MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CCIWFAN3]

Exactly....it benefited the coach.  I guarantee IWU would not play a regular season game with Gonzaga, and most other CCIW schools as well.  Sharpening skills is done in the off season.  IWU plays against ISU many times in the summer.  Many DIII school go over seas and play pro teams.  But there is no benefit individually or collectively for the the players and team to play a DI school like Gonzaga in a regular season game. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Exactly....it benefited the coach.  I guarantee IWU would not play a regular season game with Gonzaga, and most other CCIW schools as well.  Sharpening skills is done in the off season.  IWU plays against ISU many times in the summer.  Many DIII school go over seas and play pro teams.  But there is no benefit individually or collectively for the the players and team to play a DI school like Gonzaga in a regular season game. 

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you.  Dennie Bridges used to quite regularly play a d1 team every year or two (paid for trips to nice locales that helped recruiting AND rewarded the kids), and they BEAT Arizona one year.  And guess who is still AD?!

[CCIWFAN3]

OK listen to WJBC's interview this morning with Ron Rose. And yes, when Dennie coached those games counted! Now they don't mean anything, so why waste a game during the season, unless u want the media to know your connection.

[dansand]

Exactly....it benefited the coach.  I guarantee IWU would not play a regular season game with Gonzaga, and most other CCIW schools as well.  Sharpening skills is done in the off season.  IWU plays against ISU many times in the summer.  Many DIII school go over seas and play pro teams.  But there is no benefit individually or collectively for the the players and team to play a DI school like Gonzaga in a regular season game.  

Nobody goes overseas to play more than Augie. Every four-year player under Coach G has had the chance to experience an international trip. His teams have been to France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Ireland and China. The guarantee from this game helps pay for next summer's return trip to Asia. Are you honestly attempting to make the argument that there's "no benefit individually or collectively" for a college kid (and his teammates) to get to travel to and play in China and take part in all the cultural experiences that go with it?

[Gregory Sager]

Exactly....it benefited the coach.  I guarantee IWU would not play a regular season game with Gonzaga, and most other CCIW schools as well.  Sharpening skills is done in the off season.  IWU plays against ISU many times in the summer.  Many DIII school go over seas and play pro teams.  But there is no benefit individually or collectively for the the players and team to play a DI school like Gonzaga in a regular season game. 

You're dead wrong on all counts, FAN3.

First, as regards Illinois Wesleyan: As Chuck pointed out, IWU was the school that, more than any other CCIW school, sought out regular-season D1 opponents back when it was still commonplace for D1 schools to schedule D3 opponents (the pre-RPI era). This policy was fostered by the current coach's boss and mentor, IWU athletic director Dennis Bridges. I don't know Ron Rose personally, but I'd be shocked if he turned down the chance to fly his team to Spokane to play Gonzaga. I'll go beyond that -- I'd be shocked if any D3 head coach turned down the chance to fly his team to Spokane to play Gonzaga.

(Well, Jim Hayford at Whitworth might politely point out to Mark Few that it isn't necessary for Whitworth to fly six and a half miles across town to Gonzaga. )

Those games against D1 teams never counted towards the D3 team's won-loss record in terms of how at-large tournament berths were disbursed back in the day. I can remember asking more than one coach back in the '80s if a D3 team would be penalized by the selection committee for a loss to a D1 team, and the answer was always "no." For example, in 1986-87 Illinois Wesleyan finished the regular season in second place in the CCIW behind North Park. The Titans sported a modest 17-9 overall record that included losses to Mississippi State, Northwestern, and Southern Mississippi. And yet the Titans were given an at-large berth in the tourney, proving that those D1 losses didn't matter.

Second, if in fact that AC @ Gonzaga game somehow benefited Grey Giovanine on a personal level -- I'm not convinced that it does -- it does not preclude the fact that it benefited both Augustana College and the Augustana men's basketball program as well. Grey Giovanine is paid to win basketball games, and to bolster Augustana's men's basketball program as much as is compatible with the first directive, and this game did that in the five ways that I mentioned (the winning-games part didn't come Wednesday night, it theoretically comes down the road).

Third, sharpening skills is not something that's done in the off-season. It's done every day of the year, and that includes practices and games. You get better by facing players that are better than you, and that's a big part of what D3 vs. D1 is all about from the D3 player's point of view.

Fourth, IWU's off-season games against Illinois State are not relevant to this discussion, other than as reinforcement for my third point above.

Fifth, I have already stated five reasons why this game benefited Augustana. Collectively, it makes the team better. Individually, it sharpens the skills of Augie's players. And from a recruiting standpoint -- always vital to any discussion of a program's health -- it helps Augustana. Grey Giovanine and his assistants have been able to tell prospects out on the recruiting trail ever since this game was scheduled, "We're flying to Spokane this year to play Gonzaga." The fact that it's a one-off thing may not register with the kids or their parents; what they'll hear is that Augie has the pull to play a game against the big boys under the klieg lights of a big TV audience, and it'll impress the heck out of them.

Sixth, never underestimate the importance of the gate guarantee that the NCAA requires a D1 school to pay out to a visiting D2 or D3 opponent. Gonzaga recorded an attendance of 6,000 on Wednesday night, and tickets to Zags games cost $25 apiece. For a member school of D3, where athletics department budgets are usually run on a shoestring, a chunk of that kind of gate means a pretty significant infusion of money. As Dan indicates, next year's Augie overseas trip will be paid for with the Gonzaga guarantee. Several extra weeks of practices and games next summer ... the chance to travel overseas and see other countries as a part of the Augie basketball team ... are you telling me that these are not benefits from having played Gonzaga?

I'm baffled as to why you can't see what a perq this is for Augustana. Other CCIW head coaches would give their eyeteeth for that opportunity.

[Titan Q]

I'm baffled as to why you can't see what a perq this is for Augustana. Other CCIW head coaches would give their eyeteeth for that opportunity.

I am equally as baffled.

[Titan Q]

Now they don't mean anything, so why waste a game during the season, unless u want the media to know your connection.

The game Augie dropped from the 2009-10 schedule to play Gonzaga was St. Ambrose.  As far as the NCAA Division III tournament goes, a game vs NAIA St. Ambrose is same as one vs NCAA DI Gonzaga...neither counts.  In other words, Augustana didn't "waste a game" at all.

[AndOne]

Exactly....it benefited the coach.  I guarantee IWU would not play a regular season game with Gonzaga, and most other CCIW schools as well.  Sharpening skills is done in the off season.  IWU plays against ISU many times in the summer.  Many DIII school go over seas and play pro teams.  But there is no benefit individually or collectively for the the players and team to play a DI school like Gonzaga in a regular season game. 

You're dead wrong on all counts, FAN3.

Sixth, never underestimate the importance of the gate guarantee that the NCAA requires a D1 school to pay out to a visiting D2 or D3 opponent. Gonzaga recorded an attendance of 6,000 on Wednesday night, and tickets to Zags games cost $25 apiece. For a member school of D3, where athletics department budgets are usually run on a shoestring, a chunk of that kind of gate means a pretty significant infusion of money. As Dan indicates, next year's Augie overseas trip will be paid for with the Gonzaga guarantee. Several extra weeks of practices and games next summer ... the chance to travel overseas and see other countries as a part of the Augie basketball team ... are you telling me that these are not benefits from having played Gonzaga?

I'm baffled as to why you can't see what a perq this is for Augustana. Other CCIW head coaches would give their eyeteeth for that opportunity.

2 or 3 years ago, NIU paid Aurora, I believe, $3,000 to come out to DeKalb and play. And, I think that was just a scrimmage!

[CCIWFAN3]

Whatever...get a room guys

[mr_b]

Whatever...get a room guys

Um, I think they have a room already... this one.

[petemcb]

Whatever...get a room guys

I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I choose to accept this as a late-arriving, brief, indirect, perhaps even latent, yet unmistakable concession speech.  All in?

[CCIWFAN3]

not quite Pete.  You guys think that Coach Rose and Dennie would schedule a game against a DI school if they could.?!?!You don't think Rose has Homer and Bryce Drew's , Bruce Weber's, Jankovich and Judson's, cell numbers.  He could schedule Valpo, U of I, ISU and many more if he wanted to. But it wouldn't be in the best interest of his team, and he puts the team b4 building his own resume.  Why are we even bringing up D1 schools...I thought that was off limits.  Need to get out of this bubble.  If the highlight of this month is Augie getting embarrassed by a D1, then ...wow!  Heck I even have Janks, Judson's and Wayne's numbers....what do you think Rose has?!?!? Really need to out out more guys.   

[Titan Q]

Why are we even bringing up D1 schools... 

Uhhhhh....cuz you did.

Does anyone know exactly why Augie played Gonzaga?  Road Trip money?  I really don't know what else they would gain from doing it.  It doesn't count in RPI.  I don't get it.  Publicity?  Close to finals even?

[Titan Q]

not quite Pete.  You guys think that Coach Rose and Dennie would schedule a game against a DI school if they could.?!?!You don't think Rose has Homer and Bryce Drew's , Bruce Weber's, Jankovich and Judson's, cell numbers.  He could schedule Valpo, U of I, ISU and many more if he wanted to. But it wouldn't be in the best interest of his team, and he puts the team b4 building his own resume.    

1) I know Ron Rose very well, and I talk to Ron Rose regularly, and I can tell you in a heartbeat he would jump at the chance to play a Division I team.

2) We don't have to speculate about Dennie Bridges playing D1 teams, because for most of his 37 seasons as head coach, he played one or more D1 teams.

http://www.iwu.edu/menssports/basketball/mbbrec07.shtml

3) If you think Ron Rose could currently schedule Valparaiso, Illinois, or Illinois State, you're out of touch with reality on this issue.  Gonzaga playing Augie was a fluke – a date opened up late, Gonzaga couldn't find another D1, and there was a relationship between the coaching staffs.  Can you find an example of a D1 major or mid-major playing a D3 this season? DI's interested in making the tournament generally won't play D3's.

4) I think it is preposterous to continue suggesting that Grey Giovanine played Gonzaga for his own good.

[Titan Q]

The Titans (5-2) take on the Highlanders of MacMurray (1-7) tonight at the Shirk Center.  MacMurray's 2009-10 slate...

at Wash U - L, 88-53    
at Arkansas St. - L, 93-47    
vs Benedictine - L, 73-58    
at Augustana - L, 85-65    
at Ill.-Springfield - L, 115-60    
at Hanover - L, 80-65    
vs Eureka - 86-71    
vs Webster - W, 71-62  

Probable starters:

G – CJ McClellan (6-4 Jr.) – 10.8 ppg, 4.4 rpg
G – Jerel Robertson (6-3 Jr.) – 11.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg
F – Brady Slagle (6-5 Fr.) – 9.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg
F – Ryan Sichting (6-6 Sr.) – 7.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg
F – Marc Randle (6-8 Sr.) – 7.1 ppg, 7.0 rpg

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/article_ca3bb8b2-e6b8-11de-9804-001cc4c002e0.html