MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

I thought this kid would probably end up in the CCIW...

http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles1/matthasse.html

[Mr. Ypsi]

I thought this kid would probably end up in the CCIW...

http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles1/matthasse.html

If only he played in as obscure a place as St. Anne, Dennie Bridges would have made sure Ron Rose got him!

[dansand]

I thought this kid would probably end up in the CCIW...

http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles1/matthasse.html

Is the kid at Carthage his brother?

[AndOne]

Dan---

Jake Hasse at Carthage is his cousin.

[Titan Q]

On the status of IWU 6-9 sophomore center Eric McCullough...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/article_e3c4627e-c841-11de-801c-001cc4c03286.html


Some high school video of McCullough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR1tF7Y8ltI&feature=related


Would be nice to see him get healthy and in the competition for time at the 5.

[Gregory Sager]

North Park hosted Benedictine in a scrimmage last night. It was fairly even; NPU won two of the three halves, but barely outscored the Bennies on the night. As is the case with most first scrimmages barely two weeks into the preseason, it was ugly basketball that was not for the faint of heart. The Vikings need a lot of work in a lot of different areas. But what one had to keep in mind while sitting in the stands and cringing is that most other teams are stumbling and floundering around at this stage as well.

At least NPU is a lot healthier than it was at this point last season. The Vikings aren't completely healthy, as Ryan Beigie and Christian Alsing are out with sprained ankles, but that's nothing compared to last preseason's M*A*S*H unit.

I'm impressed with two of the NPU freshmen, 6'5 center/forward Zach Dungee from Wheaton North and 5'11 point guard David Williams from Tinley Park. They look like they could be good CCIW players somewhere down the road. Another freshman that I've heard good things about, 6'3 guard Brandon Bibbs from St. Joe's, has been ill and didn't suit up for the scrimmage.

[augiefan]

I found Titan's ranking of all 8 team's potential starters interesting and about as accurate at predicting success as the Coach's Poll. If Titan is even close to correct, then NPU should be the surprise team in the CCIW.

Among the things his ranking of only the starters fails to consider are the following:

1. Coaching skill

2. Bench strength

3. Injuries.

The impact of coaching skill is kind of subjective, but I think we know Augie, Carthage, Wheaton, Elmhurst and probably IWU have excellent coaches, but the other 3 coaches are not exactly losers. No dramatic edge for any team in this category, if you don't have relatively equal or better players than the other guy.

Bench strength has normally been a plus for Augie, IWU and Wheaton. Augie's bench is really green this year, and we all know that except for exceptional players like Kent Raymond and Steve D., freshmen tend to struggle in the CCIW. I think IWU has the best depth at this point.

Injuries are the true unknown. If Steve D. gets hurt Carthage is probably toast, while Panner getting hurt would be rough on Wheaton.  The injury situation is where the depth and bench strength make or break a team.

I think IWU should be the CCIW favorite this year, because of a talented and now experienced group on a team with a deep bench. However, I do not recall a season where so many excellent players have to be replaced, particularly on last season's 4 CCIW tourney teams.

I think this race is up for grabs with no sure wins or losses. It should be a great ride.

[OurHouse]

Well, part of the problem with the whole ranking thing -- not that I'm knocking your or FAN3's attempts to do so, Bob, since they're obviously good conversation fodder -- is right there in your use of the term "CCIW-proven". Numerous players that are projected to be CCIW starters have never even suited up for a game yet, including one of the shooting guards you've listed (junior transfer Shaun Collins of NPU). That introduces a whole bunch of x factors into the rankings. The same thing holds true for Aaron Garriott of Wheaton, f'rinstance.

I'm also not all that certain that these are the players that will be matched up against each other. The guard situations of some teams (Wheaton, for example) are fairly fluid.

Having said all that, I agree that the CCIW doesn't appear to have a lot of proven all-around games among the eight players that you've listed as starting shooting guards. And I've already stated that Zimmer is a terrific shooter. Nevertheless, based upon what I saw last season, I don't see anything to Zimmer's game at the moment aside from his perimeter shooting ability.

Remember, Bob drinks from the Kool-Aid.
He is a set shooter, thats it for now.
MMW

[AndOne]

I think that North Park has the potential to have a very strong bounce-back season. The only significant absence from last year's team will be Clayton Cahill, who is most likely going to take the year off from playing and will return to the team next year with junior eligibility status -- and NPU got used to playing without him, anyway, since he missed the last ten games of the 2008-09 season with a thigh injury. The two transfer guards that NPU has added, junior Shaun Collins and sophomore Davone Robinson, are CCIW-ready players who will be big additions. However, it would be presumptuous to assume that NPU will become a better defensive team just because everyone's a year older (for that matter, it's presumptuous to assume the same thing of Illinois Wesleyan as well), and the jury's going to remain out on Paul Brenegan until he gets NPU into the first division.

I think North Park is this year's "sleeper." Why in the world shouldn't they appear in the CCIW tourney? As partial evidence in support of this position I offer the following:
1. Big Phil S. has the potential to be the league's dominant center man.
2. Especially if he "gets his grove back," and keeps his focus all season, NPU has one of the league's finest all around and most superior players in Nick Williams who should be an all CCIW 1st team performer.
3. This team has a wealth of superior talent and athleticism across the board. This summer, they usually had the largest contingent of players at the Deerfield summer league games, and often times ran players in and out at every position (even bringing a whole new team in on occasion)with no noticeable drop off in production.
4. As a baseball team needs to be good up the middle, and a FB team needs strong leadership from the QB position, NP is "led" by Roshawn Russell who can dribble, pass, and score. And DON'T put him on the foul line.  Stevie D's backcourt partner on the all-conference 1st team?

Augiefan----

Truer words were never spoken.  

If IWU can live up to the potential that I believe was expected last season when they fell far short of expectations, I think that with their depth and experience they'll do very well.

If Coach G can get his injured/ill players better and start the team he'd like to, I think Augie is a slight favorite. They too have talented backups, but many are freshman and prone to the miscues we have all seen freshmen commit on a rather consistent basis.

With regard to NPU, above are the comments I posted about them back on 10/9.

[Titan Q]

Remember, Bob drinks from the Kool-Aid.

True, but I think you drink the Jack/7's...lots of them.  You gotta get off that stuff dude.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Remember, Bob drinks from the Kool-Aid.

True, but I think you drink the Jack/7's...lots of them.  You gotta get off that stuff dude.

"DUDE?" 

[Gregory Sager]

I found Titan's ranking of all 8 team's potential starters interesting and about as accurate at predicting success as the Coach's Poll. If Titan is even close to correct, then NPU should be the surprise team in the CCIW.

Shhhh! Just keep saying over and over, "The coaches say that NPU will finish eighth, the coaches say that NPU will finish eighth, the coaches say that NPU will finish eighth ..."

Among the things his ranking of only the starters fails to consider are the following:

1. Coaching skill

2. Bench strength

3. Injuries.

I'd add a fourth, which is that the rankings imply a uniform scale that is not realistic. Bob said that himself with regard to Steve Djurickovic in his original post:

Actually, I found these position rankings to be pretty tough to do - in other words, there were a lot of tough calls.  There was only one clear-cut, this guy is so much better than everyone else situation - Steve Djurickovic .  And that is why I continue to feel like Carthage is the favorite...he is off-the-charts good, and I think his supporting cast is good enough.

In Bob's defense, let's also remember that he wasn't making his preseason picks for who would finish where in the standings. He'd already done that, and he picked Carthage -- who finishes fifth in his combined rankings of starters -- to win the league. So he already took those four things (your three points plus my point) into consideration elsewhere.

The impact of coaching skill is kind of subjective, but I think we know Augie, Carthage, Wheaton, Elmhurst and probably IWU have excellent coaches, but the other 3 coaches are not exactly losers. No dramatic edge for any team in this category, if you don't have relatively equal or better players than the other guy.

Agreed, with the caveat that only three head coaches in this league have really proved themselves on the CCIW level: Bosko Djurickovic, Grey Giovanine, and Mark Scherer. They're the only three coaches that have: a) won CCIW titles; and b) currently have winning CCIW career records. Paul Brenegan, Todd Raridon, Ron Rose, and Marc Smith have neither CCIW titles nor winning CCIW career records, while Mike Schauer, although a highly-successful coach in two lesser D3 leagues, has yet to dip his toe into the turbulent rapids of head-coaching CCIW games. It should be noted, though, that Raridon did coach a Nebraska Wesleyan team that made it to the D3 national championship game, so he's undoubtedly got head-coaching bona-fides that match anybody's but Bosko's and possibly Grey's.

[Titan Q]

Sure to be controversial, I've ranked the projected starters by positon...


PG (1)
1 Steve Djurickovic, 6-3 (Jr) - Carthage
2 Matt Pelton, 6-2 (Sr) - Augustana
3 Roshawn Russell, 5-10 (So) – North Park
4 Aaron Garriott, 6-3 (So) - Wheaton
5 Travis Rosenkranz, 6-0 (Jr) - IWU
6 Dustin Bainter, 6-2 (Sr) - Elmhurst
7 Corey Mitchell, 6-0 (Sr) - Millikin
8 Jon Knapczyk, 6-1 (Sr) - NCC

SG (2)
1 Sean Fendley, 6-1 (Sr) - Carthage
2 Sean Johnson, 6-1 (Jr) - IWU
3 Reid Barringer, 6-0 (Sr) - NCC
4 Shaun Collins, 6-2 (Jr) – North Park
5 Brian DeSimone, 6-1 (So) - Augustana
6 Andrew Jahns, 6-2 (Jr) - Wheaton
7 Chris Childs, 6-2 (Sr) - Elmhurst
8 Charles Warren, 6-2 (Sr) - Millikin

G/F (3)
1 Ben Panner, 6-3 (Sr) - Wheaton
2 John Koschnitzky, 6-6 (So) - IWU
3 David Twyman, 6-3 (Sr) - NCC
4 Adam Tolo, 6-6 (Sr) - Carthage
5 Kendall Greer, 6-4 (Jr) – North Park
6 Zack Boyd, 6-2 (So) - Elmhurst
7 Mike Avallone, 6-4 (Jr) – Augustana
8 Devin Demby, 6-2 (sr) - Millikin

F (4)
1 Nick Williams, 6-5 (Sr) – North Park
2 Doug Sexauer, 6-7 (Jr) - IWU
3 Tim McCrary, 6-6 (So) - Wheaton
4 Bryant Voiles, 6-9 (Jr) - Augustana
5 Robert Burton, 6-4 (Sr) = Millikin
6 Raul Guzman, 6-6 (Fr) - Carthage
7 Derek Raridon, 6-6 (Fr) - NCC
8 Joe Acosta, 6-2 (Jr) - Elmhurst

F/C (5)
1 Kyle Nelson, 6-9 (Jr) - Augustana
2 Jake Carwell, 6-7 (Sr) - Wheaton
3 Joscar Demby, 6-7 (Sr) - Millikin
4 Phil Schneidermeier, 6-7 (Jr) – North Park
5 Joe Meyerhoff, 6-8 (Fr) - NCC
6 Edmond O'Callaghan, 6-7 (Jr) - IWU
7 Tyler Pierce, 6-5 (Fr) - Carthage
8 Wes Dukeman, 6-9 (So) - Elmhurst


And by simply adding the totals up (lower number the better) – a very scientific process, of course - my starting lineup rankings...

IWU: 5+2+2+2+6 = 17
NPU: 3+4+5+1+4=17
Wheaton: 4+6+1+3+2=18
Augie: 2+5+7+4+1=19
Carthage: 1+1+4+6+8 = 20
NCC: 8+3+3+7+5=26
Millikin: 7+8+8+5+3=31
Elmhurst: 6+7+6+8+8=35


Actually, I found these position rankings to be pretty tough to do - in other words, there were a lot of tough calls.  There was only one clear-cut, this guy is so much better than everyone else situation - Steve Djurickovic .  And that is why I continue to feel like Carthage is the favorite...he is off-the-charts good, and I think his supporting cast is good enough.

Obviously a just-for-fun exercise, but enjoy for what it's worth.

augiefan, I only set out to rank projected starters, 1-8, at each position.  Using that I came up with a ranking of starting lineups.  I made clear it was "obviously a just-for-fun excercise."

As Greg pointed out, I was not attempting to rank teams.  I posted my 2010 CCIW predictions a couple weeks ago...

1. Carthage
2. Illinois Wesleyan
3. Wheaton
4. Augustana
5. North Park
6. Millikin
7. Elmhurst
8. North Central


Heck, we could probably come up with 20 factors that determine success outside of just how good your starters are (off the top of my head, I'd add "chemistry" and "good furtune", aka luck).

Just drumming up a little chatter here.

[John Gleich]

... And I think if you put weightings on your rankings, it might shed some additional light on things.  

For example... Carthage has two 1's, a 4, a 6, and an 8.  That averages out to 5 4's... with equal weighting, but that simply won't be the case when they toss the ball up.  

The 6 and the 8 are not going to be the guys throwing the ball up 30 times a game... that will be the two 1's.  So if we give the two 1's a 2/5 weighting, the 4 a 1/10 weighting, and the 6 and 8 a 1/20 weighting instead of giving everyone the assumed 1/5 weighting, then the total comes to 9.5... and the average is 1.9.

Now, of course, you can't just do this with Carthage (and these numbers are off... they won't be that skewed)... but it just shows a different way of using these rankings that might be more meaningful and might actually project a team ranking as opposed to just a composite of personnel rankings.

EDIT:  And, of course, this doesn't take into account guys off the bench.  It will then likely penalize a team like Augie who subs like a hockey team.  It also doesn't show show a true range of the ranked players... players 1 and 2 are the same "distance" as players 4 and 5... and 1 and 4 are the same "distance" as 5 and 8, but there may be a huge dropoff as Greg just noted.

It might be more meaningful if there was a range... or if players were individually ranked on a 100 point scale as opposed to just one vs. another.

But I don't think that anybody really wants to take it that far!

[AndOne]

The impact of coaching skill is kind of subjective, but I think we know Augie, Carthage, Wheaton, Elmhurst and probably IWU have excellent coaches, but the other 3 coaches are not exactly losers. No dramatic edge for any team in this category, if you don't have relatively equal or better players than the other guy.

Agreed, with the caveat that only three head coaches in this league have really proved themselves on the CCIW level: Bosko Djurickovic, Grey Giovanine, and Mark Scherer. They're the only three coaches that have: a) won CCIW titles; and b) currently have winning CCIW career records. Paul Brenegan, Todd Raridon, Ron Rose, and Marc Smith have neither CCIW titles nor winning CCIW career records, while Mike Schauer, although a highly-successful coach in two lesser D3 leagues, has yet to dip his toe into the turbulent rapids of head-coaching CCIW games. It should be noted, though, that Raridon did coach a Nebraska Wesleyan team that made it to the D3 national championship game, so he's undoubtedly got head-coaching bona-fides that match anybody's but Bosko's and possibly Grey's.

And keep in mind that a large percentage of Raridon's players throughout his years at Nebraska Wesleyan came right from Lincoln, where NWU is located, with all but a handful of the remainder of the players coming from very small Nebraska towns.

Lincoln has about the same population as the Naperville & Aurora area combined, rather than the millions in the Chicago metro area. The players from other Nebraska towns usually came from places that had microscopic populations compared with even the average size Chicago suburb or a town the size of Rock Island, Bloomington, or Kenosha. The NWU players weren't from hotbeds of basketball---especially in a state where football is the unquestioned king!

I think you can put Raridon's coaching skills right up there with anyone's.
If you doubt that, you have only to look as far back as last season. Raridon's NCC team was picked to finish 6th, but made the conference tourney despite having to compete twice against:
1. A team that had a 1st team All-American, and 3 all conference players.
2. A team that had a 2nd team, All-American, and 3 all conference platers
3. A historically strong team that had 5 or 6 guys taller than the tallest NCC player, including 3 all conference players.
4. A team with a 3rd team All-American guard who might be the best DIII guard in the country this year.
I rest my case.