MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[voxelmhurst]

I expected Ruch and Burks to be where they ended up but did not expect Strzemp to get on the third team.  Nice! 

[Gregory Sager]

I expected Ruch and Burks to be where they ended up but did not expect Strzemp to get on the third team.  Nice! 

The voting for the All-CCIW team has always roughly paralleled the final standings, with occasional exceptions. AndOne brought up the fact that last season Sean Johnson of Illinois Wesleyan made the third team despite the fact that he (and others who follow the league closely, me included) thought that Johnson was a somewhat suspect choice. But, as Bob pointed out, Illinois Wesleyan finished second; thus, two selections from the Titans were merited. Also, as I pointed out today, Roshawn Russell has just finished the sort of season that warranted selection. He finished seventh in scoring with 14.4 ppg (the next-highest scorer who did not make the All-CCIW team, Travis Rosenkrantz, finished all the way down in 14th place with 11.1 ppg), fifth in both assists and A/TO, and he led the league in FT shooting by a wide margin (.905, while second-best FT shooter Brett Wessels shot .891). But Russell did not make the team, and Nick Williams was demoted from last season's second-team status to third team this season, because (I very strongly suspect) NPU went 0-14 in league play.

As I said, I don't have a problem with Russell's omission, just as I didn't have a problem with Wesleyan getting a second player on the All-CCIW team last season even though that second player's credentials didn't seem as strong as those of other players who didn't make the cut. The All-CCIW team has traditionally followed this pattern of roughly (not exactly, roughly) paralleling the final standings, and it's a tradition that's widely understood and accepted around the league. Given that tradition and the fact that it's more or less an unspoken rule, it seems self-serving for me or for anyone else to object to it in any one instance for partisan reasons.

I strongly suspect that Rob Strzemp was the beneficiary of this tradition, as was Johnson last year, just as Russell was its victim (and Matt Rogers and/or Jason Gordon may have been its victim last season). The selection of Strzemp as the third player from the second-place team -- a second-place team that finished only a game out of first and which split with the league champs -- means that the All-CCIW team fits a tidy 3-3-3-2-2-1-1-1 pattern, with the top three teams (Wheaton, Elmhurst, and Augie) getting three selections apiece, the two middle teams (NCC and Carthage) getting two apiece, and the bottom three teams (Millikin, IWU, and NPU) each getting one. Furthermore, an internal hierarchy is maintained: Among the top three teams, #1 Wheaton gets a first-teamer and two second-teamers, while #2 Elmhurst and #3 Augie each get a first-teamer, a second-teamer, and a third-teamer. Among the middle two, #4 NCC gets a first-teamer and a second-teamer, while #5 Carthage gets a first-teamer and a third-teamer. Finally, among the bottom three, #6 Millikin gets a second-teamer while #7 IWU and #8 NPU are each relegated to a third-teamer.

The real question is: If the coaches had to take a third Bluejay, why Strzemp instead of Chris Childs? Childs had a much better year statistically; he appears in numerous statistical categories, while Strzemp's contributions (18th in rebounding, 15th in assists, 15th in defensive rebounds) are far more humble. My guess is that Strzemp got the "intangibles" nod from the coaches, especially since he's a well-respected senior leader and is not as inconsistent a contributor as Childs has been.

* Why wasn't Chris Drennan a unanimous first-team selection? Which coach could've possibly voted otherwise?

Probably the same coach who did not vote for 1st Team All-Americans Adam Dauksas and Keelan Amelianovich.

http://www.cciw.org/winter_bball_m/05_06_MBBallconf.htm

Those slights bothered me just as much as did the slight to Drennan. It's the baseball Hall of Fame voting controversy done in miniature: Aside from the question of who deserves to get in and who doesn't, who deserves unanimous selection? Dauksas and Amelianovich deserved it, and I'm firmly convinced that Drennan does as well. There were only two CCIW players who finished in the top five in both scoring and rebounding this season: Brent Ruch and Chris Drennan. And, like Ruch, Drennan was also in the top ten in both FG percentage and FT percentage. But Drennan was also among the league's top ten in assists, a claim that Ruch can't match. It can be argued that, aside from Kent Raymond and Steve Djurickovic, nobody in the CCIW was as versatile in terms of being a standout in numerous phases of the game as was Chris Drennan. With him, North Central made the first division and the league tournament; without him, the Cardinals are likely the eighth-place team. And he did it while playing out of position at center, where he was the smallest player in the league by a significant margin.

But when you say "probably the same coach who didn't vote for Dauksas and Amelianovich" you make me suspect that you might know who it is. Care to share some dirt, Bob?

[AndOne]

I wonder why there are 16 all-conference players this year (6 on the 2nd team)?

2008-09 CCIW ALL CONFERENCE TEAM

http://www.cciw.org/winter_bball_m/08_09_MBBallconf.htm

Congrats to all the players who made the team!

* I'm surprised that Chandlor Collins beat out Ryan Burks for first team, but it's hard to discount the fact that Collins led the league in rebounding by a whopping 1.2 rpg.

* Why wasn't Chris Drennan a unanimous first-team selection? Which coach could've possibly voted otherwise?

My guess is that between the three players you  mentioned above there were some votes split for that first team spot.  I think you might have answered your question in your previus statement.  Or, maybe a coach tried to fill in the spots more by position, and with Collins and Ruch already there with the two guards, a coach thought that maybe a wing player like Burks should be first team.

While we'll probably never know for sure, your speculation of a Burks-over-Drennan vote for the final spot sounds plausible to me.[/b]

I happen to have that information---

In the first round of balloting Pelton, and Ogunleye tied for 10th place. The coaches naturally voted again, but nobody was willing to change their vote to break the tie so it was decided to put 6 players on the team and then have the 3rd team comprised of the players who received the 11th through 16th most votes.

Drennan received more votes than did Burks. 

Obviously - that's why one is first team, the other second!

We were speculating about Greg's 'disbelief' that Drennan wasn't unanimously first team.

Mr----

Please excuse me. My comment was due to my evidently incorrect interpretation of the above highlighted information.

[andrewmp]

I wonder why there are 16 all-conference players this year (6 on the 2nd team)?

2008-09 CCIW ALL CONFERENCE TEAM

http://www.cciw.org/winter_bball_m/08_09_MBBallconf.htm

Congrats to all the players who made the team!

* I'm surprised that Chandlor Collins beat out Ryan Burks for first team, but it's hard to discount the fact that Collins led the league in rebounding by a whopping 1.2 rpg.

* Why wasn't Chris Drennan a unanimous first-team selection? Which coach could've possibly voted otherwise?

My guess is that between the three players you  mentioned above there were some votes split for that first team spot.  I think you might have answered your question in your previus statement.  Or, maybe a coach tried to fill in the spots more by position, and with Collins and Ruch already there with the two guards, a coach thought that maybe a wing player like Burks should be first team.

While we'll probably never know for sure, your speculation of a Burks-over-Drennan vote for the final spot sounds plausible to me.[/b]

I happen to have that information---

In the first round of balloting Pelton, and Ogunleye tied for 10th place. The coaches naturally voted again, but nobody was willing to change their vote to break the tie so it was decided to put 6 players on the team and then have the 3rd team comprised of the players who received the 11th through 16th most votes.

Drennan received more votes than did Burks. 

Obviously - that's why one is first team, the other second!

We were speculating about Greg's 'disbelief' that Drennan wasn't unanimously first team.

Mr----

Please excuse me. My comment was due to my evidently incorrect interpretation of the above highlighted information.

Yes, my intention was to say a coach or two voted for both Burks and Collins, meaning I thought Drennan fell short by a vote or two for unaminous selection.  The split I was refering to was not a down the middle between all coaches.
I am in agreement that Drennan probably did deserve a unaminous selection, and if voting I would have had no second thoughts about putting him on the first team.

[REDMENFAN]

Congrats to all the All-CCIW performers.  Here's the article from the kenosha paper today about Steve and Fendley making the 1st and 3rd teams respectively.

http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/its_unanimous_djurickovic_named_allcciw_first_team_4441313.html

[markerickson]

Nick Williams finished third in rebounding and sixth in scoring yet "earned" third team status?  BS.

Why are there six players on the second team?  That adds to the insult of leaving Williams off the second team, in my opinion.

Lots of seniors on those three teams.  Who does NCC have to replace Drennan and Rogers?

[OurHouse]

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2009/02/24/usports/doc49a3608a83c06956265874.txt

Notice the comment from "Big Deal" at the end.  Is Q's favorite Titan fan posting on the Pantagraph as well?

Twas not me - the Pantagraph article is spot on and tells the truth from an outsider looking in - I also noticed the famous IWU fan did not post this link because it is nothing but the truth and is contrary to what he sees.

He always posts Pantagraph links and for some reason, he did not post this one - hmmmmmm, imagine that   

[cardinalfanrochelle]

AndOne,
I posted about tickets on the pick 'em sight by mistake ,the question was does NCC get a block of tickets to sell to parents and students?. I heard it will be hard to get in Friday night.

[AndOne]

With regard to deserving players being left off the CCIW all-conference team, my humble opinion is that North Central's Mitch Raridon deserved strong consideration.
In fact, I compared his (conference only) stats to a couple of very good players from Augie, Wessels and Pelton, who did make the team.

Scoring---Raridon 15th, Wessels 18th, Pelton not in the top 30
Rebounding--Raridon tied for 20th, neither Wessels nor Pelton in the top 20
Assists----Raridon tied for 7th, Wessels 13th, Pelton not in the top 15
FG percentage--Raridon 12th, neither Wessels nor Pelton in the top 15
FT percentage---Wessels 2nd, Raridon 4th, Pelton not in the top 15
Steals---Raridon tied for 4th, Pelton tied for 4th, Wessels 6th 
3 point percentage--Pelton 3rd, Raridon tied for 5th, Wessels not in the top 15
3 point shots made--Raridon tied for 7th, Pelton tird for 12th, Wessels not in top 15
Off rebounds---Wessels tied for 15th, Raridon and Pelton not in the top 15
Minutes played--Raridon 3rd, neither Wessels not Pelton in the top 15

In the above 10 statistical areas, Mitch Raridon ranked highest in 7 of the 10, Wessels in 2, and Pelton in 1.

Both Brett Wessels and Matt Pelton may have well deserved all-conference recognition. However, if they did, so too did Mitch Raridon.

I believe Strzemp and Sexauer are the most questionable selections. Again this is not to say they weren't deserving, but I would suggest Raridon was at least, if not more deserving than the other 4 players mentioned above.

As Greg Sager has discussed this reinforces the fact that to the victors go the spoils. However, I think this is an instance in which statistics, and not just speculation, point to the fact that the voting was a bit misguided. Call me crazy. 

[dansand]

Latest (and final public) Regional rankings:

Midwest Region             Overall Record     In-Region Record
1. Wheaton (Illinois)            22-3                        18-3
2. Washington-St. Louis      22-2                        21-2
3. Elmhurst                          19-6                        19-6
4. Transylvania                    19-5                        16-3
5. Lawrence                         17-6                        17-6
6. Augustana (Illinois)          18-7                        17-7
7. Carroll (Wisconsin)           16-7                        16-7
8. North Central (Illinois)      16-9                        14-7

[Ralph Turner]

Latest (and final public) Regional rankings:

Midwest Region             Overall Record     In-Region Record
1. Wheaton (Illinois)            22-3                        18-3
2. Washington-St. Louis      22-2                        21-2
3. Elmhurst                          19-6                        19-6
4. Transylvania                    19-5                        16-3
5. Lawrence                         17-6                        17-6
6. Augustana (Illinois)          18-7                        17-7
7. Carroll (Wisconsin)           16-7                        16-7
8. North Central (Illinois)      16-9                        14-7

Do you have the link to the rest of it?

[dansand]

Latest (and final public) Regional rankings:

Midwest Region             Overall Record     In-Region Record
1. Wheaton (Illinois)            22-3                        18-3
2. Washington-St. Louis      22-2                        21-2
3. Elmhurst                          19-6                        19-6
4. Transylvania                    19-5                        16-3
5. Lawrence                         17-6                        17-6
6. Augustana (Illinois)          18-7                        17-7
7. Carroll (Wisconsin)           16-7                        16-7
8. North Central (Illinois)      16-9                        14-7

Do you have the link to the rest of it?

Here it is:

http://www.ncaa.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/ncaa/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/DIIIMBK22509Regional

[petemcb]

With regard to deserving players being left off the CCIW all-conference team, my humble opinion is that North Central's Mitch Raridon deserved strong consideration.
In fact, I compared his (conference only) stats to a couple of very good players from Augie, Wessels and Pelton, who did make the team.

Scoring---Raridon 15th, Wessels 18th, Pelton not in the top 30
Rebounding--Raridon tied for 20th, neither Wessels nor Pelton in the top 20
Assists----Raridon tied for 7th, Wessels 13th, Pelton not in the top 15
FG percentage--Raridon 12th, neither Wessels nor Pelton in the top 15
FT percentage---Wessels 2nd, Raridon 4th, Pelton not in the top 15
Steals---Raridon tied for 4th, Pelton tied for 4th, Wessels 6th 
3 point percentage--Pelton 3rd, Raridon tied for 5th, Wessels not in the top 15
3 point shots made--Raridon tied for 7th, Pelton tird for 12th, Wessels not in top 15
Off rebounds---Wessels tied for 15th, Raridon and Pelton not in the top 15
Minutes played--Raridon 3rd, neither Wessels not Pelton in the top 15

In the above 10 statistical areas, Mitch Raridon ranked highest in 7 of the 10, Wessels in 2, and Pelton in 1.

Both Brett Wessels and Matt Pelton may have well deserved all-conference recognition. However, if they did, so too did Mitch Raridon.

I believe Strzemp and Sexauer are the most questionable selections. Again this is not to say they weren't deserving, but I would suggest Raridon was at least, if not more deserving than the other 4 players mentioned above.

As Greg Sager has discussed this reinforces the fact that to the victors go the spoils. However, I think this is an instance in which statistics, and not just speculation, point to the fact that the voting was a bit misguided. Call me crazy. 

You make a strong case, AndOne, and I'm buying it.  Course, I don't get a vote......but I'm buying it.

[Naperick]

Latest (and final public) Regional rankings:

Midwest Region             Overall Record     In-Region Record
1. Wheaton (Illinois)            22-3                        18-3
2. Washington-St. Louis      22-2                        21-2
3. Elmhurst                          19-6                        19-6
4. Transylvania                    19-5                        16-3
5. Lawrence                         17-6                        17-6
6. Augustana (Illinois)          18-7                        17-7
7. Carroll (Wisconsin)           16-7                        16-7
8. North Central (Illinois)      16-9                        14-7

Could this mean Augustana has a chance to make the D3 tourney if they lose a game this weekend?

[Naperick]

Congrats to Wheaton on moving into the top spot for the Midwest Region!  Elmhurst stayed at 3rd, Augustana moved up a spot to 6th, and North Central dropped 3 spots to 8th.