MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[titanhammer]

I should also add that I enjoyed Pat's rendition of the National Anthem last night, and I'm looking forward to Bob taking his turn before tonight's game.

God help us all.

I have been watching a lot of American Idol lately and I feel like I'm ready.

"And now, to sing the National Anthem:  Titan Sanjaya!"

[izzy stradlin]

* Wash U did play good defense throughout the game, which certainly held down Wheaton's scoring, but a lot of Wheaton's offensive woes appeared to be just plain ol' tightness. The Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance played like a team that was afraid to lose; the Bears played like a team that expected to win. As I said to Pat last night, there's a "been there, done that" attitude that national champions carry with them in tough games, and that attitude was on display last night.

I agree about Wheaton's tightness.  I think you could see it at the end of the UWP game too.  It is something we really didn't see  last year in the tourney when Wheaton had nothing to lose.  I think the Wheaton players were feeling a different kind of pressure this year with their D3hoops rankings, hosting a sectional, fans lined up for tickets while they were praticing this week etc.. 

On a different note, I think people overanalyze basketball and try to make it into a science too often-- trying to decide which is the "better/best team."  When fairly evenly matched teams play in a one game setting, it simply comes down to who makes more shots.  Last night, both teams rebounded and played great defense, but Wash U made more shots and were the better team... last night.   I don't think you can say anything else with any degree of certainty. 

Wheaton hits a couple of their big shots down the stretch and everyone would be talking about Wash U's dropped passes or Panner's second half D on Thompson.   While some of Wheaton's shooting was tightness or Wash U's defense, a larger portion of shooting is just randomness.

In the NBA playoffs, the best team usually wins it all. In NCAA tournaments, it's one of the best teams.   In Salem, a team that is realistically the 12th "best" team in the country might get hot and beat Wash U or St. Thomas.  That's what makes it fun.

[pistol]

Unfortunately, sometimes a great player goes bust at the very end of his career.



Wiele a great player... Anyone who thinks he is a great player should take to commenting on something they KNOW about.

Why would a great player ever go "bust" at the end of his career.

[scottiedawg]

Some random thoughts from the game:

I have never seen so many airballs.  Nading had two early, Raymond had a couple, and Panner had at least one.  Wheaton suffered from some suspect shot selection.

Raymond initiates a lot of contact, which makes it hard for the officials not to call something.  Maybe he just more adept than other players in the country, maybe he gets some questionable calls, I don't know.

Wiele was not going to score much last night with the constant double teams being thrown at him. However, he was unable to find either open shooters or open slashers. 

Wallis was brilliant.  Two years ago he stepped up big to defeat my Dutchmen in the Elite Eight in Stevens Point.  True point guards that dominate the floor and make you gasp at passes are a delight to watch. 

I thought Wheaton has more talent, but just did not play up to it.  Although, with two teams on the floor, it's hard to differentiate between how much one team didn't play well versus how much the other team caused that.

Going in to the game I was calling it the National Championship game.  After watching St. Thomas and Puget Sound, I stand by that statement.  It was a pleasure to watch those four teams battle it out last night.

[Scrub023]

Unfortunately, sometimes a great player goes bust at the very end of his career.



Wiele a great player... Anyone who thinks he is a great player should take to commenting on something they KNOW about.

Why would a great player ever go "bust" at the end of his career.

Exactly, why would someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, comment on that same topic that they don't know about? Good question. I suggest you stick to just your players and your team rather than busting in on Andy Wiele, taking away all that he has accomplished, when you probably haven't even seen him play even once. I really do hate to assume, but I must, because anyone who DOESN'T think Wiele is a great player should take to commenting on something they KNOW about. Since when is 14 points, and 9 rebs anything but great in DIII? A couple bad games and people jump all over him, that's unfair.

[thundermike]

Unfortunately, sometimes a great player goes bust at the very end of his career.



Wiele a great player... Anyone who thinks he is a great player should take to commenting on something they KNOW about.

Why would a great player ever go "bust" at the end of his career.

I've seen Andy Wiele play about 40 times--and I've seen a lot of other team's centers in the process. Andy Wiele is a great player. Again, just look at the stats and name a team that wouldn't want him--it's that simple.

[augiefan]

For the record Wash U beat the Tommies tonight 79-64. The Bears were actually down 41-33 at the half mainly due to an inability to break the UST press, which resulted in a bunch of Wash U TOs. Even Wallis had big problems. However, Edwards made adjustments at the half and the Tommies couldn't buy a shot in the second half, which made it hard to keep up the back court pressure. Nading had a big night with a bunch oif easy layups to lead the Bears back to the FF.

Titan Q disguised as Pat Coleman sang the National anthem in good form. The turnout for the game was pathetic. The gym was about half full at best.

[Fawkes316]

Wash U had 17 turnovers at halftime, but shot 73% from the floor. I'm not sure I have ever seen a first stat sheet like that before.

[Gregory Sager]

Wheaton took a lot of flak from various people for its performance as the host institution last weekend, so I want to go on record as saying that it did a great job this weekend. I thought that everything was first-rate -- right down to the fact that the P.A. announcer did the courtesy of keeping the Wash U fans updated tonight with the progress of their women's team in its Elite Eight contest with IWU.

[cardinalfanrochelle]

Scrub023,
              Good way to start a response to a post bwahhhh,I have watched him play for 2 years so it's not like I am forming an opinion on 1 game. Good player yes great no , All-American no way. When matched against a physical player close to his size he becomes very average player, really good players step up their game against the best and I didn't see that .Two years on 2nd team CCIW all-conference is an honor I am not ripping on him but don't try to turn him into something he isn't. Brent Ruch great yes, only drawback with him was bad knees so we may have never know how great he could have been.All-American I think so, better than some of the other area big men who went D1 and became practice dummies or limited playing time. all around player.Getting back to Andy, I watched smaller build and shorter #5 players control and out play him.Going bust at the end of his career I don't agree with that but you could tell it was taking a toll on him. I have been watching small college basketball since 70's so I have an idea what I'm talking about. Good thing you didn't assume because you have the first part of it down .

[cardinalfanrochelle]

Scrub023,
               If you are talking about things you know stick to the powerhouse conference MWC that your beloved Lawrence is in. Are you saying if they had Andy they wouldn't have lost to Ripon then? That's giving Andy respect, or maybe Marian from the NAC ? What's up with screen name of scrub ? from the playing days?

[dansand]

Wash U had 17 turnovers at halftime, but shot 73% from the floor. I'm not sure I have ever seen a first stat sheet like that before.

Grinnell's opponents have stat lines like that just about every game. 

[CCIWchamps]

Scrub023,
         Good player yes great no , All-American no way. When matched against a physical player close to his size he becomes very average player, really good players step up their game against the best and I didn't see that .Two years on 2nd team CCIW all-conference is an honor I am not ripping on him but don't try to turn him into something he isn't. Brent Ruch great yes, only drawback with him was bad knees so we may have never know how great he could have been.All-American I think so, better than some of the other area big men who went D1 and became practice dummies or limited playing time. all around player.

Brent Ruch is great?  In the 3 games vs. Wheaton this year, Wiele held pace with him in all of them.  I don't get what all the buzz is about with Ruch.  Or how he's an automatic All-American in your book.  But I guess injury did slow him... much like Andy Wiele's did? 

[thundermike]

Good player yes great no , All-American no way. When matched against a physical player close to his size he becomes very average player, really good players step up their game against the best and I didn't see that.Two years on 2nd team CCIW all-conference is an honor I am not ripping on him but don't try to turn him into something he isn't. Brent Ruch great yes, only drawback with him was bad knees so we may have never know how great he could have been.All-American I think so, better than some of the other area big men who went D1 and became practice dummies or limited playing time. all around player.Getting back to Andy, I watched smaller build and shorter #5 players control and out play him.Going bust at the end of his career I don't agree with that but you could tell it was taking a toll on him. I have been watching small college basketball since 70's so I have an idea what I'm talking about.

The stats don't seem to support your argument cardinalfan. Since you brought up Ruch as being great and said Wiele was average against him let's look at their three head-to-head matchups this season.

1/24:
Ruch: 14 pts, 8 boards, 1 block in 23 minutes
Wiele: 16 pts, 4 boards in 26 minutes

2/11:
Ruch: 6 points, 6 boards, 2 blocks in 31 minutes
Wiele: 13 points, 7 boards in 28 minutes

2/28:
Ruch: 19 points, 10 boards, 1 block in 28 minutes
Wiele: 18 points, 5 boards in 24 minutes

I am not trying to take anything away from Brent Ruch because I've seen him play 6 or 7 times and he's a great player, but if Ruch made Wiele look average head-to-head, then I would say Wiele returned the favor. Did you go to the game @ Elmhurst on 2/11? I'm guessing no, because if you had you would have seen Wiele "step up his game against the best."

[augiefan]

Wiele and Ruch are both "great" DIII studfent athletes, who would be a welcome addition to any DIII program. Now that their careers are over, it seems less than sportsmanlike to engage in a debate that denigrates in any way the considerable achievements of both players and their respective teams.