MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

pete, I confess to being in the same ballpark as a 'word nerd' as Greg - I frequently use the word 'rigamarole' (though, following Webster's, I spell it rigmarole)!

Zing!

(Sorry, Greg, the devil made me do it! )

Both the American Heritage Dictionary and the Random House Dictionary list "rigamarole" as an accepted variant spelling of the word, Chuck.

[Titan Q]

St. Xavier knocked off #7 Georgetown (Ky) today.  There are 4 strong NAIA I programs in Illinois this year - Robert Morris, McKendree, Olivet Nazarene, and St. Xavier.  

The NAIA I preseason poll...

http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102609aac.html


Looking forward to seeing what happens when #5 McKendree plays @ Wash U. on 12/4...might have to drive over for that one.

[Titan Q]

Final from Decatur...

Webster 46
Millikin 44

Check out this final minute of play...

01:24 Millikin GOOD! 3 PTR by Wooten, Derron Wumbb 46 - Millikin 44 (Wumbb by 2)
   ASSIST by Warren, Charles
01:18 Wumbb TIMEOUT 20sec  
01:10 Wumbb FOUL by Restoff, Scott
01:10 Wumbb TURNOVR by Restoff, Scott
00:57 Millikin TURNOVR by Wooten, Derron
00:51 Wumbb TIMEOUT 20sec  
00:46 Wumbb TURNOVR by Moore, Drew
00:34 Millikin STEAL by Ferguson, Sedric
00:28 Millikin TURNOVR by Warren, Charles
00:41 Wumbb TURNOVR by Strickland, Jerry
00:38 Millikin TIMEOUT 30sec  
00:25 Millikin MISSED JUMPER by Mitchell, Corey
   REBOUND (OFF) by Warren, Charles
00:20 Millikin MISSED JUMPER by Warren, Charles
00:20 Wumbb BLOCK by Moore, Drew
   REBOUND (DEF) by (TEAM)
00:15 Wumbb TURNOVR by Moore, Drew
00:14 Millikin STEAL by Mitchell, Corey
00:11 Millikin TIMEOUT 20sec  
00:06 Millikin MISSED JUMPER by Demby, Joscar
   REBOUND (OFF) by Mitchell, Corey
00:04 Wumbb FOUL by Restoff, Scott
00:04 Millikin MISSED FT SHOT by Mitchell, Corey
   REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
00:04 Millikin MISSED FT SHOT by Mitchell, Corey
   REBOUND (DEF) by (TEAM)



If I'm reading that right, after Millikin cut it to 46-44 with 1:24 to play, Webster did not have a field goal or free attempt the rest of the game...Millikin was 0-3 from the field and 0-2 from the FT line...and Webster had 4 turnovers and Millikin 2.

Ugly!

[Titan Q]

Final from Dubuque....

Wheaton 82
Loras 60

* Ben Panner: 29 pts
* Tim McCrary: 16 pts, 6 reb, 4 assists
* Andrew Jahns: 10 pts, 7 reb, 4 assists

[hopefan]

Webster had 2 points after a hoop at the 6:15 mark...  but "held" Millikin to 8 during the same stretch....

[Titan Q]

I don't think we'll all be traveling to Decatur for the conference tournament this year.

[WUPHF]

I used to work at Saint Xavier years ago.  They are perennial powers in almost every sport including basketball.  I watched them give DePaul and Loyola very close games a few years ago.  And, they have taken out a host of Division II and III schools, though I think they had a down year last year.  One of the basketball coaches told me that specifically that he viewed NAIA Division I as equivalent to NCAA Division II and cited the lack of Chicago-area and Division II schools (only Lewis and Wisconsin-Parkside) as evidence.  That was his opinion, of course, because his theory would not explain why Illinois-Springfield joined the GLVC.

I have seen McKendree (vs. Lindenwood) play this year and they look very good, though I think Washington University will take them at home where they are very strong.

[Titan Q]

I used to work at Saint Xavier years ago.  They are perennial powers in almost every sport including basketball.  I watched them give DePaul and Loyola very close games a few years ago.  And, they have taken out a host of Division II and III schools, though I think they had a down year last year.  One of the basketball coaches told me that specifically that he viewed NAIA Division I as equivalent to NCAA Division II and cited the lack of Chicago-area and Division II schools (only Lewis and Wisconsin-Parkside) as evidence.  That was his opinion, of course, because his theory would not explain why Illinois-Springfield joined the GLVC.

I have seen McKendree (vs. Lindenwood) play this year and they look very good, though I think Washington University will take them at home where they are very strong.

Typically, good St. Xavier and Olivet Nazarene teams are on par with the top 1-2 CCIW teams.  Fellow CCAC member Robert Morris, and their steady stream of D1 major transfers, is in another class.

I also favor Wash U over McKendree.

[izzy stradlin]

With all due respect to the above posters, I have a hard time hearing NAIA-DI programs considered to be "powers" or "strong programs."   To me, the programs mentioned are simply weak scholarship-basketball programs.   

We can keep creating divisions and subdivisions for schools to join until everyone can consider themselves a strong program by achieving a lofty ranking, but in IMO there are only strong scholarship programs (the top of the  ACC, SEC, Big Ten etc) and strong non-scholarship programs (the top of the cciw, wiac, uaa, ivy league etc).

Obviously there are differences on average in resources, total scholarship dollars, enrollment etc between NCAA D1 and other scholarship basketball, but the disparities are also there between fellow NCAA D1 schools. 

The Chicago States of the world could be considered good programs if people would just stop comparing them to the darn Big Ten or even MVC schools.....   all they need to do is group themselves in the right "scholarship" division.

[Titan Q]

With all due respect to the above posters, I have a hard time hearing NAIA-DI programs considered to be "powers" or "strong programs."   To me, the programs mentioned are simply weak scholarship-basketball programs.  

We can keep creating divisions and subdivisions for schools to join until everyone can consider themselves a strong program by achieving a lofty ranking, but in IMO there are only strong scholarship programs (the top of the  ACC, SEC, Big Ten etc) and strong non-scholarship programs (the top of the cciw, wiac, uaa, ivy league etc).

Obviously there are differences on average in resources, total scholarship dollars, enrollment etc between NCAA D1 and other scholarship basketball, but the disparities are also there between fellow NCAA D1 schools.  

The Chicago States of the world could be considered good programs if people would just stop comparing them to the darn Big Ten or even MVC schools.....   all they need to do is group themselves in the right "scholarship" division.

I'm not following your point.  You do realize that the best NAIA I teams are generally better than the best NCAA III teams, right?  And that, just as the case with any division, there are certain NAIA programs that are traditionally strong within the NAIA world (like Concordia of California, Azusa Pacific, Georgetown of Kentucky, Mountain State, etc)...just as the UW-Stevens Point's, Hope's, Wooster's, Amherst's, Wash U's, etc are in D3.  Locally, Robert Morris has become an NAIA powerhouse, Olivet Nazarene is a terrific program overall, and St. Xavier is also strong most years.

I don't think there is a CCIW team this season as good as this year's Olivet Nazarene team.  And in terms of overall small college basketball "programs", there are probably only 3-4 CCIW programs that have been on par with ONU over the course of the last decade or so.

NAIA II has some great "programs" too, like Bethel (IN), Cornerstone, etc.

[titanhammer]

I used to work at Saint Xavier years ago.  They are perennial powers in almost every sport including basketball.  I watched them give DePaul and Loyola very close games a few years ago.  And, they have taken out a host of Division II and III schools, though I think they had a down year last year.  One of the basketball coaches told me that specifically that he viewed NAIA Division I as equivalent to NCAA Division II and cited the lack of Chicago-area and Division II schools (only Lewis and Wisconsin-Parkside) as evidence.  That was his opinion, of course, because his theory would not explain why Illinois-Springfield joined the GLVC.

I have seen McKendree (vs. Lindenwood) play this year and they look very good, though I think Washington University will take them at home where they are very strong.

Typically, good St. Xavier and Olivet Nazarene teams are on par with the top 1-2 CCIW teams.  Fellow CCAC member Robert Morris, and their steady stream of D1 major transfers, is in another class.

I also favor Wash U over McKendree.

Q, if you go to the game, be sure to sit next to Aunt Rose...she does know her stuff after watching 40 years of games...and she may recall you from last time.  While I do appreciate the Titan effort, I think that Wolff, Hobbie, or other defender of Uncle Harry's choice may provide more of an obsticle for Mr. Thompson.  Wish I could join you, but will just be getting back from Seattle.

I will give you Wash U, straight up...despite the location.

[Thunder Dutch]

So I was listening to the interview with Coach Schauer after the Wheaton - Loras game, and one of the things he said was that he was surprised that Ben Panner was not mentioned in the preseason All-Americans. He definitely seemed to think that BP was "one of the ten best guards in the country." I would probably agree, on the strength of his exceptional defense and consistently good offense over the years; he's obviously been overshadowed by Kent, especially offensively, but I don't know enough about other guards around the country (I've seen the WashU pair and Steve D) to completely judge that. Any thoughts?

[AndOne]

In a game for the ages tonight in Aurora----
In THREE OTs:

North Central--119
Aurora---------118

The teams fired a total of 159 shots from the field, 78 of which found their mark.
Included in the barrage were 51 threes, 24 of which were successful.
The 2 teams shot a combined 79 free throws, converting 57.

3 players from each team fouled out.
10 players scored in double figures.
5 scored over 20 points
1 (Reid Barringer of NCC) scored 33

[REDMENFAN]

Not knowing as much about NAIA basketball as football, I'd like to hear what some others think. I know the past few years some top D-3 football teams have beaten some top NAIA teams pretty badly. Whitewater and Lacrosse come to mind beating Azusa Pacific and one other I can't think of off the top of my head several years in a row.

[BlueJay21]

So I was listening to the interview with Coach Schauer after the Wheaton - Loras game, and one of the things he said was that he was surprised that Ben Panner was not mentioned in the preseason All-Americans. He definitely seemed to think that BP was "one of the ten best guards in the country." I would probably agree, on the strength of his exceptional defense and consistently good offense over the years; he's obviously been overshadowed by Kent, especially offensively, but I don't know enough about other guards around the country (I've seen the WashU pair and Steve D) to completely judge that. Any thoughts?

I have always thought that Ben Panner is the most underrated player in the CCIW. He is the best perimeter defender in the CCIW and has been since his arrival at Wheaton. His combination of quickness and length makes it tough on whoever he is guarding, which is usually the best offensive player on the other team. He is a for sure 1st team all CCIW player this year, and if Wheaton does happen to win the conference then I think he has a shot at MOP. Just my opinion.