MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Carthage has no inside game except for StevieD penetrating and either dishing or shooting.

Does Carthage have a "true" big-man who sits on the block and plays with his back to the basket?  No, and even if they did, he'd be a fish out of water in the current offense.  That being said, Tyler Pierce is going to be the one getting the majority of looks after Steve leaves.

Pierce is averaging 12.8 pts per games this season.  Prior to the NP game, he had 4 games in a row with double digits in scoring.  And yes, some of those probably can on dishes from Steve, but it's still points in the paint, right?  Or do we take those points away from him because he didn't create them himself?

I think Pierce has plenty of potential, although he's going to have to learn how to score with his back to the basket. He's strong and moves well laterally, although like Guzman he suffered defensively against NPU because Emanuel Crosby shot right over him. That's actually my biggest criticism of NPU from Wednesday's game -- the Viking didn't work the ball in to Crosby enough, and aside from Nick Williams he was NPU's most favorable matchup at the offensive end of the floor. As I posted on Wednesday night, Crosby got far too few touches, and thus far too few shots off.

mwunder (and others)

If a team has a player or players that can receive the ball 5-15 feet from the hoop and can consistently get to the basket and finish, I think you can say they have an inside game. I don't think the definition of "inside game" should necessarily be confined only to a team that has someone who sets up low on the blocks with his back to the basket and takes one dribble to the hole.

Tyler Pierce was very effective "inside" when I saw him. However, he often set up near the foul line, took the pass, and bulled his way to the basket to finish the play.
Because of his ability to do this, I think Carthage has at least a bit of an "inside" game. Certainly more of a stronger influence inside than last year.

I agree with that, although I still think that Pierce is going to have to learn how to post up sooner or later. Right now he's the lucky recipient of a lot of interior passes from Steve D. brought about by the Carthage superstar breaking down defenses and drawing Pierce's man away -- and when he's a junior Pierce will find that it's not as easy to get those face-up baskets without an All-American point guard dishing him the rock.

It seems to me at all levels of college basketball, the number of teams with a pure "center" is much smaller than it was 10 and 20 years ago.  Most 4 & 5 players now are versatile types who like to face the basket more than they like to have their back to it, and like to shoot from the perimeter.

Look at the CCIW.  How many pure "centers" are there?  IWU's Doug Sexauer is a pure back-to-the-basket player this year (his first two years he was more of a 4).  He steps out and shoots the occassional 3 or 15 footer, but for the most part, he is an old school center (as is his sub, Ryan Connolly).  I believe North Park's Emmanuel Crosby is a back-to-the-basket player, right?  But who else?  I see Kyle Nelson as more 4 than 5...maybe others disagree.

Just seems like there are not many pure "centers" anymore.  

I agree with that as well, although both Crosby and the injured Phil Schniedermeier for NPU are pure centers who do all of their scoring from the low post in the traditional back-to-the-basket format. And Pierce isn't a jump shooter, from what I can tell. He scores all of his points right around the basket; he just does it without the traditional back-in-your-man maneuvering.

Given that the trey option was wide open so often, StevieD did not have to rely on his drive right with the left arm hook.  What bothers me is his incessant whining to the refs that he got fouled on any particular shot.  And why does he have to talk to the student section?  The coach's son had several great flops too, but there was no contact.  Casting the acting aside, he's truly a great player who nails his FTs.  I quibble because I'm jealous.

Wow!!  You must be REAL jealous to quibble that much.  So, to paraphrase, Steve commits offensive fouls on most of his drives, interacts with opposing crowds when he shouldn't, whines too much, flops often...BUT, he is a good actor and makes his free throws.

I wouldn't pay Mark much heed if I were you. After all, his favorite player is "Joe Gonzalez."  

[Gregory Sager]

On another subject, we've talked about the relative wealth of CCIW schools from time to time in this room. The 2009 version of the annual NACUBO endowment study has just been released (thanks to Ron Boerger over on the "Future of D3" board for the link to this data), and here's the endowment figures for the seven CCIW schools that reported:

school	2009 (in $1,000s)	2008 (in $1,000s)	% change
Wheaton	250,695	321,930	-27.1
Illinois Wesleyan	151,141	182,476	-17.2
Augustana	88,745	110,990	-20.5
Millikin	84,409	88,739	-4.9
North Central	70,462	78,598	-10.4
Elmhurst	70,101	97,938	-28.4
Carthage	33,693	43,499	-22.5

I know that Augustana SID Dave Wrath likes to track this stuff, although I don't know if he uses the NACUBO numbers or not.

North Park is not one of the institutions listed in the study. I know that NPU's endowment was approximately $60,000,000 back in 2008, and just like practically every school in the nation the Park took a big hit in its endowment portfolio last year. I'm not exactly sure how big a hit it took, though.

Incidentally, the median average for the endowments of American four-year colleges and universities in 2009 was $67,644,000. In 2008 it was $82,421,000, meaning that the average loss was about 17.9 percent, or slightly above what Illinois Wesleyan lost last year, percentage-wise.

[Titan Q]

school	2009 (in $1,000s)	2008 (in $1,000s)	% change
Wheaton	250,695	321,930	-27.1
Illinois Wesleyan	151,141	182,476	-17.2
Augustana	88,745	110,990	-20.5
Millikin	84,409	88,739	-4.9
North Central	70,462	78,598	-10.4
Elmhurst	70,101	97,938	-28.4
Carthage	33,693	43,499	-22.5

Are the Big Blue storing their money in a shoebox?

[Gregory Sager]

school	2009 (in $1,000s)	2008 (in $1,000s)	% change
Wheaton	250,695	321,930	-27.1
Illinois Wesleyan	151,141	182,476	-17.2
Augustana	88,745	110,990	-20.5
Millikin	84,409	88,739	-4.9
North Central	70,462	78,598	-10.4
Elmhurst	70,101	97,938	-28.4
Carthage	33,693	43,499	-22.5

Are the Big Blue storing their money in a shoebox?

Yep, and it's probably buried in a hole somewhere on campus. That's why we never hear from Joe Hakes anymore; he spends all his time hunting for the map with the big X on it.

[Mr. Ypsi]

school	2009 (in $1,000s)	2008 (in $1,000s)	% change
Wheaton	250,695	321,930	-27.1
Illinois Wesleyan	151,141	182,476	-17.2
Augustana	88,745	110,990	-20.5
Millikin	84,409	88,739	-4.9
North Central	70,462	78,598	-10.4
Elmhurst	70,101	97,938	-28.4
Carthage	33,693	43,499	-22.5

Are the Big Blue storing their money in a shoebox?

Perhaps they're invested in Manito corn?

[markerickson]

Don't be so defensive, Greg.  Are you telling me that Gonzalez does not belong on the varsity squad, playing quality minutes?  Rhetorical question.

I don't recall ever saying Gonzalez was my favorite Viking.  My favorite is Nick Williams as he attended the HS where my kids are currently schooled, and I noticed that you did not counter my recent statement that Russell ignores Williams. 

[Titan Q]

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/article_42c6f4f6-0d3b-11df-9495-001cc4c002e0.html

"This is our opportunity to control who wins the conference championship," said IWU coach Ron Rose. "It's always better to control your own destiny instead of having to hope others beat Carthage. That's the task ahead of us."
-----
"It's going to be a fight the second half for first place," said IWU point guard Travis Rosenkranz. "It's a tough place to play. They've got a great crowd, great players and a good system. If we come away with a win, that's a big win."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/a_tarble_tussle_for_the_top_spot_7240804.html

"I think it is," Carthage coach Bosko Djurickovic said when asked if it is the biggest home game for the Red Men in years. "We're playing very well right now and we're playing a team that's playing equally well.

"It's the two teams that are at the top of the league halfway through, so there is some importance to it, there's no doubt about it."
-----

The Red Men, who were missing starter Max Cary, shot only 40 percent from the floor, including 33 percent in the second half, as the Titans pulled away in the final 10 minutes.

"It was a combination (of things)," Djurickovic said. "It was our first game without Max (who returned after a five-game layoff on Wednesday at North Park). It was a poor shooting night and not a particularly well coaching night and a poor defensive night.

"We didn't play well, but you have to give them credit. Not only did they play well that night, but they're 15-3 for a reason. They're a very good basketball team. They're experienced and, offensively, we won't see anybody better all year long."
-----

Carthage nemesis Doug Sexauer (16.2 ppg., 6.0 rpg) has had his way with Carthage.

In the first meeting, the 6-foot-7 IWU junior scored a game-high 24 points on 10-of-11 shooting and grabbed seven rebounds. In two games against Carthage last season, he had 37 points and 18 rebounds.

"He's not only given us fits, but other people in the league as well," Djurickovic said. "He's really been hard on us. We're going to try to do things a little bit differently. We have to take him out of his comfort zone, which we've not been able to do the last couple of times we've played. "It's not just Sexauer. Sean Johnson (15.8 ppg, 19 points on Jan. 9) is an outstanding player. Jordan Zimmer (11.1 ppg) is a very potent scorer. They have some other guys who are excellent players as well."

[Titan Q]

Here is the boxscore from the first IWU/Carthage game:

http://www.iwusports.com/custompages/MBB/MBB2010/HTML/iwmbb13.htm

When Bosko refers to handling Doug Sexauer differently, I assume that means double-teaming him...which Carthage did not do in the first matchup.  The Red Men tried to guard him straight up in Bloomington, but they just do not match up very well down low against him (Tyler Pierce and whoever else is in there at the 5 can't really guard Doug).  

I have a feeling Carthage is going to make the Titans beat them from downtown tonight.  In the first game, it was the opposite - the Red Men tried to take perimeter shooters Sean Johnson and Jordan Zimmer away (which left Sexauer one-on-one down low).  I'll bet we see a bunch of 3-point attempts from Jordan Zimmer and Sean Johnson tonight.  These two only combined for 4 3-point attempts in the first game...I won't be surprised if that total is as high as 12-15 tonight.

Carthage has guard Max Cary back, but IWU has 6-6 John Koschnitzky (18 pts, 6 reb, 4-4 3-point vs Augie) back.  Koschnitzky could be a matchup problem for the Red Men whether he plays the 3 or 4.

Very intriguing X's and O's matchup when Carthage and IWU play.  You have the most up-tempo team in the league (IWU) vs the team that likes to play the most deliberately...a balanced team without one true superstar vs a team where everything flows through one player (who is one of the elite in  Division III)...an inside/out team vs an outside/in team...the two best CCIW offenses squaring off.  

In the first game, IWU's point-guard duo of Travis Rosenkranz and Sean Dwyer did a tremendous job playing man-to-man defense vs Djurickovic for 40 minutes, and the Titans also played great help defense...they'll need to do the same tonight to have a chance to knock of Carthage in Kenosha.  I honestly can't envision either team really "stopping" the other - both have some serious matchup challenges to deal with.  It will probably just come down to who shoots it better (both teams will get good shots).

It should be a great game.

[omaha]

I added the figures for North Park.

school	2009 (in $1,000s)	2008 (in $1,000s)	% change
Wheaton	250,695	321,930	-27.1
Illinois Wesleyan	151,141	182,476	-17.2
Augustana	88,745	110,990	-20.5
Millikin	84,409	88,739	-4.9
North Central	70,462	78,598	-10.4
Elmhurst	70,101	97,938	-28.4
North Park	49,272	60,304	-18.3
Carthage	33,693	43,499	-22.5

(edited by GS for formatting)

[petemcb]

Actually, up in Kenosha tonight should be one of the best women's/men's doubleheaders of the season.  I might have to head up north for both ends of that doubleheader.

[Titan Q]

The Carthage site indicates live video tonight...

http://www.carthage.edu/ais/webcast/index.html


I have tried to pull up the Carthage live audio (not video) link several times this season and have gotten an error every time ("timed out" or something like that).  I hope the video link works tonight...much better to watch than to listen!

[Titan Q]

Actually, up in Kenosha tonight should be one of the best women's/men's doubleheaders of the season.  I might have to head up north for both ends of that doubleheader.

This game is probably the IWU women's biggest obstacle in going 25-0 again in the regular season.  I have a feeling it will be a close game.

[Gregory Sager]

I added the figures for North Park.

Thanks. I've reformatted your post to make it a bit more readable.

Don't be so defensive, Greg.  Are you telling me that Gonzalez does not belong on the varsity squad, playing quality minutes?  Rhetorical question.

Heh! Mark, you've missed the point yet again. I've told you at least three times in this room that Gonzalez's first name is Jorge (pronounced as though it was spelled "George"), not Joe, and yet you kept on calling him Joe. That's the whole point behind this:

I wouldn't pay Mark much heed if I were you. After all, his favorite player is "Joe Gonzalez." 

How are we supposed to take you seriously when you keep advocating for a particular NPU player and you don't even know his name?

I don't recall ever saying Gonzalez was my favorite Viking.  My favorite is Nick Williams as he attended the HS where my kids are currently schooled, and I noticed that you did not counter my recent statement that Russell ignores Williams. 

That's because it's not worth countering. It's a goofy accusation.

[bigz61550]

On another subject, we've talked about the relative wealth of CCIW schools from time to time in this room. The 2009 version of the annual NACUBO endowment study has just been released (thanks to Ron Boerger over on the "Future of D3" board for the link to this data), and here's the endowment figures for the seven CCIW schools that reported:

school	2009 (in $1,000s)	2008 (in $1,000s)	% change
Wheaton	250,695	321,930	-27.1
Illinois Wesleyan	151,141	182,476	-17.2
Augustana	88,745	110,990	-20.5
Millikin	84,409	88,739	-4.9
North Central	70,462	78,598	-10.4
Elmhurst	70,101	97,938	-28.4
Carthage	33,693	43,499	-22.5

I know that Augustana SID Dave Wrath likes to track this stuff, although I don't know if he uses the NACUBO numbers or not.

North Park is not one of the institutions listed in the study. I know that NPU's endowment was approximately $60,000,000 back in 2008, and just like practically every school in the nation the Park took a big hit in its endowment portfolio last year. I'm not exactly sure how big a hit it took, though.

Incidentally, the median average for the endowments of American four-year colleges and universities in 2009 was $67,644,000. In 2008 it was $82,421,000, meaning that the average loss was about 17.9 percent, or slightly above what Illinois Wesleyan lost last year, percentage-wise.

What purpose would an SID use the endowment for?  If these were big schools with lots of money and alumni interest in sports, it might be an important statistic.  But we're looking at very good to excellent schools academically where the endowment probably supports academics more than anything.  Just curious what the use of the data is?

[Gregory Sager]

What purpose would an SID use the endowment for?  If these were big schools with lots of money and alumni interest in sports, it might be an important statistic.  But we're looking at very good to excellent schools academically where the endowment probably supports academics more than anything.  Just curious what the use of the data is?

Dave's not using it for anything. He simply tracks CCIW endowment figures out of personal interest, as do I. I simply posted it here as a conversation piece.