MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[cardinalpride]

During the UConn/MSU game, an announcer mention that UConn's Adrien entered elite company with >1,500 points and >1,000 rebounds during his collegiate career.

So, my question to you, what CCIW stars have also reached those two goals?

Thanks in advance.

Only three from Augie:
1. Steve Snow (1965-69) 1595/1152
2. John Laing (1969-73) 2035/1330
3. Bruce Hamming (1971-75) 1668/1060

Likewise 3 from IWU:

Jack Sikma (73-77) 2272/1405
Greg Yess (78-82) 1833/1068
Sheldon Thompson (67-71) 1573/1069

[I was surprised Zach Freeman (03-07) didn't make it; he easily had the points, but 'only' 819 rebounds.]

Unfortunately,
no one in NCC history is in that elite company! 
Mike Moore is the only player to reach 1000 pts and rebounds!  However, Gary Groharing is the closest to 1,500 by 1,000 milestone with 1,450pts and 997 rebs.  The second closest is Bill warden or Don Austin depending how you would look at the numbers.

SCORING
Most Points - Career
2,249 - Bill Warden, 1951-55
1,660 - Steve Hoeft, 1969-73
1,597 - Robert Brown, 1986-90
1,450 - Gary Groharing, 1966-70
1,369 - Don Austin, 1969-73*
1,198 - Mike Moore, 1970-74 *

REBOUNDS
Most Rebounds - Career
1,178 - Mike Moore, 1970-74
997 - Gary Groharing, 1966-70
902 - Don Austin, 1969-73
806 - Bill Warden, 1951-55
800 - Steve Hoeft, 1969-73

[dansand]

Carthage:
None

Elmhurst:
1. Jim Peters (1966-70) 1599/1252

Millikin:
1. Roger Lotchin (1953-57) 1548/867*
2. Jesse Price (1965-69) 2222/1437
*867 includes only the last 40 games (21.7 per game) of Lotchin's 88-game career. It's a pretty safe bet that he grabbed at least 133 in his first 48 games.

North Park:
1. Greg Crawford (1966-70) 1690/1156
2. Michael Harper (1976-80) 1880/1184

Wheaton:
1. Norm Pott (1950-54) 1768/1265
2. Mel Peterson (1956-60) 2542/1767

[Mugsy]

Mel Peterson... whoa!  2500 pts and 1700 boards.  Incredible.

[sac]

Notice how most of these occured prior to the early 80's.  Totally different game now.

[CCIWchamps]

Mel Peterson... whoa!  2500 pts and 1700 boards.  Incredible.

Agreement.  Those are huge numbers.

[markerickson]

Totally different game now?  The trey means more rebounds.  Does the trey mean more points?  I am not  sure about that and I am not fan of the trey.  In my opinion, offenses have become lazy, generally speaking.  However, in the Spartan victory versus the Cardinals, there was a point in time in the second half when Coach Izzo called plays during timeouts, and every time the Spartans converted on the offensive end.

Going into the FF, I would have won the office pool if UConn won it all.  Go Spartans!!!

[markerickson]

In the years that I've visited this wonderful website, I do not recall reading the name of Greg Yess.

[sac]

Totally different game now?  The trey means more rebounds.  Does the trey mean more points?  I am not  sure about that and I am not fan of the trey.  In my opinion, offenses have become lazy, generally speaking.  However, in the Spartan victory versus the Cardinals, there was a point in time in the second half when Coach Izzo called plays during timeouts, and every time the Spartans converted on the offensive end.

Going into the FF, I would have won the office pool if UConn won it all.  Go Spartans!!!

Actually 3 pt attempts per game have been steadily increasing since its introduction, in D1 we're up to 19 per game (stats not released for 2009 yet).  Rebounds per game has steadily declined since the introduction of the 3 point shot, and you could probably throw the shot clock in as a another reason.  So rebounds have declined while 3 point shots have increased.

The game is played at a more controlled pace now, many schools' highest scoring teams came from the 60's and 70's.  Just since 1991 scoring has declined almost 10 percent or roughly 7 points per game per team.  FG attempts per game has been declining almost every year since 1973 except for a couple, but we're again almost 10% fewer attempts per game lower.

These are the only trend stats I could find, I know I've seen a more complete list somewhere on the NCAA site in the past which included rebounding from the 70's.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/eb3e0e0766dc17f/all_time_trends.pdf?MOD=AJPERES


Certainly these stats are for D1, but I don't believe the D3 stat trends would be that much different.

[Mr. Ypsi]

It is the 1,000 rebounds that is the more impressive mark.  IWU has had 9 1,500 point scorers (some way over), but the three I mentioned are the only 3 with a thousand+ rebounds.

Think about it: with a 25-game season (plus perhaps postseason), even a 4-year starter must average about 10 rebounds a game to reach 1,000.  If he doesn't see all that much action as a freshman (usually the case), the average would have to be even higher.  It truly is elite company!

Especially in d3.

[petemcb]

I wonder whether these rebounding totals include the always debatable pre-conference throwaways....

[Dennis_Prikkel]

A thousand rebounds were easier to come in the pre-1970 days because

1- all defensive fouls resulted in at least one free throw attempt
2- shooting percentages weren't as high as they are now

dgp

[dansand]

Great points by Sac, Mr. Ypsi and Dennis. It's a little counter-intuitive, but the pace of the game today is considerably slower than at various times in the past.

Looking at the trends that Sac posted, compare 1951-52 with 2007-08. In '51-52 the average game had 93 missed field goal attempts and 19 missed free throw attempts. In 2007-08, just 62 missed field goal attempts and 12.5 missed free throw attempts. Obviously, not all free throw misses result in a rebound opportunity (missed front ends of two-shot fouls are offensive dead ball rebounds), but looking at these numbers, there were about 50% more rebounds per game available in '51-52 than 2007-08.

The affect of the three-point shot has really been negligible in relation to available rebounds. There were 59.8 FG misses per game in the last season before the three-pointer, 61.2 FG misses in the first year of the rule, and 62.0 in 2007-08.

On a side note, I'll be interested to see the three-point stats (both attempts and percentage) for 2008-09 to see how moving the line back a foot affected the shot. My guess is very little.

[Pat Coleman]

And missed three-point shots tend to result in rebounds further from the basket, rather than within a big man's reach.

[markerickson]

My +k button went wild this morning thanks to the posted research and opinions!

[Gregory Sager]

Contrary to Bob Sakamoto's report in the Sun-Times, Chicago was very much in the mix for Scarlata as well.

Isn't that Kramer's friend on Seinfeld?

Every time that I see Sakamoto's byline, I think of Kramer's invisible friend Bob Sacamanno from Seinfeld. I'm sure that Sakamoto curses the day that that sitcom was ever put on the air.

In the years that I've visited this wonderful website, I do not recall reading the name of Greg Yess.

Yess was an outstanding power forward. He and center Joel Fruendt (father of former Batavia star and current Northwestern swingman Nick Fruendt) made a very solid inside combo for IWU. Along with Brad Gregurich (and, especially post-Yess, small forward Blaise Bugaski), they made the Titans of our college days at NPC a potent force in the CCIW. Yess had some classic battles with North Park's Jim Clausen.

And missed three-point shots tend to result in rebounds further from the basket, rather than within a big man's reach.

My thoughts exactly. I think that the greatest impact of the three-point shot vis-a-vis rebounding has been to distribute rebounding numbers a bit more throughout the team as a whole, rather than having rebounding be the monopoly of the C and PF.