MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

I just get confused when things don't make sense... like an honorable mention All-American 2008 being a front runner for Player of the Year 2009 against a player that has been Regional Player of the Year for 3 years straight.  The more I find out, the more confusing it gets.

Why would 2008 performance have bearing on the 2009 Player of the Year?

You said heading into the season that you suspected Bartolotta and Raymond to be in a 2 man race.  Their 2008 status should have no bearing on the end of the year 2009 status.  I was just wondering why you'd pick an Honorable Mention 2008 All American to be a front runner heading into the season 2009.

I did not say that. Heading into the awards process I expected it to be a two-man race.

[CCIWchamps]

I just get confused when things don't make sense... like an honorable mention All-American 2008 being a front runner for Player of the Year 2009 against a player that has been Regional Player of the Year for 3 years straight.  The more I find out, the more confusing it gets.

Why would 2008 performance have bearing on the 2009 Player of the Year?

You said heading into the season that you suspected Bartolotta and Raymond to be in a 2 man race.  Their 2008 status should have no bearing on the end of the year 2009 status.  I was just wondering why you'd pick an Honorable Mention 2008 All American to be a front runner heading into the season 2009.

I did not say that. Heading into the awards process I expected it to be a two-man race.

Thank you for the clarification, though in re-reading your post, actually there was no time frame specified.  I inferred incorrectly. 

[Scrub023]

CCIWchamps, cant you live with the 1st team All-American? I'm a LU fan, and personally, I feel Kroeger is one of the best guards in DIII, and if he wasn't as unselfish as he was, he would be up in the 20pt avg range and possibly All-American 1st team status, but I'm thrilled he even got honorable mention. I don't think that Raymond is complaining about the selection. Maybe I missed part of the argument, but we should all be happy with the selections given to us.

[usee]

The D3hoops.com Player of the Year is M.I.T. guard Jimmy Bartolatta. 

(Full teams will be posted later.)

Wow, that makes 0 sense.  Fine, an overstatement.  That makes 35% sense.

I don't expect a Wheaton person to understand the selection, but I feel 100% confident in it. They were the only two candidates, but in the end, I thought Bartolotta was simply a better player.

100% confident in it? really pat? I have no qualms with the selection of Bartolotta but it seems the lively debate goes against any kind of 100% confidence level. I think that's a bit over the top and frankly appears you are on here beating your chest. You say at least two times that "Bartolatta was simply a better player". Why do you feel the need to come on here and say that? It weakens your credibility. The best player I saw all year was Jeff Skemp but I certainly am not 100% confident he is the best player. His 38 pt performance at King arena was the best show I have seen this year. I also thought Sean Wallis was one of the best players I have seen in D3 and WashU was definitely the best team I saw. I am not 100% confident though. There aren't many things I can say with 100% confidence and given the fact there are at least 2 and more likely 3-4 players who could have been POY I think its pretty lame to come on the CCIW board and say that.

[fcnews]

Wow. I can't believe I woke up this morning and this line of discussion is still running. As Scrub said, I also come on here as a fan of team that got a player on the AA as a HM. We are extremely honored.

POY is a very subjective award. Very similar to MLB MVP award. As a Cards fan we have thought Pujols should of been MVP several times, when he wasn't.

The one big difference is in the MLB there are incentives in players contracts for receiving an award like this. That is not the case in this situation. This DIII basketball.

I am one who does not believe Pat Coleman needs to justify a selection. If it wasn't for Pat, and this site, there wouldn't be this award or the forum to discuss it.

Both players seem to be very deserving. I have seen Raymond play twice this year and enjoyed watching him play. I also saw the most dominant performance I've seen in quite awhile put up by Jeff Skemp. I saw Aaron Thompson and Sean Wallis put  together outstanding seasons.

It's an award. I do not believe it will effect the future of Kent Raymond or his legacy as one of the best players in the country.

It's just an award.

[Pat Coleman]

I wouldn't name a Player of the Year if I wasn't 100% confident in the pick. I said that because I want people to know that I am standing 100% behind my pick.

It wasn't to say that nobody else could be considered for the award -- we did consider Bartolotta and Raymond. But I am standing behind the pick and I am 100% confident in it. That's what I was getting at.

[titan2000]

CCIWchamps, cant you live with the 1st team All-American? I'm a LU fan, and personally, I feel Kroeger is one of the best guards in DIII, and if he wasn't as unselfish as he was, he would be up in the 20pt avg range and possibly All-American 1st team status, but I'm thrilled he even got honorable mention. I don't think that Raymond is complaining about the selection. Maybe I missed part of the argument, but we should all be happy with the selections given to us.

Scrub, I assume by this you don't mean Raymond is selfish, do you?  I wouldn't say that, he's a great player.   I am sure the CCIW folks here think Bartolotta is, just because.

[CCIWchamps]

I wouldn't name a Player of the Year if I wasn't 100% confident in the pick. I said that because I want people to know that I am standing 100% behind my pick.

It wasn't to say that nobody else could be considered for the award -- we did consider Bartolotta and Raymond. But I am standing behind the pick and I am 100% confident in it. That's what I was getting at.

Pat, you've been very forthcoming and fair about this discussion, and I appreciate that.  On the other board you mentioned that on court demeanor had nothing to do with it.  You've also mentioned a complete stat line.  What are the ingredients you consider in your selection process?  I promise I will not turn around and throw most of it back in your face.   

[Pat Coleman]

I think I've said more than enough on this matter for you to figure out what's considered.

[titan2000]

Pat:

Maybe you should rescind the award to Bartolotta and give it to Sully the US Air pilot.  I mean it's only fair. 

T2K

[usee]

No way. Sully is a goose killer.

[CCIWchamps]

I think I've said more than enough on this matter for you to figure out what's considered.

Well, I stand by my sincere appreciation of your discussion thus far.  Though you never answered about strength of schedule, I'll assume it was not involved in the mix and view the results accordingly.  As many have pointed out, you have done well in creating All-Region and  All-American teams and a website to serve as a hub of D3 hoops talk.  I will be happy with your selections thus far.

[Mugsy]

No way. Sully is a goose killer.

LOL... I needed this.

[Pat Coleman]

I think I've said more than enough on this matter for you to figure out what's considered.

Well, I stand by my sincere appreciation of your discussion thus far.  Though you never answered about strength of schedule, I'll assume it was not involved in the mix and view the results accordingly.  As many have pointed out, you have done well in creating All-Region and  All-American teams and a website to serve as a hub of D3 hoops talk.  I will be happy with your selections thus far.

Of course it was. It simply was not the be-all and end-all. You are hanging your hat on that, I know -- and I care, don't get me wrong. But I can't put every good CCIW, WIAC and UAA player ahead of everyone else every year. There are, indeed, great players in other leagues.

[CCIWchamps]

I think I've said more than enough on this matter for you to figure out what's considered.

Well, I stand by my sincere appreciation of your discussion thus far.  Though you never answered about strength of schedule, I'll assume it was not involved in the mix and view the results accordingly.  As many have pointed out, you have done well in creating All-Region and  All-American teams and a website to serve as a hub of D3 hoops talk.  I will be happy with your selections thus far.

Of course it was. It simply was not the be-all and end-all. You are hanging your hat on that, I know -- and I care, don't get me wrong. But I can't put every good CCIW, WIAC and UAA player ahead of everyone else every year. There are, indeed, great players in other leagues.

Good to hear.  You just never answered when I asked.  Obviously you can't put a player from a strong league over a player from a weak league, just because.  The only reason I bring it up is that the stats between the two are so similar.  If JB put up 32 and 6, or 28 and 10, I wouldn't be arguing about strength of schedule.  But 2 baskets and 3 rebounds in an extra 6 mintues a games get lost somewhere between the 7th and 177th difficulty schedule.  Heck, if MIT had played the 50th hardest schedule I'd shut up.  The disparity between 7 and 177 is the most noticeably large disparity between the players.

But, the horse is dead.  Thanks for listening.  I can move on with my life now.