MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[petemcb]

Pete---

Yes, you are mistaken. But its easy to understand why in this case. There was discussion about two different people in the same post. So, with regard to your question:
1. Augie's and NCC's academics are indeed very close.
2. The other player that was referenced (not Norton) did not qualify at NCC, and most likely Augie, but is currently at Carthage, and is a member of their basketball team.

Hope that clears things up.

Thanks Mark.  That makes more sense.

[petemcb]

Very surprised. Doesn't sound like the Sean Fendley I have followed since his junior year of high school.
Maybe he underwent a transformation up there in God's country. Perhaps too much Leinenkugels?  

Looks pretty official though as Fendley's name has been removed from the roster on the Carthage basketball web site. Cody Hilton to the rescue?

I'm a Hilton fan.  In the words of Robert Hunter, Jerry Garcia, Bob Weir, et al, "one man gathers what another man spills".  I hope things work out, at least personally and academically, for Sean.  Tough break your senior year.

[izzy stradlin]

--

Lastly, your comment about "young men who have not chosen to go the Naperville route" is laughably absurd, especially considering the fact he was not recruited by the "Naperville school" as he couldn't qualify academically. Accordingly, there was no choice involved.  
   


   

So are you saying that he was admitted and qualified at Augie, but would not have qualified at NCC?  I must be misunderstanding something, because, with all due respect to NCC, Augie's academics, by reputation, are at least the equal of NCC's, right?

Augie is 1-2 tiers above NCC academically.

[AndOne]

Augie is 1-2 tiers above NCC academically.

Whoa Nellie!

Both schools have almost the exact same Admission Criteria. Same number of years of English, math, and social science. North Central actually requires 3 years of science and foreign language compared to only 2 years of each for Augie.

The middle 50 percent of Augie students scored an average of 25.5 on the ACT.
The middle 50 percent of NCC students scored an average of 25.0 on the ACT.

The average GPA of incoming Augie students was 3.5
The average GPA of incoming NCC students was 3.5

U.S. News & World Report ranks North Central among the top Midwestern colleges and universities.
The Princeton Review identifies North Central as "one of the best in the Midwest."
Peterson's Competitive College guide rates North Central among the "top choices for top students."

Specifically, in the U.S. News and World Report rankings, North Central is classified as TIER 1 and is ranked number 19 in the Master's Degree granting category with a score of 58
Augie is classified as Tier 1 and ranked number 97 in the Liberal Arts category with a score of 51

The sources of my information are the NCC and Augie web sites, and U.S. News & World Report.
Where did you get your information?   

Now tell me again how much better a school Augie is than North Central.   

[petemcb]

US News and World Report's College rating system is a little tricky.  It doesn't really lend itself to comparing schools in different categories.  Where a school ranks in the Liberal Arts College category cannot be compared to where a school ranks in the University-Master's category.  The way they have it set up, it is not apples to apples.  This includes their Academic Reputation score.  That number only stands against other schools in their category.  FWIW.

[Gregory Sager]

Very surprised. Doesn't sound like the Sean Fendley I have followed since his junior year of high school.
Maybe he underwent a transformation up there in God's country. Perhaps too much Leinenkugels?  

Looks pretty official though as Fendley's name has been removed from the roster on the Carthage basketball web site. Cody Hilton to the rescue?

I'm a Hilton fan.  In the words of Robert Hunter, Jerry Garcia, Bob Weir, et al, "one man gathers what another man spills".  I hope things work out, at least personally and academically, for Sean.  Tough break your senior year.

Sorry to hear that about Fendley. That's gonna really shake things up for Carthage, as All-CCIW players don't grow on trees and he was a key piece to the puzzle for the Red Men.

[Gregory Sager]

One last reminder about the annual CCIW pick'em contest, which starts with tomorrow's opening-day contests. Everyone is welcome to join! Be sure to put in your picks for the first week's games in the CCIW pick'em room prior to the start of tomorrow's contests.

[NPC-Alum]

Bob Quillman asked me years ago about NPC All-American Justyne Monegain and what kind of player he was.  I was watching the Bulls tonight and realized that Luol Deng reminded me of Justyne (C85 and a classmate of mine).  Quicker around the basket than a lot of the guys they played agaisnt and able to take advantage.

Of course, Justyne had a whole lot less 7 footers hanging around the hoop than Luol does, but I do belive the two are comparble players.  No doubt Greg will let us know if he remembers differently.

Good luck to all CCIW fans and teams this season.

[augie22]

School Rankings from Forbes.com
(let me add that I have no criteria as to how forbes measures these schools)

91. Wheaton College
179.  Augustana College
228.  Illinois Weslyan
239.  North Central College
349.  Elmhurst

[izzy stradlin]

Augie is 1-2 tiers above NCC academically.

Whoa Nellie!

Both schools have almost the exact same Admission Criteria. Same number of years of English, math, and social science. North Central actually requires 3 years of science and foreign language compared to only 2 years of each for Augie.

The middle 50 percent of Augie students scored an average of 25.5 on the ACT.
The middle 50 percent of NCC students scored an average of 25.0 on the ACT.

The average GPA of incoming Augie students was 3.5
The average GPA of incoming NCC students was 3.5

U.S. News & World Report ranks North Central among the top Midwestern colleges and universities.
The Princeton Review identifies North Central as "one of the best in the Midwest."
Peterson's Competitive College guide rates North Central among the "top choices for top students."

Specifically, in the U.S. News and World Report rankings, North Central is classified as TIER 1 and is ranked number 19 in the Master's Degree granting category with a score of 58
Augie is classified as Tier 1 and ranked number 97 in the Liberal Arts category with a score of 51

The sources of my information are the NCC and Augie web sites, and U.S. News & World Report.
Where did you get your information?   

Now tell me again how much better a school Augie is than North Central.   

As Pete said, you are using the U.S. News site incorrectly.

NCC is ranked regionally in the Midwest under Universities- Masters.
The rank and score which you bolded and highlighted come from comparison to the other schools in each category.  The top schools to which NCC is compared are Creighton, Butler and Drake.
   
Augustana is ranked nationally under Liberal Arts colleges.
The top schools in this category are Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore etc.   The quality of schools in each category is quite different.  If Augie is placed in NCC's category, they probably rank in the top 5.   

(just FYI, since Carthage was also mentioned:-they are also listed regionally, but in a different category:  Baccalaureate Colleges -.Midwest)

The apples to apples comparison on objective data that US news does make is selectivity.  All institutions are classified as either:
1.   most selective
2.   more selective
3.   selective
4.   less selective
NCC is classified as selective.
Augie is classified as more selective.

I am not sure what ACT data you used, but here are the interquartile ranges for the ACT in 2008 from US news:
Carthage
21-26
NCC
22-27
Augie
23-29

A full 2 point difference in the 75th percentile is fairly significant on a test like the ACT.

As a disclaimer, I have no tie to either school.

[AndOne]

Izzy--

The figures I used are from the AC and NCC web sites. You indicated the figures you used are from 2008.
Here are the figures directly from the CURRENT Augie web site:

Standardized tests

Augustana currently accepts scores from either the ACT or SAT I. If you have taken a test multiple times, we will consider your highest composite score. The middle 50% of Augustana students score between a 23 and 28 on the ACT.

****************************************************************

There is no possible way you can substantiate your statement "if Augie is placed in NCC's category they probably rank in the top 5.

As far as I can tell, Augie does not offer any Masters degree programs. North Central offers Masters degrees in Business Administration, Education, Leadership, Liberal Studies, Computer Science, and Information Systems.

[AndOne]

School Rankings from Forbes.com
(let me add that I have no criteria as to how forbes measures these schools)

91. Wheaton College
179.  Augustana College
228.  Illinois Weslyan
239.  North Central College
349.  Elmhurst

Augie22--

Forbes is a business magazine whose motto is "The Capitalist Tool." Its hardly an authoritative tool on the question of college rankings as compared with several other well know publications which have been ranking colleges for several years as opposed to Forbes who first published its list in only 2008.

With regard to the validity of the Forbes rankings, here is just one article I located that calls their rankings into question:

http://www.collegeadmissionspartners.com/college-selection/forbes-absurd-college-rankings/

Additionally, I wonder what issue of Forbes you reviewed that listed the ranking as you detail them above. Here is a current listing from Forbes own web site, that presents a different view:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/94/colleges-09_Americas-Best-Colleges_State_6.html

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/94/colleges-09_Americas-Best-Colleges_State_7.html

As you can see, this is Forbes list broken down alphabetically by state. It shows the following rankings:

103--Wheaton
159--North Central
226--Illinois Wesleyan
271--Augustana
405--Elmhurst

More than just a little different from the rankings given above.
In summary, there is just no way that "Augie is 1-2 tiers above North Central" as laughably proposed earlier. The CCIW is composed of 8 very good schools with probably not much of a difference between them.
And now back to the games?

[Titan Q]

Well, I'm not sure how anything makes the months of November to March bearable in the Midwest, but CCIW/D3 basketball does that for me.  On opening day 2009-10, here's to another great season...good luck to all!

[hopefan]

TQ   -  looking to see you in Bloomington next Sunday for a hoped for Wash U - IWU matchup!!!!

[kenoshamark]

Here is the Kenosha News article as Carthage kicks off the season this afternoon....

http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/youth_a_good_sign_for_carthage_6751098.html