MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

   Wow -- How does Elmhurst receive more votes than Carthage? Or any for that matter of fact.  "Q" who are the other voters from the midwest?

Sorry if this ruffles some feathers, but a better question is---- How did Elmhurst receive any votes?
This is a team of guards who were regularly drubbed this summer in Deerfield. The sum of their inside experience was to be Aaron Hintzsche, who we have recently learned is not returning this year. Zack Boyd is a decent player, but hes the last station on the main line. This team enters the season with less presence inside than Carthage--a team whose own posters have lamented the lack of their inside game.
Lets say the superior coaching staff of Scherer, Baines, & Doyle each received 4 votes.

Not sure if CARTHAGE really received any votes.   
Me thinks Stevie D got 3, but because his shirt says Carthage, they were instead credited to the institution.

With regard to Illinois Wesleyan--While it would have been perfectly understandable,
Bob didn't even vote for them! Evidently he didn't share his insider info with his fellow voters. If D3Hoops' top Wesleyan supporter didn't vote for them, how could anyone else?? 

Wheaton deservedly finished #2 last year. The reputation gained last season has evidently carried over to the start of this year. As I said a few pages earlier, a very solid starting 5, but after that, the edge of the cliff comes up rapidly!

I think Augie is right about where they should be----AND, they should be the highest ranked CCIW team.

JMHO----Over & out.   

[Hardwood]

I think Augie is right about where they should be----AND, they should be the highest ranked CCIW team.

JMHO----Over & out.  

Can you explain your rationale on this?

(modified by GS for formatting)

[Titan Q]

Mark, last year Carthage - despite their lack of depth, lack of scoring balance, etc, etc - finished 7-7 in the CCIW.  Just one win from the 8-6 record that got #4 North Central to the conference tournament.  Carthage returns basically that entire team (the couple guys they lost can easily be replaced)...and every team that finished ahead of them in the 2009 CCIW standings (Wheaton, Elmhurst, Augustana, North Central) lost an absolute ton.  

So...as I see it, Carthage (despite the same lack of balance) has to be one of the CCIW favorites heading in.  I just don't understand how Augustana can be viewed ahead of them at this point.  Carthage and Augie split last year - each winning on its home floor.  Here is the boxscore from the Carthage win:

http://www.carthage.edu/athleticspages/mens/basketball/augie1.htm

Carthage returns every player of significance from that game.  Augustana has lost 4 starters - Chandlor Collins, Alex Washington, Justin Bertrand, and Jordan Delp - and reserve Brett Wessels (a CCIW 1st teamer as a junior).  Respectfully, I don't see how Augie can be viewed as more of favorite right now - that seems to be taking a huge leap of faith with 4 new Augie starters and several new reserves.  Again, the Red Men only finished 2 games behind last year and have everyone back.

And a team in the discussion of "CCIW favorite" getting votes in the preseason Top 25 should not be considered a crazy thing.

[Titan Q]

The Elmhurst poll points are pretty bad.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

The November issue of "The Lutheran Magazine" of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is always devoted to the 28 colleges and universities supported by the church.

This year's issue just hit the newsstands and there is an interesting table of endowment figures provided by the schools.

CCIW schools (in millions)
Augiestana (one G) - $113
Carthage (one G) - $43

other midwest schools of interest in alphie order (no G)
Augsburg - $31
Augustana (SD) - $50
Bethany (KS) - $24
Capital - $60
Concordia (Moorhead, MN) - $79
Grand View - $11
Gustavus Adolphus (one G) - $114
Luther - $119
St. Olaf - $335
Valpo - $199 (non an ELCA school, but Lutheran)
Wartburg - $36
Wittenberg - $119

[John Gleich]

The November issue of "The Lutheran Magazine" of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is always devoted to the 28 colleges and universities supported by the church.

This year's issue just hit the newsstands and there is an interesting table of endowment figures provided by the schools.

CCIW schools (in millions)
Augiestana (one G) - $113
Carthage (one G) - $43

other midwest schools of interest in alphie order (no G)
Augsburg - $31
Augustana (SD) - $50
Bethany (KS) - $24
Capital - $60
Concordia (Moorhead, MN) - $79
Grand View - $11
Gustavus Adolphus (one G) - $114
Luther - $119
St. Olaf - $335
Valpo - $199 (non an ELCA school, but Lutheran)
Wartburg - $36
Wittenberg - $119

When I started to read this, I thought you were going to say that they ranked the basketball teams... LOL!

[dansand]

North Central has posted its roster:

http://northcentralcardinals.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

As AndOne reported earlier, just six players who saw any varsity minutes last year return. Looks like most of last year's freshman class is gone including Mark Adams, who was very impressive with the JV team. Based on career games and minutes played, the Cardinals edge out Augie as the league's least experienced team this year. Elmhurst is the only CCIW school that hasn't posted this year's roster.

[robberki]

North Park is having their Blue-Gold scrimmage this weekend. If anyone is in the area, stop by Foster and Kedzie at 6 pm on Sunday to check out the 09-10 Vikings!

[Gregory Sager]

North Central has posted its roster:

http://northcentralcardinals.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

As AndOne reported earlier, just six players who saw any varsity minutes last year return. Looks like most of last year's freshman class is gone including Mark Adams, who was very impressive with the JV team.

Adams played in 15 varsity games as well, averaging over nine minutes per appearance. I thought that he had great CCIW potential. The other 2008-09 North Central freshman whom I thought showed a very nice upside in the one NCC JV game I saw, Brett Hulett, appears to be gone as well.

Based on career games and minutes played, the Cardinals edge out Augie as the league's least experienced team this year. Elmhurst is the only CCIW school that hasn't posted this year's roster.

I suspect that when the Elmhurst roster is posted the 'jays will either be the league's least experienced team or they'll at least give #1 NCC a run for the money.

North Park is having their Blue-Gold scrimmage this weekend. If anyone is in the area, stop by Foster and Kedzie at 6 pm on Sunday to check out the 09-10 Vikings!

Finally! Can't wait!

[BlueJay21]

I would expect an Elmhurst roster up within the next week or so along with a season preview. There will be a lot of familiar faces playing this year for the Bluejays but some freshman and transfers will probably see some playing time. Here is how I think it breaks down as of now by position.

1 Starter-Dustin Bainter (Mike Mccurdy, Jimmy Saris)
2 Starter-Chris Childs (Matt Bernier, Erik Ellingson)
3 Starter-Zac Boyd (Jordan Fairbairn, James Robertson)
4 Starter-Joe Acosta (Aaron Schroeder, Brian McMahon)
5 Starter-Matt Kaban/Erik Dornfield/ or Wes Dukeman

The 4 and 5 positions are really wide open for the Bluejays but they could opt to go big and have one of the 5's I have listed start at the 4. Another option would be to move Boyd to the 4 and play another one of their wings at the 3. A lot of competition at each position, but that's how I see it breaking down as of now.

[Gregory Sager]

Piggybacking on your post, RB, I figured that I'd re-post Dan's Elmhurst recruit list so that readers can picture the Elmhurst newbies alongside the returnees when looking at your depth chart:

Baile Barnett, 6-5, Gary (IN) Westside

Myles Burton, 6-6, 200, Libertyville...9.7 ppg, 5.0 rpg

Christian Dillon, 6-7, Kaneland...6.5 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.6 apg, 0.7 spg...Daily Herald Honorable Mention All-Area

Erik Dornfeld, 6-6, Geneseo...2nd team All-NCIC Reagan

Geneseo HS   GP   FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Reb  RRG  Pts  PPG
2008-09..... 28  109-248  .440   4-12   .333 117-171  .684  192  6.9  339 12.1

Jordan Fairbairn, 6-2, Neuqua Valley/Kishwaukee CC

Kishwaukee CC   GP  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg   A  TO Blk Stl  Pts  Avg
2007-08........ 29 125-245  .510  40-94   .426  52-68   .765            90  3.1  73          35  342 11.8
2008-09........ 28  65-167  .389  21-70   .300  40-57   .702   21  49   70  2.5  35  53   4  12  191  6.8

D'Ante Foster, 5-10, Muskegon (MI) Catholic...11.7 ppg, 4.3 apg...4th team Class D All-State...Muskegon Chronical All-Area

Mike Jackson, 6-3, Thornwood

Matt Kaban, 6-7, Driscoll Catholic...14.4 ppg, 7.9 rpg...Suburban Life All-Area...IBCA Honorable Mention 1A/2A All-State

Ethan Koehler, 6-3, 180, Midland...First team All-Tri-County Conference...IBCA 4th team 1A/2A All-State...
AP Honorable mention 1A All-State

Midland HS   GP   FG  3FG   FT-FTA   Pct  OR  DR  Reb  RPG   A  Blk Stl  Pts  PPG
2008-09..... 28  208   28   51-85   .600 107 186  293 10.5  49   84  51  495 17.7

Antonio Little, 6-1, South Beloit...Unanimous All-NUIC...AP Honorable mention 1A All-State...
IBS Small School Honorable mention All-State

South Beloit HS   GP  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Reb  Avg   A  TO Blk Stl  Pts  Avg
2008-09.......... 29 164-379  .433  87-218  .399  91-126  .722  108  3.7 111  44   2  87  506 17.6

James Robertson, 6-2, 175, Peoria Richwoods...16 ppg, 3 rpg, 2 apg, 86 3pfg...2008 IBCA 3A/4A 3rd team All-State...2008 1st team Mid-State 6 All-Conference

Doug Small, 6-7, Dee-Mack...IBCA Special mention 1A-2A All-State...Bloomington Pantagraph Honorable mention All-Area

Dee-Mack HS   GP   FG  3FG   FT  Reb  RPG  Pts  PPG
2008-09...... 30  166   62   41  207  6.9  435 14.5

Rich Thomas, 6-8, Reavis...All-South Suburban Red Conference

[AndOne]

North Central has posted its roster:

http://northcentralcardinals.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

As AndOne reported earlier, just six players who saw any varsity minutes last year return. Looks like most of last year's freshman class is gone including Mark Adams, who was very impressive with the JV team.

Adams played in 15 varsity games as well, averaging over nine minutes per appearance. I thought that he had great CCIW potential. The other 2008-09 North Central freshman whom I thought showed a very nice upside in the one NCC JV game I saw, Brett Hulett, appears to be gone as well.

The roster that is currently posted for North Central should not necessarily be viewed as the final product. Said roster was issued in conjunction with picture day at NC where the returning players basically get 1st choice if they want their old jersey number again, and then the rest of the uniforms are just handed out, often on a seniority basis for pictures. Accordingly, the roster posted may very well not be the same one we ultimately see printed in the opening tourney game program and posted on the NCC web site.

As far as Mark Adams, sadly it seems that indeed he will not be playing this year. Mark attended summer school this year, and upon returning to school last month, the outlook was that he would be playing again this year. However, he chose not to attend any of the open gyms, and has apparently made the decision not to play this season. This is a real shame from a basketball standpoint as he would have had an excellent chance to be a starter. He ended last season on a high note scoring 12 points in each of the year's final 2 games, both against Wheaton in the final regular season game, and then in the CCIW tourney 1st round. However, it looks like academics will be his focus at this point in time which, after all, is the primary consideration in attending school in the 1st place.

Brett Hulett was a soph last year, not a frosh. Brett is a heck of a good guy and I'll miss him this year. I personally think Brett felt somewhat caught up in a numbers game, and felt the amount of PT he might get would not warrant the large investment he would have to make in terms of practice time and other team related obligations. 

[dansand]

I suspect that when the Elmhurst roster is posted the 'jays will either be the league's least experienced team or they'll at least give #1 NCC a run for the money.

Unless the Bluejays have a lot of unexpected losses, they'll have quite a bit more 4-year experience than Augie. Here are the numbers I came up with, including transfers from 4-year schools:

AUGUSTANA         GP   GS   MIN
Matt Pelton       83   55  1853
Mike Avallone     39    0   469
Brian DeSimone    25    0   397
Bryant Voiles     25    0   396
Kyle Nelson       22    4   342
Drew Croegaert    21    0   146
Chris Anderson     8    0    21
Troy Rorer         6    0    19
Griffin Dwyer      2    0     7
Terrence Green     5    0     6
Augustana        236   59  3656
         
CARTHAGE          GP   GS   MIN
S. Djurickovic    50   50  1821
Sean Fendley      65   44  1655
Adam Tolo         25   25   659
R.Williams        31   14   455
Cody Hilton       38   11   394
Max Cary          25    5   368
Eric Moore        41    1   209
Steve Ideran      29    3   173
Matt Weel         11    0    55
Pace Bennett      13    0    47
Jon Cieski        16    0    39
Kevin Newman       4    0    24
Jake Hasse         2    0     2
Carthage         350  153  5901
         
ELMHURST          GP   GS   MIN
Chris Childs      74   13  1316
Dustin Bainter    64   29  1290
Zack Boyd         27   25   573
Joe Acosta        42    0   459
Mike McCurdy      27    5   439
Jimmy Saris       19   10   266
Matt Bernier      27    0   194
Erik Ellingson     8    0    28
A.Schroeder        6    0    10
Brian McMahon      3    0     6
Wes Dukeman        2    0     3
J.Rollins          2    0     2
David Lopez        2    0     2
Elmhurst         303   82  4588
         
ILL. WESLEYAN     GP   GS   MIN
T. Rosenkranz     52   49  1615
Johnson, Sean     51   50  1570
Sexauer, Doug     52   25  1173
Dwyer, Sean       46   14  1020
J. Koschnitzky    25   20   613
Zimmer, Jordan    25    7   460
E. O'Callaghan    33    5   442
Schick, Matt      38    3   440
Lawson, Duncan    30    2   248
Connolly, Ryan    10    0    39
E. Gonzalez        7    0    22
E. McCullough      3    0     8
S. Rudnicki        3    0     7
Ill. Wesleyan    375  175  7657
         
MILLIKIN          GP   GS   MIN
Demby, Joscar     66   51  1478
Warren, Charles   67    7   946
Burton, Robert    40   25   731
Demby, Devin      49    3   716
Mitchell, Corey   25   22   649
Arthur Miller*    25    7   609
Ryan Shelton*     28    2   317
J. Thompson       17    0   178
Derron Wooten*     7    0    58
Taylor, Kyle       1    0     1
Millikin         325  117  5683
         
NORTH CENTRAL     GP   GS   MIN
Reid Barringer    73   44  1850
David Twyman      51   32  1052
Jon Knapczyk      30    3   248
Brian Evans       27    0   155
Kyle Julius*       7    2   131
Kevin Gillespie    6    0    21
Mike Winans        5    0    14
North Central    199   81  3471
         
NORTH PARK        GP   GS   MIN
Nick Williams     73   40  2027
Roshawn Russell   25   22   864
DJ Cooper         21    9   425
P. Schniedermeier 22   13   405
Ryan Beigie       22    7   386
Kendall Greer     24    7   330
Issa Avery        20    6   214
Emmanuel Crosby   19    1   182
Jorge Gonzalez     6    0    65
D.Robinson*       10    0    53
Dawon Mitchell     8    0     8
Nick Hoekstra      2    0     0
North Park       252  105  4959
         
WHEATON           GP   GS   MIN
Ben Panner        86   86  2925
Jacob Carwell     86   82  2112
Andrew Jahns      55   25  1531
Ben Cochran*      48   44  1324
Tim McCrary       30   30   738
Aaron Garriott*   30    4   650
David Eseke       22    0    91
Jesse Viars       13    0    64
S. Pierotti       14    0    43
Josh Kvam         14    0    35
S. Schultze       12    0    30
J. Shackelford    11    0    22
Wheaton          421  271  9565

* 4-year transfer

[Mr. Ypsi]

Nice work, dansand!  +k

Of course, that listing alone doesn't tell anything about the quality of the experience, but it certainly surprised me to see that, despite the loss of Raymond, Wiele, et. al., Wheaton is actually the MOST experienced team in the CCIW.   And I guess I'll have to shelve my 'baby Titans' moniker, since they came in second.

I'm mildly surprised that ANY CCIW team made the pre-season top 25 (I think the feeling must be that a poll with NO CCIW team is not quite legit! )  I'm looking forward to a wide open conference race.  I have no doubt that 2-3 will be in the top 25 by February - I just have no clue which teams they will be.

[Gregory Sager]

Nice work, dansand!

Yes, Dan, nice work indeed. I was surprised by how the experience factor shakes out.

It's not entirely accurate, as it doesn't list all of the transfer experience -- NPU has a new juco transfer who's most likely gonna start; IWU, NCC, and Elmhurst have new juco transfers who may see action as well; and some players (such as Adam Tolo of Carthage and several of the Millikin players) had extensive experience at other schools before transferring in prior to the 2008-09 season. But I think that you have the general outlines right. I know that you were only looking at experience at four-year schools, and I don't blame you -- statistical archiving on juco websites is practically nonexistent -- but the juco-accrued experience should count, too.

I've broken down your figures into team-only form for easier comparison:

team	GP	GS	MIN
Augustana	236	59	3656
Carthage	350	153	5901
Elmhurst	303	82	4588
Ill. Wesleyan	375	175	7657
Millikin	325	117	5683
North Central	199	81	3471
North Park	252	105	4959
Wheaton	421	271	9565