MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[BlueJay21]

Ha yes we are. Joe Acosta has played the 4 position since his first practices at EC. He is a very strong and tough kid who is not afraid to mix it up inside. He is not a great shooter and with all of the depth at the guard position for the Bluejays he is slotted at the 4 position. He will definitely be the smallest 4 man in the league.

[Titan Q]

Ha yes we are. Joe Acosta has played the 4 position since his first practices at EC. He is a very strong and tough kid who is not afraid to mix it up inside. He is not a great shooter and with all of the depth at the guard position for the Bluejays he is slotted at the 4 position. He will definitely be the smallest 4 man in the league.

Thanks.  Just making sure I wasn't missing a new "Acosta" and confusing the two!

[Titan Q]

2010 CCIW Preseason Coaches Poll

1. Wheaton - 46 (4 first place votes)
2. Augustana - 39 (2 first place votes)
3. Carthage - 37 (1 first place vote)
4. Illinois Wesleyan - 36 (1 first place vote)
5. Elmhurst - 22
6. Millikin - 17
7. North Central - 15
8. North Park - 12

[Hardwood]

  I'm still mystified how a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them? 

[Dennis_Prikkel]

  I'm still mystified how a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them? 

Answer: Recent Coaching reputation.  This is a "Coaches" league.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

2010 CCIW Preseason Coaches Poll

1. Wheaton - 46 (4 first place votes)
2. Augustana - 39 (2 first place votes)
3. Carthage - 37 (1 first place vote)
4. Illinois Wesleyan - 36 (1 first place vote)
5. Elmhurst - 22
6. Millikin - 17
7. North Central - 15
8. North Park - 12

Not much "love" expressed in this poll for a North Park team that returns 98% of last year's scoring.

[Titan Q]

Breaking this down a little more...

Each coach ranks the other teams in the league 1-7 (you can't vote for yourself)...

1st = 7 poll pts
2nd = 6
3rd = 5
4th = 4
5th = 3
6th = 2
7th = 1

Looking at the 2010 vote, I think it shows the following tiers of expectations from the coaches:

----------
A favorite

Wheaton (46 pts) = 6.57 average poll pts
----------
Indecision about spot #2 among 3 teams

Augustana (39) = 5.57 average
Carthage (37) = 5.29 average
Ill Wesleyan (36) = 5.14 average
----------
Consensus on #5

Elmhurst (22) = 3.14 average
----------
3 teams very close in the bottom 3 spots

Millikin (17) = 2.42
North Central (15) = 2.14 average
North Park (12) = 1.71 average
----------


Also note, the 10-point gap between #1 Wheaton and #4 Illinois Wesleyan is smaller than any 1-4 gap in the previous 10 polls (the average in that span is 17 poll points):

2009: 14 (#1 Wheaton 46, #4 IWU 32) - 2 teams w/ 1st place votes
2008: 18 (Augustana 47, NPU 29) - 2
2007: 14 (North Central 47, Wheaton 33) - 3
2006: 17 (IWU 49, Carthage 32) - 2*
2005: 18 (IWU 49, Carthage & Augie 31) - 2*
2004: 18 (Augustana 49, Carthage 31) - 2*
2003: 17 (Carthage 47, Wheaton 30) - 3
2002: 18 (Carthage 48, Wheaton 30) - 2
2001: 20 (Carthage 49, Augustana 29) - 2*
2000: 16 (Wheaton 46, Carthage 30) - 3


I've also noted above the number of teams that received 1st place votes in the last 10 polls (keep in mind there has to be at least 2, since coaches can't vote for their own team).  The * denotes seasons in which 7 coaches all voted a certain team #1 (a perfect 49 poll points).  You'll note that the 4 teams receiving 1st place votes in 2010 is more than any in the previous 10 polls.

I believe the poll confirms a lot of the discussion here in the early going:

* Wheaton, Augustana, Carthage, and IWU are considered the top 4 teams
* Between those top 4, it is considered to be relatively close

The biggest surprise for me was seeing NPU at #8, based on their returning talent.  I guess after 0-14 though, the Vikings will have to earn their respect.

[Titan Q]

Most importantly, note the success of the CCIW coaches in picking the outright winner the last 10 years:


2009: Wheaton
2008: Augustana
2007: North Central (Augustana)
2006: IWU* (Augustana)
2005: IWU*
2004: Augustana* (IWU)
2003: Carthage (Carthage/IWU/Augie)
2002: Carthage
2001: Carthage* (Elmhurst)
2000: Wheaton (Carthage)

* = unanimous pick


Just 4 correct out of 10...and only 1 of the 4 unanimous picks went on to win.

[AndOne]

 I'm still mystified how a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them?  

Geez Hard, your answer is very simplistic. I think you know you need to look at WHO the various involved teams have coming back, not just the fact that they might have returning players.

You mentioned Augie, Wesleyan, and Carthage, so lets take a look.

Carthage--Between Steve D (27.6) and Sean Fendley (14.0) they return 41.6 ppg between them. Without question, the best backcourt in the CCIW. I'd even venture one of the best in D3. The only real weakness they have is lack of foot speed/quickness. However, what else does Carthage really have coming back as far as significant contributors?  Adam Tolo is a 6'6" player who shies away from contact. He provides no real inside help. He contributed 7.1 ppg, but 29 of his 62 made baskets last year were 3 pointers, and he didn't even show up in the top 20 league rebounders.    Richard Williams was barely visible during the entire year. Max Cary is a nice player, but hes not a big which is where Carthage needs improved play.

Wesleyan--To me, a collection of perplexing players. This year's juniors were widely reported to be among the best group of incoming freshmen in the country when they came on board. In 07-08 they went 9-5 in conference and 16-11 overall. However, last year they regressed, badly. They slipped to 5-9 in the CCIW and 13-12 overall. Granted they lost Gant, but should have had the combined firepower to make up most, if not all, of his rebounds and points. I do look for a vast improvement in this team this year. If that doesn't happen I think the primary considerations would have to be this year's juniors and sophs were overrated coming in, there is poor chemistry among the team, poor coaching, or some combination of the 3. The talent should be there. The question is can they play up to their expected potential. Based on last season's record, thats a valid question, and likely the one the conference coaches concentrated on in this year's poll.

Augie--Yes, they have only one starter returning. Matt Pelton was a CCIW all conference player last year. While they lost all their other starters, and I believe their 6th man, they probably have the best core of players that saw meaningful minutes returning. DeSimone, Avallone, Nelson, and Voiles ALL played in 21 games or more.
DeSimone can really run the team well. He had a nice assist/TO ratio, and his development since last year was evident in this summer's games in the Deerfield League. Avallone contributed 5.4 ppg while shooting over 45% from beyond the arc. Voiles, at 6'9" shot 51.3 including a whopping 46.7 from 3 point range. Nelson, also 6'9" is a budding star who hit 54.7 percent of his shots. If you saw these guys play last year, it should have been evident that they're better overall players than the subs Carthage or Wesleyan inserted in their lineups last year.

Keep in mind, I only mentioned players who were around last season, not newcomers. However, if you do take new players into consideration, I think you would have a good arguing point if you took the position that Augie's incoming class is the best overall. What will serve as Augie's bench will be the strongest group of subs in the CCIW.    

[Hardwood]

 I'm still mystified how a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them?  

Answer: Recent Coaching reputation.  This is a "Coaches" league.

Does that mean IWU/Carthage have questionable coaching reputations or that Augustana's staff has a good reputation??

(modified by GS for formatting)

[John Gleich]

  I'm still mystified how a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them? 

Answer: Recent Coaching reputation.  This is a "Coaches" league.

Does that mean IWU/Carthage have questionable coaching reputations or that Augustana's staff has a good reputation??

I think the comment looks more favorably on Augie's good coaching reputation... (as seen by their consistent play near or at the top of the league standings year in and year out), but DP will have to answer for himself in terms of if he feels IWU and Carthage have questionable coaching.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

  I'm still mystified how a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them? 

Answer: Recent Coaching reputation.  This is a "Coaches" league.

Does that mean IWU/Carthage have questionable coaching reputations or that Augustana's staff has a good reputation??

I think the comment looks more favorably on Augie's good coaching reputation... (as seen by their consistent play near or at the top of the league standings year in and year out), but DP will have to answer for himself in terms of if he feels IWU and Carthage have questionable coaching.

Dont put that one on me.  Someone has to be first in the poll, someone has to be eighth.  I dont get a vote - talk to the coaches that do.

I stand by my statement - the CCIW is a coaches league - you can evaluate the pre-season poll by that statement if that's what turns you on.

dgp

[AndOne]

 I'm still mystified how a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them?  

Answer: Recent Coaching reputation.  This is a "Coaches" league.

Does that mean IWU/Carthage have questionable coaching reputations or that Augustana's staff has a good reputation??

If you're talking about reputation in terms of the ability to coach, both Augie's Giovanine and Carthage's Djurickovic have among the finest reputations in all of Division III basketball. Djurickovic has won national championshipS. You can't do any better than that.
With regard to Coach Rose, he has only been head coach for 3 seasons and has compiled a 40-37 record. I think the jury is still out as to his coaching reputation.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[John Gleich]

  I'm still mystified how a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them? 

Answer: Recent Coaching reputation.  This is a "Coaches" league.

Does that mean IWU/Carthage have questionable coaching reputations or that Augustana's staff has a good reputation??

I think the comment looks more favorably on Augie's good coaching reputation... (as seen by their consistent play near or at the top of the league standings year in and year out), but DP will have to answer for himself in terms of if he feels IWU and Carthage have questionable coaching.

Dont put that one on me.  Someone has to be first in the poll, someone has to be eighth.  I dont get a vote - talk to the coaches that do.

I'm not putting anything on you.  I was merely making a conjecture based on a statement.  That's all.  I'm not the one who stated that this is a coach's league in direct response to the question:

"a team like IWU or Carthage can return the majority of players and a team like Augustana with one returning starter can be picked above them?"

And as an aside... there doesn't necessarily have to be a #1 team and a #8 team.  It is mathematically plausible (though certainly not likely...) that each team could get votes for spots 1-7 and they could all be the same, or for that matter, that two or more teams could be tied at the top or bottom.

I stand by my statement - the CCIW is a coaches league -

Good, we hope you do... but we'd just like a bit more explanation.  It could be that you are giving props to a certain coach's reputation, or that you are denegrating a couple of coaches.  We didn't make the potentially polarizing comment, you did.

you can evaluate the pre-season poll by that statement if that's what turns you on.

dgp

Again, he was just asking for clarification about a response that was a bit vague.  I tried to shed some light... perhaps I did, perhaps I didn't.  Why don't you, so the issue can be resolved?

[Hardwood]

Thanks Point -- I missed the opportunity to follow up with "DP" but after following your reply I couldn't have said it anymore clearly.  I'm not trying to put anyone on the spot, just trying to get a better understanding of the "perception" of coaches in the CCIW.