MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Scrub023]

Scrub023,
               If you are talking about things you know stick to the powerhouse conference MWC that your beloved Lawrence is in. Are you saying if they had Andy they wouldn't have lost to Ripon then? That's giving Andy respect, or maybe Marian from the NAC ? What's up with screen name of scrub ? from the playing days?

   . Yes, I am saying they would have beaten both of those teams with Wiele. Please dont crack jokes about a conference who had teams that knocked off Stevens Point and UW-Platteville by more than plenty. CCIW is a stronger conference than the MWC, and if you add one of their best big men to a team like Lawrence, who's big man depth is limited to NOBODY ever since our beloved recruit Alex Brant left. With Wiele, you've got yourself a fine LU team, or any team for that matter. The Marian loss was embarrassing, lack of coaching and preparation really were the downfall in that game, probably because they thought they were going into an easy win. The Ripon loss was just plain and simple, a loss. We played bad, they played well. Sometimes great teams lose to lesser teams, that's what happens all the time. But since the LU season is done, Im finished talking about them. Speaking of great players gone "bust" though, look at Duke's Greg Paulus. He has over 1000 pts in his Duke career, but man, did he bust in his senior year(or maybe Coach K just didn't like him anymore   ). So if your gonna call Paulus a good, but not great player, I suggest you start watching some other sport that you actually have knowledge of.

[thundermike]

Wiele and Ruch are both "great" DIII studfent athletes, who would be a welcome addition to any DIII program. Now that their careers are over, it seems less than sportsmanlike to engage in a debate that denigrates in any way the considerable achievements of both players and their respective teams.

I agree, which is why I wrote earlier that it's not worth debating. This all started because I said that Andy Wiele was a great player, which I was shocked to find out is not a unanimous opinion. My other posts are not to take anything away from Ruch, because he is one of the top centers in D3. I have tried to use Ruch as a measuring stick for Wiele to show that Andy belongs in that category as well.

[Scrub023]

Thundermike,
                      How can you call Andy Wiele a great player? He was lucky to make 2nd all-conference.

Scrub023,
             
Two years on 2nd team CCIW all-conference is an honor I am not ripping on him but don't try to turn him into something he isn't.

BWAHHHHHH??? These comments are opposites sir. You say he should not be 2nd team, then you say its an honor and that you aren't taking it away from him. Well, from what you said, you are taking it away from him.

[Titan Q]

Here is a list of the Final Four teams from the "Salem Era" (14 seasons from 1995-96 through 2008-09):

Amherst 4 (2004, 2006, 2007, 2008) - NESCAC
Illinois Wesleyan 4 (1996, 1997, 2001, 2006) - CCIW
Williams 4 (1997, 1998, 2003, 2004) - NESCAC
Franklin & Marshall 3 (1996, 2000, 2009) - Centennial
Hope 3 (1996, 1998, 2008) - MIAA
Washington U. 3 (2007, 2008, 2009) - UAA
Calvin 2 (2000, 2005) - MIAA
Hampden-Sydney 2 (1999, 2003) - ODAC
Rochester 2 (2002, 2005) - UAA
UW-Platteville 2 (1998, 1999) - WIAC
UW-Stevens Point 2 (2004, 2005) - WIAC
Virginia Wesleyan 2 (2006, 2006) - ODAC
William Paterson 2 (1999, 2001) - NJAC
Wooster 2 (2003, 2007) - NCAC
Alvernia 1 (1997) - MACF
Carthage 1 (2002) - CCIW
Catholic 1 (2001) - LAND
Connecticut College 1 (1999) - NESCAC
Elizabethtown 1 (2002) - MACC
Guilford 1 (2009) - ODAC
Gustavus Adolphus 1 (2003) - MIAC
John Carroll 1 (2004) - OAC
Nebraska Wesleyan 1 (1997) - ind
Ohio Northern 1 (2001) - OAC
Otterbein 1 (2002) - OAC
Richard Stockton 1 (2009) - NJAC
Rowan 1 (1996) - NJAC
Salem St 1 (2000) - MASCAC
Ursinus 1 (2008) - Centennial
UW-Eau Claire 1 (2000) - WIAC
Wilkes 1 (1997) - MACF
Wittenberg 1 (2006) - NCAC
York (Pa) 1 (2005) – CAC

Total appearances by conference (1995-96 through 2008-09):

NESCAC – 9
CCIW – 5
MIAA – 5
ODAC - 5
UAA - 5
WIAC - 5
Centennial – 4
NJAC – 4
NCAC - 3
OAC - 3
MACF – 2
CAC - 1
LAND – 1
MACC – 1
MASCAC - 1
MIAC – 1
Ind - 1

[thundermike]

Great info, Q. Also, great job with Pat on the Wash U/UST broadcast last night.

[markerickson]

Wash U will win it all this year.  Since I don't track conferences outside the Midwest, I don't know anything about the other final three, except that Pat did not pick those teams to reach the Final Four.

[sac]

I think Pat might have picked  Franklin and Marshall to make it if the Diplomats hadn't finished the regular season so poorly.  F&M came into the tournament losing 3 of their last 4 games.


Franklin & Marshall has a great NCAA tournament history, this is their 5th trip to the Final Four along with numerous trips to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8's.

Final Four's

1979 lost to North Park 83-73 in semi's
         beat Centre 66-65
1991 beat Ramapo 109-56 in semi's
         lost to UW Platteville 81-74
1992 beat Buffalo St. 64-55
         lost to Rochester 77-68
1996 lost to Hope 76-57 in semi's
         lost to IWU in consolation 89-57

So in those four trips, played for the title twice, 3rd place team once.  You might note F&M's 0-4 record vs teams west of the Pennsylvania/Ohio border in the Final Four.  Those are also the only 4 games played in their entire NCAA tournament history vs teams west of Pennsylvania........unless you count Centre, Ky as Midwest.

[Ralph Turner]

Let me add one more trip to the Final Four for F&M.   

2000 Playoffs

Championship
Calvin 79, UW-Eau Claire 74

Third-place game
Salem State 79, Franklin & Marshall 75

Semifinals
UW-Eau Claire 70, Salem State 42
Calvin 79, Franklin & Marshall 77

[larry_u]

Scrub023,
               If you are talking about things you know stick to the powerhouse conference MWC that your beloved Lawrence is in. Are you saying if they had Andy they wouldn't have lost to Ripon then? That's giving Andy respect, or maybe Marian from the NAC ? What's up with screen name of scrub ? from the playing days?

Wash U 67 Lawrence 65 --Neutral court


Wash U 55 @ Wheaton 52


Just saying..... you might not want to pick on the poor weak MWC when they did even better then the MIGHTY TOUGH CCIW against the team that is going through to the final 4 from the bracket of death....

[Greek Tragedy]

The MWC is by no means a powerhouse conference, even Larry U will admit that.  BUT, you can't say the cream of the crop from that conference isn't as good as any (or at least most) in other conferences.  Lawrence and Carroll have shown in recent NCAA history that they belong.  Yeah, the MWC isn't as strong throughout like the CCIW, UAA, WIAC or whatever, but the top two or three reminds me of conferences like NCAC (Witt and Woo), MIAA (Hope and Calvin), IIAC (Wartburg and Buena Vista, the MIAC (St. Thomas and Gustavus Adolphus) etc.  They are top heavy like those conferences, but those top teams are pretty good, as shown when LU nearly beat Wash U.

[sac]

Let me add one more trip to the Final Four for F&M.   

2000 Playoffs

Championship
Calvin 79, UW-Eau Claire 74

Third-place game
Salem State 79, Franklin & Marshall 75

Semifinals
UW-Eau Claire 70, Salem State 42
Calvin 79, Franklin & Marshall 77

Clearly I muffed something up, it still stands that F&M has not beaten a GL/MW/W team at the final four.

[r.w. mcnickels]

I think Pat might have picked  Franklin and Marshall to make it if the Diplomats hadn't finished the regular season so poorly.  F&M came into the tournament losing 3 of their last 4 games.


Franklin & Marshall has a great NCAA tournament history, this is their 5th trip to the Final Four along with numerous trips to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8's.

Final Four's

1979 lost to North Park 83-73 in semi's
         beat Centre 66-65
1991 beat Ramapo 109-56 in semi's
         lost to UW Platteville 81-74
1992 beat Buffalo St. 64-55
         lost to Rochester 77-68
1996 lost to Hope 76-57 in semi's
         lost to IWU in consolation 89-57

So in those four trips, played for the title twice, 3rd place team once.  You might note F&M's 0-4 record vs teams west of the Pennsylvania/Ohio border in the Final Four.  Those are also the only 4 games played in their entire NCAA tournament history vs teams west of Pennsylvania........unless you count Centre, Ky as Midwest.

sac-

I would trade all those trips to the Final Four for one national title.  Too much heartbreak for one lifetime!  But going to the final weekend is an incredible experience, and F&M has been fortunate to do it several times.  Each time, there's been a better team in front of them.  The Dips need to play at another level to buck that trend this weekend.

[titan2000]

I just called the NCAA in Indianapolis and asked a few questions about the D-III National Championships in Salem, VA this weekend.  Once the gentlemen I talked to heard of the insurmountable odds the teams that did not play in the Bracket of Death face, the gentlemen told me they were going to cancel the event to save travel funds and mail the trophy to Wash U.   

Thought you'd like to know. 

[cardinalfanrochelle]

Thundermike,
                     How much did Andy step up his game against NCC? As I wrote Andy had problems with smaller build and shorter players, he was slower,agility wasn't there,and against more physical players he was average. I'm basing that off games in person and DVD's

[CCIWchamps]

Thundermike,
                     How much did Andy step up his game against NCC? As I wrote Andy had problems with smaller build and shorter players, he was slower,agility wasn't there,and against more physical players he was average. I'm basing that off games in person and DVD's

I'm assuming the answer to the question "How much did Andy step up his game against NCC?" is "Well enough," or some other positive answer?

I'm also assuming Thundermike would crunch some stats and say the following-
Looking at total stats in 3 matchups:
Wiele (2nd Team) = 28 points, 25 rebounds, 14 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals and 7 turnovers in 88 minutes played.
Drennan (1st Team) = 39 points, 20 rebounds, 5 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals and 5 turnovers in 97 minutes played.

Contrast this with his game against UWP, for instance, where he played a "more physical player" and put up 11 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 0 blocks, 2 steals, and 0 turnovers in 40 minutes.

Or vs. Fontbonne (definitely "smaller build, shorter players") when he had a double double in 20 minutes of playing.

If you're meaning to answer the question by saying "he didn't," then I'm not sure what you're basing your view on.