hilton didn't even start. Steve Ideran made only his 3rd start of the season and his 1st in conference play. When Hilton did come in, he hit two threes, and Bosko promptly took him out, replacing him with someone who would pass the ball to his son.   

Hilton is a 5'11" shooter. Ever since high school at Glenbard East in Lombard, IL thats what he has been known for.  I'd be surprised to see this 5'11" slower than average player defending the much quicker, taller, Burks.

If it helps you to believe, AndOne, then I'll mention that Cody Hilton started last night with the assignment of guarding Kent Raymond.  He was fast enough that Raymond really didn't have his typical influence on the game.  Fifteen points, many of which were from the free throw line resulting from fouls that were not Hilton's, is a sub-par game for Raymond.  What I heard was that Raymond was Hilton's assignment for the night.  Apparently, the Carthage staff felt Hilton was quick enough and athletic enough to guard the 6'3" All-American.  It appeared that the plan was to let Panner have his shots and try to take Raymond out of the flow of the game as much as possible.  I'd say Carthage succeeded at that.  Carthage led for much of this game and I don't think anyone would have bet on a 4 point game up in Kenosha last night.  "Slower than average"?  You might need a larger body of work on which to evaluate him.  Hilton is one of the better athletes on the Red Men.  Last night, it looked like Bosko recognized that with his defensive assignments.   

Pete, Hilton used 3 of his 5 fouls to send Raymond to the line which resulted in 6 free throws means he was responsible for half the freethrow attempts.  I believe he got away with more because at one time Hilton grabbed Ray's jersey to slow him down at mid court.   They really tried everything from the blatant hand checking to even uniform rearrangement to guard him.   Like USEE said Panner hit the shots because he was open.  Jahns also canned 2 3's as well for the same reason.  They wanted to shut down Wiele and Raymond.  And like GS said Wheaton was able to get to the boards effectively which was critical near the end of the game.

My experience of watching Raymond over the years (and I have probably seen at least half a dozen Wheaton games each year for the last eight years or so) is that every team employs similar tactics.  The fact that Hilton was called for three fouls guarding Raymond is not headline news, nor does it imply that he didn't play legit defense.  If you want to keep track of jersey-grabbing and re-arrangement, watch Wiele closely.  He's a great kid, but jersey-grabbing is not the exclusive domain of a 5'11" player trying to slow down a D3 All-American.  Wiele was clutching and grabbing at the 6'2" or so Sean Fendley who was assigned to make life more difficult for him last night.........and not much of that was called either.  That stuff tends to go both ways. 

This has gotten kinda weird here.  I am a fan of Raymond, and I admire Wheaton's program and have supported it with my attendance for years now.  I'm not a Wheaton-hater.  I just thought an unsung hero did a creditable job on a great player last night.  That didn't seem to go over to well here.  Oh well.  I've got enough karma in the bank. 

[usee]

Ok. the gloves are off and the game is on.

Let me first say that I expect a great game vs NCC on Saturday night from a well coached, disciplined team that has played well together this year. I think it will be close and NCC has had Wheaton's number the last few years so I don't expect anything other than a great performance from the Cardinals.

That said, I have to say I am really tired of the abused stepchild drum that AndOne is beating repeatedly. The ONES WHO VOTED are the coaches and personally they weren't that far off. They voted the Cardinal 6th and it looks like they are on their way to 3rd or 4th. WHO CARES? you keep touting your win against Wheaton when EVERYONE knows they weren't close to full strength. NCC played great and was definitely the better team that night but don't use that game as a measuring stick of you season because no one else does. Use THIS game!! Wheaton is at full strength. Run your mouth if you win Saturday (an NCC win is a distinct possibility--AO running his mouth is a given) but please stop insulting everyones intelligence with your "win against #7".

I pause here to say this is not a post against NCC because I see a win saturday as a distinct possibility. I am just tired of AndOne's Lou Holtz style posts. NCC is currently 2-3 against the other likely teams in the conference tournament  and 0-2 in THEIR gyms. This Saturday would be a signature win and if you do it the "old fashioned way" you will get all the kudos you deserve. Up to now NCC has been a good team and has won some games no one thought they would. They have also lost some games they absolutely should not have lost if they want to be a top team (home against IWU, @millikin).

Good luck to the Cardinals Saturday. Bring your A game, leave it all on the floor. You are playing a great team with all their guns in top form. No excuses, leave it all on the floor and may the best team win!

I feel better now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming.........

Geez Usee - get a life - this is a basketball game, not rampant unemployment, disintegrating trust in public officials, or runaway deflation and recession.

Get a grip.

dgp

Sorry Dennis but I have this passive-aggressive thing going. That's how I roll. 

I'd give you +K but it hasn't been 24 hrs yet.

[CCIWchamps]

Cody Hilton did not guard Raymond 1 on 1 last night. If he had Raymond would have had double the points he did have. They doubled Raymond off every screen and generally tried to keep it out of his and Wiele's hands with a matchup zone. Do you really think Ben Panner tried 18 3 pointers because he was "feeling hot"?? No, it's because he was left wide open all night and Bosko decided Raymond and Wiele were not going to beat him. Raymond took far fewer shots than usual (2-8) but got to the line 12 times. Wiele also only took 5 shots so the Thunder simply showed everybody they can beat you in another way. This is the first game they gave up over 50% shooting and won. They won, as Greg said, because they dominated the boards. Kenosha is a tough place to get a win and Carthage had everything to lose but Wheaton still found a way. That's a great win.

I must have a wilder imagination than I get credit for if you're telling me that Hilton didn't spend stretches of the game 1 on 1 with Raymond.  I didn't say he totally shut him down.  Just that he is athletic enough (and not too slow, as had been mentioned) to do a creditable job on Raymond, of whom I have been a fan for all four of his seasons.  If you look up from your post, you'll see that I mentioned that it appeared that Carthage's plan was to leave Panner open for his shots.  That left Carthage free to scramble on the rest of their defense.  No doubt Hilton and Higgins got some help.  Who doesn't help on Raymond at various points of a game?  I just felt Hilton deserved some credit for doing a decent job on one of the best players in all of D3 basketball.  If he got some help at times, that doesn't lessen his effort or accomplishment.  

You are both sort of right according to the linked story above in the Kenosha paper:
" 'That was our choice,' Djurickovic said. 'He's [Panner] a good player, but we thought our best chance to win was to control Raymond and Wiele. We certainly did that. Panner made his shots. Give him credit for that.'"

"Employing gimmick defenses and playing straight man-to-man, Carthage's Cody Hilton and Joe Higgins helped hold Raymond to only two field goals — one with two seconds left that iced the victory. The senior guard did finish with 15 points thanks to an 11-of-12 effort from the free-throw line. Double teamed throughout the night, Wiele got off only five shots and finished with five points."

Actually, it sounds like the Carthage coach feels like he let one get away, having developed a plan to make someone else beat them, and then nearly accomplishing it.  The article ends with " 'Our team played very well,' Bosko Djurickovic said. 'We competed until the very end. They made two or three more plays than we did at the end of the game.' "  Technically, that's correct, but at least he should be/can be happy he made a game out of this contest.  He said Wheaton is beatable if you contain Raymond and Wiele, and this win shows the balance Wheaton has across the line.

I think another stat line to notice is Carwell's quiet night.  He's usually a catalyst with some more blocks and steals.  Anyone know how he played?

[74impala]

I think another stat line to notice is Carwell's quiet night.  He's usually a catalyst with some more blocks and steals.  Anyone know how he played?

Carwell was stuck on the bench most of the game in foul trouble.

[usee]

I must have a wilder imagination than I get credit for if you're telling me that Hilton didn't spend stretches of the game 1 on 1 with Raymond.  I didn't say he totally shut him down.  Just that he is athletic enough (and not too slow, as had been mentioned) to do a creditable job on Raymond, of whom I have been a fan for all four of his seasons.  If you look up from your post, you'll see that I mentioned that it appeared that Carthage's plan was to leave Panner open for his shots.  That left Carthage free to scramble on the rest of their defense.  No doubt Hilton and Higgins got some help.  Who doesn't help on Raymond at various points of a game?  I just felt Hilton deserved some credit for doing a decent job on one of the best players in all of D3 basketball.  If he got some help at times, that doesn't lessen his effort or accomplishment.  

Petemcb,

I agree with your assessment I was merely trying to point out the balance of the Carthage defensive plan that CCIWchamps laid out in a better way. My intention was not to knock Hilton's efforts, he is to be commended for limiting Raymond to 2-8 from the field. I was actually only trying to supplement that by pointing out what appeared to be Carthage's overall strategy.

I would also argue, that Hilton didn't just have help "sometimes". When is the last time you saw a Raymond defender go under a pick vs Kent or the pick-man's defender not pop out to give help? I don't remember seeing it since KR's freshman year.  

[petemcb]

If I'm understanding the question correctly (cuz I'm not a great X's and O's kinda guy), I think I would answer Sean Dwyer and IWU.  Did I get the question?

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Ryan Burks' scoring had been down a bit heading into tonight - 14.8 ppg in CCIW play (17.4 ppg last year and exactly the same his soph year, 17.4 ppg).  He came to play tonight in a huge game - 28 points on 9-13 FG (4-6 3-pt) and 5 rebounds.

After tonight, Burks is now averaging 15.8 ppg in CCIW play with one big game to play.

He's on a roll, though: 53 points in his last two games.


I would imagine that Cody Hilton will have the dubious duty of guarding him on Saturday night.

Who knows who will guard Burks. A couple of games ago, against NCC, Hilton didn't even start. Steve Ideran made only his 3rd start of the season and his 1st in conference play. When Hilton did come in, he hit two threes, and Bosko promptly took him out, replacing him with someone who would pass the ball to his son.   

Hilton is a 5'11" shooter. Ever since high school at Glenbard East in Lombard, IL thats what he has been known for.  I'd be surprised to see this 5'11" slower than average player defending the much quicker, taller, Burks.

If it helps you to believe, AndOne, then I'll mention that Cody Hilton started last night with the assignment of guarding Kent Raymond.  He was fast enough that Raymond really didn't have his typical influence on the game.  Fifteen points, many of which were from the free throw line resulting from fouls that were not Hilton's, is a sub-par game for Raymond.  What I heard was that Raymond was Hilton's assignment for the night.  Apparently, the Carthage staff felt Hilton was quick enough and athletic enough to guard the 6'3" All-American.  It appeared that the plan was to let Panner have his shots and try to take Raymond out of the flow of the game as much as possible.  I'd say Carthage succeeded at that.  Carthage led for much of this game and I don't think anyone would have bet on a 4 point game up in Kenosha last night.  "Slower than average"?  You might need a larger body of work on which to evaluate him.  Hilton is one of the better athletes on the Red Men.  Last night, it looked like Bosko recognized that with his defensive assignments.   

Pete, Hilton used 3 of his 5 fouls to send Raymond to the line which resulted in 6 free throws means he was responsible for half the freethrow attempts.  I believe he got away with more because at one time Hilton grabbed Ray's jersey to slow him down at mid court.   They really tried everything from the blatant hand checking to even uniform rearrangement to guard him.   Like USEE said Panner hit the shots because he was open.  Jahns also canned 2 3's as well for the same reason.  They wanted to shut down Wiele and Raymond.  And like GS said Wheaton was able to get to the boards effectively which was critical near the end of the game.

My experience of watching Raymond over the years (and I have probably seen at least half a dozen Wheaton games each year for the last eight years or so) is that every team employs similar tactics.  The fact that Hilton was called for three fouls guarding Raymond is not headline news, nor does it imply that he didn't play legit defense.  If you want to keep track of jersey-grabbing and re-arrangement, watch Wiele closely.  He's a great kid, but jersey-grabbing is not the exclusive domain of a 5'11" player trying to slow down a D3 All-American.  Wiele was clutching and grabbing at the 6'2" or so Sean Fendley who was assigned to make life more difficult for him last night.........and not much of that was called either.  That stuff tends to go both ways. 

This has gotten kinda weird here.  I am a fan of Raymond, and I admire Wheaton's program and have supported it with my attendance for years now.  I'm not a Wheaton-hater.  I just thought an unsung hero did a creditable job on a great player last night.  That didn't seem to go over to well here.  Oh well.  I've got enough karma in the bank. 

Well you gotta +K from me Pete.  Even good coaches try gimmick defenses once in a while - and the sign of a good (great) team is that they have the talent when their best players are being double-teamed to find their points elsewhere.

I saw Dennie Bridges play a triangle and 2 against North Park in 1980, guarding THomas and Greer man for man and double teaming Harper down low.  Grastorf and Clausen lit the Titans up in a big home win.  I think Grastorf had a career high 26 points.

That Carthage went to the final seconds last night with a chance to beat one of the best teams in the country is everything a coach could hope for - Bosko and his players did a good job doing the defensive job they thought would win the game - Wheaton's overall talent got the job done and players other than the stars had big nights.  Sounds like it was a great game in Kenosha - sorry I missed it.

Dennis