MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

I see that we've entered into the annual "Gripe About Grey" segment of the season on CCIW Chat. (Of course, I say that as someone who has done his own fair share of complaining about Giovanine going Old Yeller on the sidelines.) It does get a bit old, so remember -- if you're going to grouse about the antics of the Augustana coach, be original about it.

[CCIWFAN3]

Actually Larry Shulte is my favorite. He's a classy assistant coach. Glad he doesn't act like Coach G.  Is that original enough for ya G.S.?

[Dennis_Prikkel]

I see that we've entered into the annual "Gripe About Grey" segment of the season on CCIW Chat. (Of course, I say that as someone who has done his own fair share of complaining about Giovanine going Old Yeller on the sidelines.) It does get a bit old, so remember -- if you're going to grouse about the antics of the Augustana coach, be original about it.

no griping from me, GS - just giving an assessment of what I saw - if he can change the tone of the officiating with his antics, more power to him - he certainly did change the officiating in the final eight minutes of the first half, when augie stepped up their defensive intensity but picked up only one foul.

I didnt see it in the play by play, but I believe his coat came off at the 7:57 mark.

[Gregory Sager]

This is shaping up as a VERY interesting year!  NPU wins their second in a row.  Millikin gets a transfer who puts in 21 to scare IWU in B'town.  Unless Elmhurst and/or NCC falls apart, this may be the season where it is really true that 'on any given night'.

I see no indication that North Central is going to fall apart, Chuck. In their first three games the Cards have entered the final minute of play down six, down one, and tied. They simply aren't closing out games, which is often the hallmark of a team with a strong starting five that just doesn't have any depth. I don't foresee anyone blowing out the Cards this year.

Elmhurst is another matter. After losing a tight one in the Griz to Millikin, the 'jays lost at home by 14 to Augie -- which is like losing by 20 or more to somebody else, given Augie's defensive proficiency -- in a game in which they trailed by double digits for the final fourteen minutes, and then folded completely against a Carthage team that's missing one of its best players, a Carthage team that was up by over 30 in the waning minutes. The 'jays are in real danger of having the season get away from them, although I'd never take them lightly if I was a CCIW head coach.

Actually Larry Shulte is my favorite. He's a classy assistant coach. Glad he doesn't act like Coach G.  Is that original enough for ya G.S.?

No. I need pictures, diagrams, and/or an essay detailing who would win a face-to-face verbal showdown of foam-at-the-mouth vituperation, Giovanine or R. Lee Ermey.

The margin was especially telling on the offensive end where the taller, bigger Vikings held a 16-9 advantage.

Bigger, but the height difference is negligible. Here's North Park's current frontcourt rotation:

Emmanuel Crosby	6'7	230
Nick Williams	6'5	210
Nick Hoekstra	6'5	225
Issa Avery	6'4	175

... and North Central's:

Brandon Stanciel	6'7	210
Derek Raridon	6'6	190
David Twyman	6'3	195
Brian Evans	6'3	190

Also, four of NPU's 16 offensive rebounds came from Vikings guards Shaun Collins, David Williams, and Ro Russell. Williams and Russell were two of the three sub-six-foot players on the court last night. NCC got no offensive rebounds from anybody besides Twyman (six) and Evans (three).

[markerickson]

AndOne said Williams and Crosby dominated down low, but NCC's website indicates "points in the paint" were 52 and 36 for NCC and NPU, respectfully.  Are paint points literally points scored in the painted region or by someone playing either a F or C position.  I ask because NP's F/C people scored 35, and no one scored one point.

Regarding the "outmanned" Cards, their subs played only 23 minutes, which I believed to be rather low.  A quick analysis of minutes revealed that in the five games prior to last night, NCC's subs averaged 42 minutes.  I'm sure there is a logical explanation, e.g., game flow or injury, for the disparity.  Thoughts, AndOne?

[Gregory Sager]

AndOne said Williams and Crosby dominated down low, but NCC's website indicates "points in the paint" were 52 and 36 for NCC and NPU, respectfully.  Are paint points literally points scored in the painted region or by someone playing either a F or C position.  I ask because NP's F/C people scored 35, and no one scored one point.

I'm not 100% sure, since I've never asked this question of any of NPU's live stats operators, but I think that the "points in the paint" category is reflective of what type of shot the operator keys into the PBP. If it's a layup or dunk, it's automatically routed into the "points in the paint" category. If it's a jumper, it's not. I'm pretty sure that that's how it works, but, as I said, I'm not 100% sure. I'll ask one of the NPU live stats operators about it on Saturday.

Since plenty of jumpers are attempted from within the lane, and there are layups and dunks that come out of the baseline and are thus not lane shots -- and since operators sometimes use their own discretion as to what is considered a layup and what is considered a jumper, as I've seen close-in floaters categorized either way -- the "points in the paint" category doesn't seem to be a particularly reliable indicator except in the most general of ways.

Regarding the "outmanned" Cards, their subs played only 23 minutes, which I believed to be rather low.  A quick analysis of minutes revealed that in the five games prior to last night, NCC's subs averaged 42 minutes.  I'm sure there is a logical explanation, e.g., game flow or injury, for the disparity.  Thoughts, AndOne?

He can answer this better than can I, of course, but by going back five games you're going back to the tail end of the Kyle Julius era at North Central. His last game was against Benedictine, five games prior to last night's, and as usual he was very prominent off the bench (21 minutes). This is how NCC's bench minutes total up in the post-Julius era:

date	opponent	bench min.
12/30	Rockford	34
1/2	Adrian	47
1/6	Illinois Wesleyan	40
1/9	Wheaton	34
1/13	North Park	23

I think that the big difference is that last night was the first time in those five games that NCC didn't have multiple starters in foul trouble by the end of the game.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

GS quote
"Giovanine or R. Lee Ermey"
unquote

how about that trainer babe from the "Biggest Loser" TV reality show.  She's as in-your-face as any basketball coach I've ever seen. 

[OurHouse]

^{Hey Q, why have Big Country's minutes the past two games been 6 and 7? Because of the matchups?  I haven't seen a game since the break. I assumed his minutes would be increasing slowly during conference play from the way he was playing earlier.}

Some players are playing alot of minutes with "ok" production compared to others with less playing time and better production - it would be interesting to see what would happen if those players increased their playing minutes..

..they would win games with a larger margin especailly against "just ok" teams. I would be worried about beating the real "good" teams, especially going into playoffs  ....SFC

MMW'ds

[AndOne]

The margin was especially telling on the offensive end where the taller, bigger Vikings held a 16-9 advantage.

Bigger, but the height difference is negligible. Here's North Park's current frontcourt rotation:

Emmanuel Crosby	6'7	230
Nick Williams	6'5	210
Nick Hoekstra	6'5	225
Issa Avery	6'4	175

... and North Central's:

Brandon Stanciel	6'7	210
Derek Raridon	6'6	190
David Twyman	6'3	195
Brian Evans	6'3	190

Also, four of NPU's 16 offensive rebounds came from Vikings guards Shaun Collins, David Williams, and Ro Russell. Williams and Russell were two of the three sub-six-foot players on the court last night. NCC got no offensive rebounds from anybody besides Twyman (six) and Evans (three).

"Bigger" for sure in terms of weight/bulk which is what I meant. AND taller as---

*Brandon Stanciel played 9 minutes.
*Derek Raridon may be 6'6" however, listing him as a frontcourt player is a misnomer as he can much more accurately be described as a wing, usually not positioned very closely to the rebounding battle zone.

The rebounds the Vikings "smalls" garnered were either long rebounds, or caroms that hit the floor that they beat their man to due to superior quickness.

Thus in the battle underneth, it was most often 6'3" Twyman & 6'3" Evans against 6'7" Crosby, 6'5" Williams, and 6'5" Hoekstra. Twyman & Evans did an admirable job. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

^{Hey Q, why have Big Country's minutes the past two games been 6 and 7? Because of the matchups?  I haven't seen a game since the break. I assumed his minutes would be increasing slowly during conference play from the way he was playing earlier.}

Some players are playing alot of minutes with "ok" production compared to others with less playing time and better production - it would be interesting to see what would happen if those players increased their playing minutes..

..they would win games with a larger margin especailly against "just ok" teams. I would be worried about beating the real "good" teams, especially going into playoffs  ....SFC

MMW'ds

Um ... you do realize, don't you, that IWU is all alone in first place?  Perhaps your trashing of Ron Rose's decision-making could wait for, you know, a loss!

[Gregory Sager]

The margin was especially telling on the offensive end where the taller, bigger Vikings held a 16-9 advantage.

Bigger, but the height difference is negligible. Here's North Park's current frontcourt rotation:

Emmanuel Crosby	6'7	230
Nick Williams	6'5	210
Nick Hoekstra	6'5	225
Issa Avery	6'4	175

... and North Central's:

Brandon Stanciel	6'7	210
Derek Raridon	6'6	190
David Twyman	6'3	195
Brian Evans	6'3	190

Also, four of NPU's 16 offensive rebounds came from Vikings guards Shaun Collins, David Williams, and Ro Russell. Williams and Russell were two of the three sub-six-foot players on the court last night. NCC got no offensive rebounds from anybody besides Twyman (six) and Evans (three).

"Bigger" for sure in terms of weight/bulk which is what I meant. AND taller as---

*Brandon Stanciel played 9 minutes.
*Derek Raridon may be 6'6" however, listing him as a frontcourt player is a misnomer as he can much more accurately be described as a wing, usually not positioned very closely to the rebounding battle zone.

The rebounds the Vikings "smalls" garnered were either long rebounds, or caroms that hit the floor that they beat their man to due to superior quickness.

Thus in the battle underneth, it was most often 6'3" Twyman & 6'3" Evans against 6'7" Crosby, 6'5" Williams, and 6'5" Hoekstra. Twyman & Evans did an admirable job. 

Agreed, but were they the ones who were usually guarding Crosby in the low post? And, just out of curiosity, why did Stanciel only get nine minutes of PT? On the face of it, it indicates to me that Todd Raridon was more worried about NPU's quickness and driving ability than about NPU's size.

[Drake Palmer]

I see that we've entered into the annual "Gripe About Grey" segment of the season on CCIW Chat. (Of course, I say that as someone who has done his own fair share of complaining about Giovanine going Old Yeller on the sidelines.) It does get a bit old, so remember -- if you're going to grouse about the antics of the Augustana coach, be original about it.

I was doing my typical 2-3 x week visit to the CCIW board when I noticed  - what North Park has now won two conference games?!? Gosh - well done Greg & other North Park faithful! 

We've had our share of excitement on the MIAC board with the possible return to league prominence by Gustavus Adolphus as they squeaked by league power, St. Thomas last night. So amidst the excitement on the board today, there's been a bit of talk about animated coaches, & their antics on the sidelines.

Greg, I might have to borrow your line & subsequent photo.  Clever!

[Gregory Sager]

I see that we've entered into the annual "Gripe About Grey" segment of the season on CCIW Chat. (Of course, I say that as someone who has done his own fair share of complaining about Giovanine going Old Yeller on the sidelines.) It does get a bit old, so remember -- if you're going to grouse about the antics of the Augustana coach, be original about it.

I was doing my typical 2-3 x week visit to the CCIW board when I noticed  - what North Park has now won two conference games?!? Gosh - well done Greg & other North Park faithful! 

I'm trying to find an excuse for a broadcaster to take credit for his team going on a winning streak, but thus far I can't think of one. I'll have to give it some more thought, DP.

[augiefan]

Las night was my first opportunity to see Augie in person this year. As suggested the team is very challenged on offense. As I commented in prior posts it is not just their perimeter shooting that is a problem. A worse problem continues to be horrible FT shooting. Wheaton played Augie tough on defense, and Augie got a lot of FTs as a result. I'm guessing Wheaton's scouting report had Augie figured out pretty completely, i.e. give Augie the outside looks and foul if necessary on the inside shots, as Augie will miss a lot of FTs. Worked perfectly. 62% FT shooting is not going to get it done against any good CCIW team, particularly on the road.

Most of the young Vikings are big guys. Coach Old Yeller had better bring in some decent SG's for next year or Augie's run as a CCIW contender will be in serious jeopardy. Pelton is the Vikings only solid guard, and he will be gone next year. Matt had a pretty poor game last night by his standards other than making all of his FTs, something his teammates seem unable to do. Still a loss to Wheaton on the road is to be expected, so last night's loss was not a disaster.

Saturday's game at home against Carthage is another story. Augie with a suspect offense has to win that one to prove they compete against one of the conference favorites. I realize we are only 3 games into conference play, but early indicators are that NPU and Millikin are both looking better than expected and appear to be legitimate contenders with Augie for the 4th CCIW tourney spot. So far Elmhurst and NCC appear to be in a bit of trouble competing with the other 6 teams.

[mr_b]

I see that we've entered into the annual "Gripe About Grey" segment of the season on CCIW Chat. (Of course, I say that as someone who has done his own fair share of complaining about Giovanine going Old Yeller on the sidelines.) It does get a bit old, so remember -- if you're going to grouse about the antics of the Augustana coach, be original about it.

I was doing my typical 2-3 x week visit to the CCIW board when I noticed  - what North Park has now won two conference games?!? Gosh - well done Greg & other North Park faithful!  

I'm trying to find an excuse for a broadcaster to take credit for his team going on a winning streak, but thus far I can't think of one. I'll have to give it some more thought, DP.

Perhaps it's an inverse relationship... the further you are from the court (i.e., perched on the top row of the bleachers doing the broadcasts), the better the team plays?  Just a thought, or is that a coincidence?