MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

So what do we make of all these results so far? Wheaton gets blasted by hope but beats Calvin, Carthage narrowly goes 1-1, IWU lose to UofC after Wheaton beats them handily, Wheaton has WashU this week. I guess Q's analysis is valid that the top 4 in the conf are all pretty close and have their strengths/weaknesses. Should make for an exciting CCIW season.

[usee]

So the reality it that the Titans are somewhere between very good (as they were vs Wash U) and terrible (which they were today).

That's pretty much true for all of Division 3 isn't it?

[Titan Q]

So the reality it that the Titans are somewhere between very good (as they were vs Wash U) and terrible (which they were today).

That's pretty much true for all of Division 3 isn't it?

Right.

[Gregory Sager]

Just got back from the Ratner Center, where I saw Chicago cruise to a 68-60 win over Illinois Wesleyan, and based upon what I saw I have a hard time understanding how IWU managed to play Wash U to a five-point final margin two weeks ago. Sure, it's one game, and one game can be an outlier. But the Titans didn't look anything like a Top 25 team today.

And against Wash U the Titans looked like a Top 10 team, battling the Bears in a game where there was very little separation.

It happens.  Wheaton laid an egg last night vs Hope, then came out and played great vs Calvin.  Carthage lost to Calvin, then played great in beating Hope.  It's amazing how good a team can look when it's making shots, and how bad when it can't throw it in the ocean.

So the reality it that the Titans are somewhere between very good (as they were vs Wash U) and terrible (which they were today).

That's basically what I had figured out by the time I left the gym. I was very careful not to draw any sweeping conclusions about the Titans as a whole in my post. I have to point out again, though, that what was glaring about this game was as much the lack of good defense by the Titans as was their inability to knock down treys. Shooting comes and goes for every team, but defense (or the lack thereof) tends to be much more of a constant.

[Titan Q]

Remember though Greg, you saw IWU play a team that presents tremendous matchup problems to the Titans on the defensive end.  As currently constructed, IWU struggles to guard 4's and 5's who can step out and shoot the 3.  Whatever combination of low-post players IWU has in there (Sexauer, O'Callaghan, Connolly, Reed, Lawson, etc), the Titans just aren't equipped very well to go out and get a big guy who can shoot.  Manchester presented similar problems earlier in the week.

Against a team like Wash U - with an immobile 5 in Zach Kelley, and a 4 (Cam Smith) who doesn't shoot much - things look a lot different on the defensive end in general.  IWU can actually guard a team like Augustana and Wheaton a lot better than it can a North Central or Elmhurst right now.

John Koschnitzky, at 6-6 and extremely athletic and quick, was the guy IWU could put on a big guy who steps out.  Right now, the Titans don't have that.  (IWU may need to take a look at 6-5 forward Dan Schouten at some point.)  A team like Chicago is perfectly equipped to exploit what IWU can't cover right now...others are not.

Keep in mind that a team looks very different defensively depending on the matchups.

[Gregory Sager]

That's a good point. What you say about matchup variables is quite true, although the fact that Chicago's big men can shoot from outside wasn't the only problem IWU had on the defensive end of the floor this afternoon.

[CCIWFAN3]

Carthage, Wheaton, and IWU need one ingredient that I've observed so far this year.  That's not saying those 3 teams won't get in at some point this season, but right now it's lacking...mental toughness.  If the shots are falling , then find a way on the defensive end.  Compete...every night.  All three teams need a cow bell guy (city guys that means a go to leader), and I haven't seen it even with Steve.  All 3 of those losses should not have happened. 

But it's early.  Sometimes these types of losses can regenerate that ingredient.

[WUPHF]

Against a team like Wash U - with an immobile 5 in Zach Kelley, and a 4 (Cam Smith) who doesn't shoot much - things look a lot different on the defensive end in general.  

Titan Q: for what its worth, I think Illinois-Wesleyan will experience a different WUSTL offense should they play again in the tournament.  Cameron Smith, for example, shot 5-10 including 4-4 from three-point land tonight and mostly in the first half when Pomona was playing its best.

There were several comparisons of the loss to Chicago with the loss to WashU.  Anything can happen on any given night, of course, but I would suggest that the loss tonight says a little more about where the Titans are as a team than the home loss against a WashU playing only its third game of the season.

The season is young and we have a long way to go.

[CCIWFAN3]

TO: WUH.  IWU had trouble with Chicagp because Chicago has really strong perimeter defenders. IWU has trouble getting to the rim.  I said early on  the best CCIW team will be the most athletic. IWU doesn't have a slasher and it doesn't look like Wheaton does either.  Carthage is probably the best in that category.  When Lou Henson recruited guards hey had to do 2 things: 1)shoot; and 2)beat their man off the dribble.  Just not happy with CCIW's showing this weekend.

[Titan Q]

Adding to a post sac made Friday on the MIAA board...

6-year history of MIAA/CCIW Challenge

This is the first time the host conference did not win the series:

05 @Wheaton CCIW 3-1
06 @Hope MIAA 4-0
07 @Carthage CCIW 4-0
08 @Calvin MIAA 3-1
09 @Wheaton CCIW 4-0
10 @Hope (tie) 2-2

The host school has gone 10-2 (Hope's loss to Carthage was just the 2nd by a host)

Overall records:

Wheaton 8-4
Carthage 6-6
Hope 5-7
Calvin 5-7

CCIW 14-10
MIAA 10-14

Individual matchups:

Carthage vs Calvin: Calvin 4-2
Wheaton vs Calvin: Wheaton 5-1
Carthage vs Hope: Carthage 4-2
Wheaton vs Hope: tie 3-3


(Coming away from Holland 2-2 should be considered a pretty good showing from a CCIW standpoint, based on the history of this tournament.)

[Titan Q]

I said early on  the best CCIW team will be the most athletic.

Before I know if I agree or disagree, let me ask what your definition of "athletic" is.

Is Wash U's Aaron Thompson "athletic"?  Sean Wallis?  Wheaton's Ben Panner?  Kent Raymond?  

Below is a post I made last year on this topic on the UAA board...

That is a good question, because I think the word "athletic" gets used in different contexts quite a bit in basketball conversations.  When I use that term as it applies to a basketball player, I am referring to some combination of:

* "Basketball coordination" (not sure how else to say that)
* Leaping ability (not just pure vertical leaping, but how a player uses his ability to jump effectively)
* Ability to move effectively on the court, relative to position played (not using the words "speed" or "quickness", because that is not what I mean)


Believe me, I am right with you when you say, "I have seen lots of basketball players who might not be described as 'athletic' but who still can accomplish a lot on the court and are better than players who appear more athletic."  I watched Dennie Bridges-coached IWU teams win CCIW titles, and a national title, with kids who played "below the rim", but were just simply great basketball players.  Sometimes I'll hear people refer to a lot of those former Bridges players as "unathletic" and will strongly disagree.  Most people use the word "athletic" to primarily refer to leaping ability, and I do not.  Again, I think athleticism also has to do with what I called "basketball coordination" (for lack of a better term) and how well a player moves on the floor.  Was Troy Ruths a great leaper?  No.  Was he "athletic"?  Absolutely.

To me, guys like Aaron Thompson, Sean Wallis, Ben Panner, Kent Raymond, and Korey Coon are "athletic"...but it depends on how you define the term.

[Titan Q]

One thing that totally mystifies me: Connolly played 11 minutes, had 7 pts and 3 rbs.  O'Callaghan played 25 minutes, had 4 pts and 4 rbs.  This is not the first time Ryan has had better stats in far fewer minutes - what's going on?  Is Connolly not in shape to play more?  Does Ed bring something to the game that doesn't register on the stat sheet?

Connolly can't run the floor at all, Chuck, even when he's fresh. He chugs up the floor a good twenty feet behind Rosenkrantz or Dwyer after every IWU defensive rebound. And in terms of his work down in the blocks, he'll give you two good minutes or so before he's so gassed that he becomes a liability.

The bigger limitation is on the defensive end.  As with any 6-9/275 player who lands in Division III, Connolly just isn't real mobile.  He can only guard another relatively immobile 5.  Many good D3 teams, though, feature 6-5 or 6-6 low-post players who aren't real good with their back to the basket, but who can step out and shoot the 3 and/or an 18 footer.  Connolly can't guard that guy (there was no good matchup for him vs Chicago, for example).

Ryan Connolly is a very nice weapon for IWU off the bench for a few minutes at a time.  There have been several games so far where he could match up well with an opposing post, and there will be several more as the season goes on.  He is a load down on the blocks when he gets it.  There will also be other games where he just will not have a matchup.

In addition to the Koschnitzky injury, which has really hurt IWU in many ways on both ends of the floor, the other biggie is 6-9 Eric McCullough.  Had McCullough been healthy last year and played a year of JV, then come into 2009-10 ready to go, I think by now he'd be IWU's starting 5.  And while not an All-American candidate, he'd be such a nice complement to Doug Sexauer.  Unfortunately, McCullough hasn't been healthy a single day as a student-athlete at IWU...and I don't expect him to be anytime soon.

[CCIWFAN3]

Athletic in terms of (Lou Henson's definition), being able to beat your gut off the dribble and get to the rim.  Some players can do it by a quick first step, others do it with ball handing, others do it with a combination of both.  But also when you get to the rim you have to be able to make a decision.   Thompson...at times.  Panner...no.   Wallis maybe not able to get to the rim but he is a "cow bell guy", and very poised down the stretch.  Raymond...no.   Steve D. can beat his guy off the dribble and he uses both ball handling and quickness.  Travis R. has the ability and skill to beat most guys offt the dribble.  Chicago has great perimeter defense.  Also some of the best post defense comes from the perimeter defensive pressure.   I don't know if I answered u Titan, I might have rambled a little:)

[Gregory Sager]

Ryan Connolly is a very nice weapon for IWU off the bench for a few minutes at a time.  There have been several games so far where he could match up well with an opposing post, and there will be several more as the season goes on.  He is a load down on the blocks when he gets it.  There will also be other games where he just will not have a matchup.

If nothing else, having someone on the floor that big who can walk and chew gum at the same time -- and Connolly's not just a space-eater, he has nice touch around the basket -- makes teams focus upon him and frees up Sexauer a bit. But, boy, Rose really has to monitor Connolly on the floor, because he tires so quickly.

[CCIWFAN3]

B.C. has the best hands in CCIW for a post also.  Shouldn't have to monitor his playing time by this point in his career.  He's had 1 1/2 years to get in shape.  He should be playing 20 minutes a game, which would make the difference in a lot to games.