MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[pgkevin]

I certainly didn't mean to diminish Robertson's season or career, Mr Ypsi.
I just am not overly impressed by Jason Kidd getting 10 pts, 13 assists and 11 rebounds in 39:00.

Including the fact that the shot clock is 24 seconds.  If each possesion takes up every second of the shot clock (which we know it doesn't, but for averages sake) NBA players get almost double the opportunity for statistics to lead towards triple doubles.

120 possesions for 48 minutes.
68 possesions for 40 minutes.

[Titan Q]

IWU has an interesting matchup tomorrow evening vs Illinois College in Jacksonville. The Blueboys are 6-1, with their only loss being in overtime @ North Central.  IC defeated D1 SIU-Edwardsville in exhibition play on November 7.

Illinois College is averaging 84.4 points per game on the season.  It looks like just about everybody in the rotation shoots the 3...

G – Clayton Hatfill (5-11 So.) – 1.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.7 apg (1-6 3-pt, .167)
G – Jacob Tucker (5-11 Jr.) – 19.4 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.1 apg (11-28 3-pt, .393)
F – Devin Gilman (6-3 So.) – 6.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg (6-12 3-pt, .500)
F – Craig Bals (6-4 So.) – 17.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg (15-28 3-pt, .536)
F – David Stewart (6-5 Sr.) – 18.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg (10-24 3-pt, .417)

G - Nathan Koehler (5-11 Fr.) – 11.4 ppg, 1.3 rpg (12-30 3-pt, .400)


Very constrasting styles.  The Titans will be trying to pound the ball inside to their big guys, and on the other end, the Blueboys will be making IWU's bigs chase them around the perimeter.  As everyone knows, teams with frontcourt players who step out and shoot the 3 well give the Titans a lot of problems defensively.

The Titans have not played well lately...this one should be interesting.

[Gregory Sager]

It might be a worthwhile study to go back over Grinnell box scores to see how often opponents register triple-doubles against the Pioneers. Alas, I don't have the time for that now -- I have two pick'em contests to run!

I only went through games of THIS year.  MANY players have had a double-double, but only one other had a triple: Kris Miller (of William Penn, of all teams ) went 11-11-11 (pts., rbs, and assists).

I saw the same thing. I also went through all of 08-09 and all of 07-08; there were no triple doubles. In fact only 3 times was anyone close, all in 08-09. Wheaton's McCrary was 3 assists away from it last year, Lake Forest had a player that was 1 assist away and MSOE had a player that was 2 assists from achieving it.

Lake Forest player was Patrick Hanley I believe.  The last player in the MWC to record a triple double against the system in conference play was Blaise Rogers of Monmouth in either '06 or '07.  So it really does not happen as often as you think.  Too often, the players that are getting the rebounds and the points do not have an opportunity for assists, and vice versa those handling the ball and making the passes do not have a lot of opportunity for rebounds and scoring.

Blaise Rogers of Monmouth triple-doubled against Grinnell in the 06-07 season. The Scots have had a nice run of triple-doubles in this decade against the Pioneers, as Travis Miller of Monmouth got one in 03-04 and another in 04-05. Andrew Jenkins of Colby also triple-doubled against Grinnell in 03-04. That's as far back as Grinnell's stats go.

So that's six opponent triple-doubles over the past six and a half years of Grinnell basketball. Which leads me back to my original point: Tim McCrary had an outstanding game the other night against the Pioneers, but it was not an epoch-shattering event. Allowances have to be made for the peculiar style of play of Wheaton's opponent.

(Combing through Grinnell box scores is almost as much of a journey into Bizarro World as is watching an actual Grinnell game.)

[Titan Q]

It appears Illinois College's 5-11 guard Jacob Tucker can dunk...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO6dOFtPg6M


By the way, IC's facility - the Bruner Center (where that video was shot) - is very nice.

[John Gleich]

While I almost never attend men's games, I do try to catch a Grinnell game once every couple of years and did so Saturday.
First of all, I give credit to Wheaton for scheduling Grinnell; I understand that many teams won't, afraid that playing a wide-open game will screw up their players' mentality or afraid that they'll get drilled into the floor (if they're a lousy passing/dribbling team).
Wheaton definitely can pass and dribble the ball very well and thrived in the fast tempo.
McCrary had a superb game, displaying fine athleticism. When he wasn't at the front end of a fast break, he was grabbing defensive rebounds (16 of 'em), thwarting the 2nd chances that Grinnell typically relies on. His teammates also put out great physical effort and maintained the constant concentration required when facing Grinnell.

I've heard (on the boards at least) the argument that teams won't play Grinnell because it will wear out their players and there's been some discussion about "the Grinnell affect."  I don't think we have enough data... but what about the D-I effect?  In a game where they get drilled by a superior opponent, they have to expend lots more energy to a lesser end, and their emotions are likely pretty high too.  And then they're playing a "regular" opponent with dead legs, what has to feel like zero energy...  Is there an extra let down?

That may be the drawback to playing D-I (if it exists).  Thoughts?

[bigz61550]

True.  But to AVERAGE a triple-double (and solidly in each category, not 'just barely'), even in 48 minutes, is insane.  To me, that is the most impressive season anyone ever had in the sport of basketball.

I've been a huge 'Big O' fan ever since since seeing him (several times) at Robertson Memorial Fieldhouse; U. Cinci was then in the Mo. Valley Conference, and I was a HUGE fan of hometown Bradley U.

[Edit: I've forgotten who the 'Robertson' was (and the Fieldhouse no longer exists), but despite what perhaps ought to be, it was NOT named for Oscar! ]

As a new follower of this board, I am mostly reading and enjoying the posts, but have lived in Peoria since 1972 and Robertson field house was named after A. J. Robertson who was Bradley athletic director in the 40's.  New building is still being built where field hose was located.  The big thing was a raised floor much like some of the University Minnesota home games.

I did not see Oscar Robertson play there, but saw Bradley do a good job on Larry Bird when he employed  a defense of 4 players going man to man on him at once and one player standing the lane to guard the other four.

[Mugsy]

While I almost never attend men's games, I do try to catch a Grinnell game once every couple of years and did so Saturday.
First of all, I give credit to Wheaton for scheduling Grinnell; I understand that many teams won't, afraid that playing a wide-open game will screw up their players' mentality or afraid that they'll get drilled into the floor (if they're a lousy passing/dribbling team).
Wheaton definitely can pass and dribble the ball very well and thrived in the fast tempo.
McCrary had a superb game, displaying fine athleticism. When he wasn't at the front end of a fast break, he was grabbing defensive rebounds (16 of 'em), thwarting the 2nd chances that Grinnell typically relies on. His teammates also put out great physical effort and maintained the constant concentration required when facing Grinnell.

I've heard (on the boards at least) the argument that teams won't play Grinnell because it will wear out their players and there's been some discussion about "the Grinnell affect."  I don't think we have enough data... but what about the D-I effect?  In a game where they get drilled by a superior opponent, they have to expend lots more energy to a lesser end, and their emotions are likely pretty high too.  And then they're playing a "regular" opponent with dead legs, what has to feel like zero energy...  Is there an extra let down?

That may be the drawback to playing D-I (if it exists).  Thoughts?

Kinda why I have Chicago "upsetting" Augie in the CCIW pick-ems this week.   I specified "upset" because thus far I'm the only one wondering the same thing you propose.

[WUPHF]

Kinda why I have Chicago "upsetting" Augie in the CCIW pick-ems this week.   I specified "upset" because thus far I'm the only one wondering the same thing you propose.

You are not the only ones.  I had said something similar last week.  I am sure others agree.  I was surprised how good Augustana looked in the game on Saturday, all things considered.

[Mr. Ypsi]

True.  But to AVERAGE a triple-double (and solidly in each category, not 'just barely'), even in 48 minutes, is insane.  To me, that is the most impressive season anyone ever had in the sport of basketball.

I've been a huge 'Big O' fan ever since since seeing him (several times) at Robertson Memorial Fieldhouse; U. Cinci was then in the Mo. Valley Conference, and I was a HUGE fan of hometown Bradley U.

[Edit: I've forgotten who the 'Robertson' was (and the Fieldhouse no longer exists), but despite what perhaps ought to be, it was NOT named for Oscar! ]

As a new follower of this board, I am mostly reading and enjoying the posts, but have lived in Peoria since 1972 and Robertson field house was named after A. J. Robertson who was Bradley athletic director in the 40's.  New building is still being built where field hose was located.  The big thing was a raised floor much like some of the University Minnesota home games.

I did not see Oscar Robertson play there, but saw Bradley do a good job on Larry Bird when he employed  a defense of 4 players going man to man on him at once and one player standing the lane to guard the other four.

Thanks for the memories, and +k - hope you'll stick around!

I left Peoria in 1970, though I still come back at least twice a year (my parents are still there, having celebrated their 68th wedding anniversary last August ).  Good thing I know the general layout of the city, 'cause I sure would be lost if I went by 'landmarks'!  (Yet all the neighborhoods are exactly as I remembered them!)

I was gone before Bird played; but did see Wes Unseld (Louisville was also MVC back in the day).

[Hoosier Titan]

I've heard (on the boards at least) the argument that teams won't play Grinnell because it will wear out their players and there's been some discussion about "the Grinnell affect."  I don't think we have enough data... but what about the D-I effect?  In a game where they get drilled by a superior opponent, they have to expend lots more energy to a lesser end, and their emotions are likely pretty high too.  And then they're playing a "regular" opponent with dead legs, what has to feel like zero energy...  Is there an extra let down?

That may be the drawback to playing D-I (if it exists).  Thoughts?

I wondered about the timing of the Augie-Gonzaga game, although you've articulated my concerns better than I did.  A few years ago, when IWU played Illinois, it was very early in the season--perhaps the first game as an exhibition.  That makes more sense to me than a mid-season game like this, when players are already tired from several weeks of games, the end of the term or semester is upon them, and they're heading into conference play.  It seems that it would be draining in every respect.

[BlueJay21]

IWU has an interesting matchup tomorrow evening vs Illinois College in Jacksonville. The Blueboys are 6-1, with their only loss being in overtime @ North Central.  IC defeated D1 SIU-Edwardsville in exhibition play on November 7.

Illinois College is averaging 84.4 points per game on the season.  It looks like just about everybody in the rotation shoots the 3...

G – Clayton Hatfill (5-11 So.) – 1.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.7 apg (1-6 3-pt, .167)
G – Jacob Tucker (5-11 Jr.) – 19.4 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.1 apg (11-28 3-pt, .393)
F – Devin Gilman (6-3 So.) – 6.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg (6-12 3-pt, .500)
F – Craig Bals (6-4 So.) – 17.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg (15-28 3-pt, .536)
F – David Stewart (6-5 Sr.) – 18.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg (10-24 3-pt, .417)

G - Nathan Koehler (5-11 Fr.) – 11.4 ppg, 1.3 rpg (12-30 3-pt, .400)


Very constrasting styles.  The Titans will be trying to pound the ball inside to their big guys, and on the other end, the Blueboys will be making IWU's bigs chase them around the perimeter.  As everyone knows, teams with frontcourt players who step out and shoot the 3 well give the Titans a lot of problems defensively.

The Titans have not played well lately...this one should be interesting.

I had a chance to watch the Blueboys play in their last game vs. Monmouth. The final score was 89-88 and featured over 30 made three point shots. Illinois College played zone the entire game and just dared the Scots to shoot. If they do this against the Titans tomorrow night then Zimmer and Johnson both might score 30. The Blueboys are playing very well this year, and there is a lot of excitement around that program. The Titans will just have way too much depth for the Blueboys. I think it could be a good game, but my gut tells me if the Titans are good enough to win the CCIW then they should win this game by 15 or more.

[BlueJay21]

It appears Illinois College's 5-11 guard Jacob Tucker can dunk...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO6dOFtPg6M


By the way, IC's facility - the Bruner Center (where that video was shot) - is very nice.

Tucker can throw down some amazing dunks. He dunked twice against Monmouth and one he caught a lob on a fast break and dunked over a guy for a 3 point play. They throw the ball up to him a lot. There is a good chance a Titan player may end up on a poster tomorrow night.

[AndOne]

IWU has an interesting matchup tomorrow evening vs Illinois College in Jacksonville. The Blueboys are 6-1, with their only loss being in overtime @ North Central.  IC defeated D1 SIU-Edwardsville in exhibition play on November 7.

Illinois College is averaging 84.4 points per game on the season.  It looks like just about everybody in the rotation shoots the 3...

G – Clayton Hatfill (5-11 So.) – 1.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.7 apg (1-6 3-pt, .167)
G – Jacob Tucker (5-11 Jr.) – 19.4 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.1 apg (11-28 3-pt, .393)
F – Devin Gilman (6-3 So.) – 6.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg (6-12 3-pt, .500)
F – Craig Bals (6-4 So.) – 17.4 ppg, 7.0 rpg (15-28 3-pt, .536)
F – David Stewart (6-5 Sr.) – 18.4 ppg, 7.4 rpg (10-24 3-pt, .417)

G - Nathan Koehler (5-11 Fr.) – 11.4 ppg, 1.3 rpg (12-30 3-pt, .400)


Very constrasting styles.  The Titans will be trying to pound the ball inside to their big guys, and on the other end, the Blueboys will be making IWU's bigs chase them around the perimeter.  As everyone knows, teams with frontcourt players who step out and shoot the 3 well give the Titans a lot of problems defensively.

The Titans have not played well lately...this one should be interesting.

I had a chance to watch the Blueboys play in their last game vs. Monmouth. The final score was 89-88 and featured over 30 made three point shots. Illinois College played zone the entire game and just dared the Scots to shoot. If they do this against the Titans tomorrow night then Zimmer and Johnson both might score 30. The Blueboys are playing very well this year, and there is a lot of excitement around that program. The Titans will just have way too much depth for the Blueboys. I think it could be a good game, but my gut tells me if the Titans are good enough to win the CCIW then they should win this game by 15 or more.

*Illinois College is stronger inside than u might think. Their 2 big forwards are tough, and average almost 36 points, almost evenly split between them.
*They do not shoot the 3 particularly well, but they do defend against it pretty well.
*Tucker is much more athletic than Johnson and especially Rosenkranz. He can abuse them by taking them inside.
*Defensively, look for number 43 to come in off the bench to lean on Sexauer. Can Doug drop step and go left as he loves to?
*I'm thinking Ron Rose may want to employ The Student Body a bit more against IC
I think Connolly at the 5 and Sexauer at the 4 could be an effective combo against the Blue Boys. This combo will also force IC to sag inside more and provide Johnson and Zimmer more room to launch from 3 point land.
* IC is actually better when they take starter Hatfeld out and put in Kohler.
*IWU needs to hit some threes, and win the rebounding battle as they should. I think it will be hard for them to be victorious if they don't do both.

[CCIWchamps]

I certainly didn't mean to diminish Robertson's season or career, Mr Ypsi.
I just am not overly impressed by Jason Kidd getting 10 pts, 13 assists and 11 rebounds in 39:00.

I agree.  And McCrary's numbers were large enough to be that much more impressive.

[Greek Tragedy]

It appears Illinois College's 5-11 guard Jacob Tucker can dunk...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO6dOFtPg6M

Speaking of dunks.  Dan Tillema, a little taller than Tucker, had a pretty nice dunk this past weekend when Stevens Point hosted Elmhurst. 

Dan Tillema's dunk made it to youtube.  Swampgoon gave me the news. 

We were sitting behind that basket, so it looked pretty awesome when it was coming right at you, but at this angle, it still doesn't look half bad!