MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[ball]

Recruiting may be down for private schools in general, but it does not seem that way at Carthage. Even aside from Bosko's underclassmen, I would say that the quality of students and student-athletes coming to Carthage is on the rise. I have a sweet post-graduation plan in place and have truly enjoyed my 3.5 years here so far- It was certainly worth the extra buck for me.

Also, Carthage's track team will be competing at IWU tomorrow- unless Carthage and Augie go into 20 overtimes, it looks like we will all miss the game. 

[steve d is the man]

Recruiting may be down for private schools in general, but it does not seem that way at Carthage. Even aside from Bosko's underclassmen, I would say that the quality of students and student-athletes coming to Carthage is on the rise. I have a sweet post-graduation plan in place and have truly enjoyed my 3.5 years here so far- It was certainly worth the extra buck for me.

Also, Carthage's track team will be competing at IWU tomorrow- unless Carthage and Augie go into 20 overtimes, it looks like we will all miss the game. 

i hear carthage has quite the cheering section

[petemcb]

all good defensive ideas - however

1- North Park got blown out when they zoned Carthage

Again, Carthage didn't get separation in that game until after NPU started playing more man. The first half, in which NPU stuck almost exclusively with the 2-3 zone, ended with the Red Men up by three points.

2- Wheaton has had trouble stopping opponents' guards penetrating all year.

[/b]
This is true, and it's what North Park is banking on tomorrow evening.

[/b]


It's also what I was banking on when I made my NPU over Wheaton pick in CCIW Pick 'em.  Here's hopin'.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg- my guess on why the games at wheaton are flip flopped are similar to my guesses as to why their womens soccer, basketball and other programs have received so much funding from the school over the past 15 yrs. Tony Ladd has always been an over the top Title IX proponent.

I applaud Tony Ladd's devotion to gender equity, but, given that the Wheaton men's team averages close to a thousand fans per home game while the Wheaton women's team averages less than 200, I don't think it's a sound decision to force the men to play the early game.

I haven't seen anyone suggest a gimmick like a box and 1 or a triangle and 2.

Coebb suggested using a gimmick defense against Djurickovic:

I left the Wheaton game really disappointed in the creativity of Wheaton's coaching efforts.  First, no attempt was made to press Carthage except for a possession or two at the end of the game.  The Redmen's ball-handling ability as a team was never challenged.  Second, Wheaton rarely, if ever, used a zone to force Carthage into a perimeter game.  Two options come immediately to mind.  First, why not a box and one, or better yet a tight diamond and one?

Moving right along ...

Actually, you said "CCIW commish Chris Martin might as well just hand Steve Djurickovic the plaque right now."

The operative words being "right now," not this past October or November or last March.

1, I can see how you get to nearly 10,000 posts after reading this page.

Actually, the CCIW in-game updates room is where my post-accumulating skills really shine.

2b, (But I also learned something else in regards to that: In the discussion regarding an MOP, for instance, similar to the line of logic you just started to make about SD, last year JB won the D3 POY because KR had "too many weapons around him compared to JB" said some posters.  ie You take JB out of MIT and you have nothing else.  FYI, MIT is 19-2 on the year.  Maybe Carthage isn't a bunch of chumps?)

Boy, all those initials make my head hurt.

Seriously, though, I stayed on the sidelines during the Bartolotta-vs.-Raymond debate for the most part, if you'll remember. I voiced the opinion that I had a hard time believing that there was anybody better than Kent Raymond in D3, but since I had never seen Jimmy Bartolotta play I couldn't argue on Raymond's behalf with any real credence.

3, I did make a heay handed entry out of anger, which I prefaced with an acknowledgment of my bias and ended with a salutation pointing directly at the fact that I had been ranting.  I let my anger subside and tried to find better ways to describe what I was saying, which was summarized by coebball70's post this morning.  I wasn't making any accusations anyone else hasn't ever made about SD (or Kent, etc) getting the benefit of calls, or that he touches the ball 96% of Carthage's possession time, or that he initiates contact and flopped on a 3- so I don't feel that bad.  Nonetheless, I've modified my statements and actually gained back a +k in the days since Wednesday.

My two pieces of advice for all you kids out there in D3Land: Don't post while drunk, and don't post while angry.

One detail in particular from that last paragraph caught my eye:

I wasn't making any accusations anyone else hasn't ever made about SD (or Kent, etc) getting the benefit of calls, or that he touches the ball 96% of Carthage's possession time, or that he initiates contact and flopped on a 3- so I don't feel that bad.

Believe me, I've done my share of muttering after watching Kent Raymond or Steve Djurickovic initiate contact on a drive and then draw a foul by leaning away from the defender to imply a defensive push. But at the same time I admire it, because even though it's an attempt to deceive an official and is thus in a sense an act of poor sportsmanship (if you really want to be a purist about such things) it's something that can only be pulled off by: a) someone wily enough to attempt it; and b) someone skilled enough to make a sucker out of a man in stripes who has called thousands of fouls during his refereeing career. You have to really know the game and have both physical ability and a lot of audacity in order to be able to get away with it.

Plus, one thing that has rarely been discussed in regard to either Raymond or Djurickovic is that both of them want contact when they shoot. Some players really don't feel comfortable when shooting in traffic unless they are in physical contact with an opponent, and they actively seek it out. It sounds counterintuitive to say that a certain kind of shooter likes to get bumped, jostled, or bodied while shooting, but I've heard any number of basketball coaches swear that it's true. Of course, the opposite is true far more often -- a great number of players don't like to be in physical contact with an opponent while shooting.

"Stop your crying and take off the ORANGE colored blinders" is a little harsh, especially when all I wrote was "TM's stat line is not nonsense."

For the record, that was mwunder's line, not mine. I'm the one who made the corkscrew wisecrack.

Guesses - 1) In hopes the Carlson crazies miss the change in start time and show up for just the women's contest; 2) Minimize overtime payments to Wheaton's finest for crowd control; 3) Zone Ordinance - Stevie D going to suit-up for the Thunder and needs the extra time to make it back to Kenosha for 7:30 tip-off

Numbers 1 and 2 actually sound borderline plausible.

[CCIWchamps]

2b, (But I also learned something else in regards to that: In the discussion regarding an MOP, for instance, similar to the line of logic you just started to make about SD, last year JB won the D3 POY because KR had "too many weapons around him compared to JB" said some posters.  ie You take JB out of MIT and you have nothing else.  FYI, MIT is 19-2 on the year.  Maybe Carthage isn't a bunch of chumps?)

Boy, all those initials make my head hurt.

Seriously, though, I stayed on the sidelines during the Bartolotta-vs.-Raymond debate for the most part, if you'll remember. I voiced the opinion that I had a hard time believing that there was anybody better than Kent Raymond in D3, but since I had never seen Jimmy Bartolotta play I couldn't argue on Raymond's behalf with any real credence.

I thought I'd shorten the post by using all initials, but as I kept typing, more and more initials and acronyms kept popping up.  Upon rereading, I felt like I was deciphering a code and that was pretty cool- regardless of the fact that I was the one who had encrypted it and therefore obviously knew it.

I'm not reopening that discussion, but I do wonder how MIT is doing so well.  Related topic: if you took SD off Carthage, would they be Elmhurst bad?

One detail in particular from that last paragraph caught my eye:

I wasn't making any accusations anyone else hasn't ever made about SD (or Kent, etc) getting the benefit of calls, or that he touches the ball 96% of Carthage's possession time, or that he initiates contact and flopped on a 3- so I don't feel that bad.

Believe me, I've done my share of muttering after watching Kent Raymond or Steve Djurickovic initiate contact on a drive and then draw a foul by leaning away from the defender to imply a defensive push. But at the same time I admire it, because even though it's an attempt to deceive an official and is thus in a sense an act of poor sportsmanship (if you really want to be a purist about such things) it's something that can only be pulled off by: a) someone wily enough to attempt it; and b) someone skilled enough to make a sucker out of a man in stripes who has called thousands of fouls during his refereeing career. You have to really know the game and have both physical ability and a lot of audacity in order to be able to get away with it.

For obvious reasons I agree with both sides on this argument.  In the past I enjoyed lauded this skill, more recently I have loathed it.  Forward slash b on loathed.

"Stop your crying and take off the ORANGE colored blinders" is a little harsh, especially when all I wrote was "TM's stat line is not nonsense."

For the record, that was mwunder's line, not mine. I'm the one who made the corkscrew wisecrack.

And for the record, it was to him I was replying when I said "Ease up on the throttle."

-----

And with that I say, from one late night poster to another, I believe our problems are resolved. 

(...though only to be restarted at the conclusion of Saturday night's contest?)

[Titan Q]

Carthage: 8-1
Ill. Wesleyan: 7-2
Augustana: 6-3
Wheaton: 5-4
North Park: 4-5
North Central: 3-6
Millikin: 2-7
Elmhurst: 1-8


Today's games...

* Millikin @ North Central (4:30pm)

* North Park @ Wheaton (5:00pm)

* Augustana @ Carthage (7:30pm)

* Elmhurst @ Illinois Wesleyan (7:30pm)


One of the two big games today is Augie @ Carthage.  In the first meeting, Carthage led from wire to wire in Rock Island...the Red Men led by 8 at the half and by as much as 16 in the 2nd  (final margin was 5).  After this one, Carthage has: @ Elmhurst, vs North Central, vs North Park, @ Millikin...this may be Carthage's toughest test the rest of the regular season.  A win tonight puts the Red Men in tremendous shape in terms of winning the league outright.  An Augie loss would basically eliminate the Vikings from title contention, but they'd still be in very good shape in terms of making the conference tournament.

The other big game is North Park @ Wheaton.  On January 16, the Vikings won an overtime thriller over the Thunder, 75-73.  As far as making the conference tournament goes, this game seems to be an absolute "must win" for both teams.  A North Park win would pull the Vikings even with Wheaton (5-5) and, just as significantly, give NPU the tie-breaker (via sweep).  A Wheaton win obviously creates a 2-game lead and, I believe, eliminates North Park from realistic CCIW conference tournament contention.  (NPU would have 6 losses and a loss @ Carthage would be #7...7 sounds like one too many.)

IWU hosts Elmhurst...obviously a must win for the Titans at the Shirk Center.  Some very strange matchups in this one, with 6-6 and 6-7 IWU post players guarding 6-2 and 6-3 Elmhurst players, and vice versa.  IWU won the game at Elmhurst by 10 and led by as much as 20 in the 2nd half.  IWU's starting guards, Travis Rosenkranz and Sean Johnson, combined for 36 points in that one.

[Titan Q]

Greg- my guess on why the games at wheaton are flip flopped are similar to my guesses as to why their womens soccer, basketball and other programs have received so much funding from the school over the past 15 yrs. Tony Ladd has always been an over the top Title IX proponent.

I applaud Tony Ladd's devotion to gender equity, but, given that the Wheaton men's team averages close to a thousand fans per home game while the Wheaton women's team averages less than 200, I don't think it's a sound decision to force the men to play the early game.

I just can't understand why Wheaton would choose to have the men's game first.

[Titan Q]

Looking down the road at the all-conference team, I believe there are 4 very safe picks for the 1st team...

Steve Djurickovic, Carthage (6-3 Jr.) – 25.4 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 8.1 apg (lock for M.O.P.)
Tim McCrary, Wheaton (6-6 So.) -  22.0 ppg, 9.9 rpg, .546 FG
Derek Raridon, North Central (6-6 Fr.) – 21.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg
Doug Sexauer, Illinois Wesleyan (6-7 Jr.) -  18.0 ppg, 4.8 rpg, .709 FG

The top candidates for the final spot are probably...

Sean Johnson, Illinois Wesleyan (6-1 Jr.) – 17.3 ppg, 3.6 apg
David Twyman, North Central (6-3 Sr.) – 17.2 ppg, 5.0 rpg, .573 FG
Kyle Nelson, Augustana (6-9 Jr.) – 16.0 ppg, 7.6 rpg, .660 FG
Ben Panner, Wheaton (6-3 Sr.) – 15.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg


The final 5 games, and how the standings end up, will help sort out that last spot.

[usee]

Greg- my guess on why the games at wheaton are flip flopped are similar to my guesses as to why their womens soccer, basketball and other programs have received so much funding from the school over the past 15 yrs. Tony Ladd has always been an over the top Title IX proponent.

I applaud Tony Ladd's devotion to gender equity, but, given that the Wheaton men's team averages close to a thousand fans per home game while the Wheaton women's team averages less than 200, I don't think it's a sound decision to force the men to play the early game.

I just can't understand why Wheaton would choose to have the men's game first.

I don't understand either. Perhaps the thinking is they will get the usual turnout for the men's game and many will stay for the women's game. Or they think the nightcap will outright draw the same no matter who is playing. This line of thinking is flawed for obvious reasons and since there has been no advertising on the website nor email campaign I am guessing it's far more likely iwumichigander's idea of limiting unwanted and perceived unruliness for the men's game is to blame. 

[tyler durden]

From today's Kenosha News ...

http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/rolling___red_men_host_vikings_7286732.html

[cciwrabblerouser]

I've seen schools do the "men's game first, women's ame follows" and it always leads to an embarrassing result.  (I've seen it in basketball and soccer.)  What will happen will be a mass exodus after the men play, and the women will observe it while they are warming up.  American culture is not going to change, at least in any of our lifetimes.

[CCIWFAN3]

I agree Greg...Coach Schauer is a class act, and a great coach.

If you want to know about the flip flop in game times....got to tell ya offline sometime:)

[petemcb]

CCIWFAN3, very nice KarmaKomeback.  Dennis, are you sneaking on in the middle of the night to counter the Hall-of-Fame co-conspirators?  

[petemcb]

Have any Wheaton or Carthage fans timed the drive to each other's schools?  The lure of seeing both a game in the "I" and a game in the "W" of the CCIW is almost getting me.

[petemcb]

Looking down the road at the all-conference team, I believe there are 4 very safe picks for the 1st team...

Steve Djurickovic, Carthage (6-3 Jr.) – 25.4 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 8.1 apg (lock for M.O.P.)
Tim McCrary, Wheaton (6-6 So.) -  22.0 ppg, 9.9 rpg, .546 FG
Derek Raridon, North Central (6-6 Fr.) – 21.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg
Doug Sexauer, Illinois Wesleyan (6-7 Jr.) -  18.0 ppg, 4.8 rpg, .709 FG

The top candidates for the final spot are probably...

Sean Johnson, Illinois Wesleyan (6-1 Jr.) – 17.3 ppg, 3.6 apg
David Twyman, North Central (6-3 Sr.) – 17.2 ppg, 5.0 rpg, .573 FG
Kyle Nelson, Augustana (6-9 Jr.) – 16.0 ppg, 7.6 rpg, .660 FG
Ben Panner, Wheaton (6-3 Sr.) – 15.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg


The final 5 games, and how the standings end up, will help sort out that last spot.

My vote would go to either Twyman for the nice job he's done at both ends of the floor every time I've seen him this season or to Kyle Nelson for just some very impressive numbers this season and for the growth in his game.  Having said that, my sample size on Nelson is pretty small  -  like one game.