MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

North Park is strictly playing for pride from this point on, but I'd like to see the Vikings make use of these last four games by tightening up their defense and exhibiting more patience on the offensive end. It's a very young team, and they're still very much in learning mode.

Still, it would've been nice if they'd showed up today and demonstrated that they actually had something to play for.

Greg- I hope the Vikings don't have the same approach you do. If you think the conference tournament is all set you should think again. Wheaton has struggled on the road this season (they are 1-3 in conference and 3-5 overall) and with games @Augie, @IWU and @Elmhurst (only home v Millikin remains) as a Wheaton fan I am more than worried about Wheaton's conferenct tourney bid down the stretch.

NPU finishes vs. NCC, @Elmhurst, @Carthage and v IWU. They should be favored in 2 of those games and only the game @ Carthage looms large for the Vikings. If they can go 2-1 in those first three games while Wheaton struggles, there is every reason to believe they may be playing for a tourney bid vs IWU in their last game.

[Titan Q]

I believe a starting front line of  Crosby, Schneidermeier, and Gonzalez will be the best in the league next season.

Awfully early to make that call.  Next year IWU could go:

F Zimmer
F Koschnitzky/O'Callaghan/Schouten
C Sexauer

Augie:

F Rorer/Anderson
F Nelson
C Scarlata/Kunz/Norton

As of right now, you'd have to consider either of the above to be a better front line next year than you one you propose above.  NCC returns Derek Raridon...Wheaton Tim McCrary.  Depending on recruiting, they could be part of great frontcourts.

NPU has a lot of talent there, but that prediction is extremely premature.

[Titan Q]

Greg- I hope the Vikings don't have the same approach you do. If you think the conference tournament is all set you should think again. Wheaton has struggled on the road this season (they are 1-3 in conference and 3-5 overall) and with games @Augie, @IWU and @Elmhurst (only home v Millikin remains) as a Wheaton fan I am more than worried about Wheaton's conferenct tourney bid down the stretch.

NPU finishes vs. NCC, @Elmhurst, @Carthage and v IWU. They should be favored in 2 of those games and only the game @ Carthage looms large for the Vikings. If they can go 2-1 in those first three games while Wheaton struggles, there is every reason to believe they may be playing for a tourney bid vs IWU in their last game.

But even if NPU can pull off a two-game swing from the current standings (Wheaton 6-4, North Park 4-6), Wheaton is probably going to own the tie-breaker...Wheaton's win over Augustana is big (NPU was swept by Augie).

Wheaton can probably go 1-3 the rest of the way and still get in...as long as NPU loses @ Carthage.

[thunderstruck88]

Not only was it a great job by the Crazies et al, but they out-performed and even out-attended the Wheaton football team who usually compose a significant amount of whatever vocal and energetic student contingent shows up to a Wheaton game.  Where was the football team yesterday?  Did they miss the 5 p.m. start time?

The interesting thing about the football team is that they haven't formed a student section all season. Curiously enough, however, they all sit in the same section they used to stand in, around 4-5 rows higher up, with very calm demeanors.  

I wonder if someone complained about their rowdiness at basketball games, leading to a top-down decision. After years of being a major presence in games, I can't imagine that simple laziness would prevent them from organizing.

Hats off to the NPU student section, especially for continuing to support their team even down by double digits late in the second half. It was entertaining to watch the NPU students in the same section as the Wheaton students who have recently begun wearing trash cans to basketball games painted with the letters T.H.U.N.D.E.R. I don't think I've ever heard chants of OFFENSE and DEFENSE coming from the same section before.  

[AndOne]

It might have appeared empty, but I stuck around for the first half of that non-game and the crowd seemed to be about the same size as other Wheaton women's games that I've taken my daughter to.  It might have looked worse because of the exodus.  Is there any further word on the rationale for the switch?

I got on e-mail last night from "someone close to the Wheaton athletic department" (how is that for protecting a source?).  He was quite frankly irritated with the suggestion here that Wheaton College scheduled the game for 5:00pm to keep NPU students in check.  He said Wheaton's A.D. simply wanted to give the women's team the late game. 

My source is extremely reliable and very much in the know.

Q--

Your source my be "extremely reliable and very much in the know," and his version of the event in question may be 100 percent reliable. However, my investigator's instinct tells me an equal possibility exists that he was feeding you the "official" Wheaton line.

Consider that:
1. What is "someone "close to the Wheaton athletic dept" going to tell you besides what the Wheaton athletic dept wants you to believe?

2. Your source's communication simply said the Wheaton AD "simply" wanted to give the women's team the late game. There must have been a reason why  he "simply" wanted to do this. His explanation would seem more valid if the reasoning behind the decision was explained, even if it was something as simple as because the women never get the late game, or it was hoped the men's crowd would stay for the women's game. Basically, your source's note is saying the Wheaton AD did it just because he felt like it. How plausible is that?

3. The Wheaton athletic dept has a history of dealing harshly with North Park fans. I believe it was 2 yrs ago when the Wheaton security dept had the entire NP cheering section removed from a game at Wheaton and even called the Wheaton PD for reinforcements in so doing. Given this history, it seems more likely that this was a retaliatory move against the NP fans for what the conservative Wheaton forces determined was scandalous pagan behavior on the part of the invading Viking hoard.   

Other opinions?

[Viking Blue]

A team clamps down on Carthage's front line and wins.  No mystery with that strategy; I think I've read that here.

Jorge "Joe" Gonzalez played 22 minutes last night and scored 9 points while pulling down 10 rebounds.  I think he's proving himself...just don't know why his minutes are coming in the second half of the season.  I believe a starting front line of  Crosby, Schneidermeier, and Gonzalez will be the best in the league next season.

"Shooter" Collins is a grand 8-24 in trey attempts in his last five games.

And how has North Park done in those games in which "Shooter" has shot 33% and Joey G has seen increased minutes?

[Titan Q]

Q--

Your source my be "extremely reliable and very much in the know," and his version of the event in question may be 100 percent reliable. However, my investigator's instinct tells me an equal possibility exists that he was feeding you the "official" Wheaton line.

Consider that:
1. What is "someone "close to the Wheaton athletic dept" going to tell you besides what the Wheaton athletic dept wants you to believe?

2. Your source's communication simply said the Wheaton AD "simply" wanted to give the women's team the late game. There must have been a reason why  he "simply" wanted to do this. His explanation would seem more valid if the reasoning behind the decision was explained, even if it was something as simple as because the women never get the late game, or it was hoped the men's crowd would stay for the women's game. Basically, your source's note is saying the Wheaton AD did it just because he felt like it. How plausible is that?

3. The Wheaton athletic dept has a history of dealing harshly with North Park fans. I believe it was 2 yrs ago when the Wheaton security dept had the entire NP cheering section removed from a game at Wheaton and even called the Wheaton PD for reinforcements in so doing. Given this history, it seems more likely that this was a retaliatory move against the NP fans for what the conservative Wheaton forces determined was scandalous pagan behavior on the part of the invading Viking hoard.   

Other opinions?

Well, I guess I start with common sense.  How would Wheaton College prevent potential problems with NPU's student section by moving the game to 5:00pm?  Didn't starting the game at 5:00pm instead of 7:30pm just mean that North Park's students had to depart campus/arrive at King Arena about 2 hours and 30 minutes earlier?  (By all accounts, the group made the 5:00pm game in good numbers.)  It's not like Wheaton decided to hold the game at Wheaton North H.S. and didn't tell anyone from North Park.

I don't get the theory.

[Titan Q]

2. Your source's communication simply said the Wheaton AD "simply" wanted to give the women's team the late game. There must have been a reason why  he "simply" wanted to do this. His explanation would seem more valid if the reasoning behind the decision was explained, even if it was something as simple as because the women never get the late game,...

This is exactly what he said.  Just a chance to reward the women's program with a rare nightcap of a men's/women's doubleheader.  

When I posted, "He said Wheaton's A.D. simply wanted to give the women's team the late game", I guess I thought the reasoning, based on that explanation, was obvious.

[izzy stradlin]

It might have appeared empty, but I stuck around for the first half of that non-game and the crowd seemed to be about the same size as other Wheaton women's games that I've taken my daughter to.  It might have looked worse because of the exodus.  Is there any further word on the rationale for the switch?

I got on e-mail last night from "someone close to the Wheaton athletic department" (how is that for protecting a source?).  He was quite frankly irritated with the suggestion here that Wheaton College scheduled the game for 5:00pm to keep NPU students in check.  He said Wheaton's A.D. simply wanted to give the women's team the late game. 

My source is extremely reliable and very much in the know.

Q--

Your source my be "extremely reliable and very much in the know," and his version of the event in question may be 100 percent reliable. However, my investigator's instinct tells me an equal possibility exists that he was feeding you the "official" Wheaton line.

Consider that:
1. What is "someone "close to the Wheaton athletic dept" going to tell you besides what the Wheaton athletic dept wants you to believe?

2. Your source's communication simply said the Wheaton AD "simply" wanted to give the women's team the late game. There must have been a reason why  he "simply" wanted to do this. His explanation would seem more valid if the reasoning behind the decision was explained, even if it was something as simple as because the women never get the late game, or it was hoped the men's crowd would stay for the women's game. Basically, your source's note is saying the Wheaton AD did it just because he felt like it. How plausible is that?

3. The Wheaton athletic dept has a history of dealing harshly with North Park fans. I believe it was 2 yrs ago when the Wheaton security dept had the entire NP cheering section removed from a game at Wheaton and even called the Wheaton PD for reinforcements in so doing. Given this history, it seems more likely that this was a retaliatory move against the NP fans for what the conservative Wheaton forces determined was scandalous pagan behavior on the part of the invading Viking hoard.   

Other opinions?

AndOne, I have no insider knowledge, but knowing Tony Ladd from my days at Wheaton I am not at all surprised that he would want the women to get the late game simply out of fairness. He has always been extremely pro-female athletics to the point where it sometimes irritated a few men's programs (not that they would openly admit).           

That said, I don't think they pull this switch on a Saturday night with IWU in town. 

[usee]

Greg- I hope the Vikings don't have the same approach you do. If you think the conference tournament is all set you should think again. Wheaton has struggled on the road this season (they are 1-3 in conference and 3-5 overall) and with games @Augie, @IWU and @Elmhurst (only home v Millikin remains) as a Wheaton fan I am more than worried about Wheaton's conferenct tourney bid down the stretch.

NPU finishes vs. NCC, @Elmhurst, @Carthage and v IWU. They should be favored in 2 of those games and only the game @ Carthage looms large for the Vikings. If they can go 2-1 in those first three games while Wheaton struggles, there is every reason to believe they may be playing for a tourney bid vs IWU in their last game.

But even if NPU can pull off a two-game swing from the current standings (Wheaton 6-4, North Park 4-6), Wheaton is probably going to own the tie-breaker...Wheaton's win over Augustana is big (NPU was swept by Augie).

Wheaton can probably go 1-3 the rest of the way and still get in...as long as NPU loses @ Carthage.

I agree Q, I guess I was thinking if Wheaton tanks and goes 1-3 and NPU goes 3-1 with win over IWU wouldn't the tie breaker favor NPU assuming IWU finishes higher than Augie? (that may be your point in that if Augie wins out and IWU loses 1, they are then tied? )

[Titan Q]

I agree Q, I guess I was thinking if Wheaton tanks and goes 1-3 and NPU goes 3-1 with win over IWU wouldn't the tie breaker favor NPU assuming IWU finishes higher than Augie? (that may be your point in that if Augie wins out and IWU loses 1, they are then tied? )

If Wheaton goes 1-3 (with losses @ Augie, @ IWU, @ Elmhurst, and a win at home over Millikin) and NPU goes 3-1 (with wins vs North Central, @ Elmhurst, and vs IWU, and a road loss @ Carthage), creating a 7-7 tie, you'd start at the top of the standings and go down...


* Both would be 0-2 vs Carthage.  Move on to next...
* Both would be 1-1 vs IWU.  Move on to next...
* Wheaton would be 1-1 vs Augie, NPU 0-2.  (Wheaton wins tie-breaker.)

It wouldn't really matter what order Carthage, IWU, and Augie were in since the records vs Carthage and IWU would be pushes in this hypothetical.  As soon as it gets to Augie, Wheaton wins.

Bottom line, North Park has to win out (including winning @ Carthage) and Wheaton has to lose twice.  I actually do think Wheaton will lose twice...but I don't think NPU will win out.

[cciwrabblerouser]

Based on the schedule for the next two weeks, I'll be a little surprised if Wheaton isn't 8-2 after Super Bowl Sunday.  Their biggest test will be the home game vs. Carthage.

As for the other four...

Augie and North Park, at best, will be 6-4.
Carthage is looking at 7-3.
And IWU should be at 8-2.

I disagree.  I think it is very feasible that North Park is sitting at 7-3.  To say they will, at best, win two of those four is selling the Vikings far too short.

What a difference two weeks can make.  NPU is 4-6 and currently on the outside looking in.  I'm not saying that the Chicago Vikes can't get into the playoffs, but the hill to climb is pretty steep right now.

[Titan Q]

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/article_bda4bcb0-13a5-11df-bfad-001cc4c002e0.html

"Lawson just killed us. He was a minor point of emphasis in the scouting report," Elmhurst coach Mark Scherer said. "He gave them a big boost."

Grey Giovanine had a similar quote after IWU beat Augie in Bloomington:

Wesleyan had a very unpleasant surprise waiting for the Vikings, too – the return of John Koschnitzky. He came off the bench and drilled all four of his 3-point attempts en route to a team-high 18 points.

"He hadn't been playing and wasn't even in our scouting report,'' said Giovanine of the swingman who also grabbed a team-high six rebounds. "That was far and away his his best outing of the year.''

http://www.qconline.com/archives/qco/print_display.php?id=477307


IWU's depth is quite a luxury.  Last night in the 1st half, IWU's bench outscored the entire Elmhurst team. 

 

[markerickson]

Titan Q:  I have to be optimistic.

[AndOne]

As far as an analysis of the Titans, I think it can be said that this is a gifted offensive team with nice depth. They have a great 1-2 punch in Sexauer & Johnson. However, their Achilles heel is unquestionably defense. North Central's Raridon, Barringer, and Twyman continually went around and over the Titans to the tune of 28,26, and 19 points respectively. It was as if the Titans feet were glued to the floor. They seem to have too many players who either can't play defense of don't care to. I think playing Dwyer more in defensive situations toward the end of the game would be beneficial. He also won't hurt you much offensively.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/article_bda4bcb0-13a5-11df-bfad-001cc4c002e0.html

"Lawson just killed us. He was a minor point of emphasis in the scouting report," Elmhurst coach Mark Scherer said. "He gave them a big boost."

Grey Giovanine had a similar quote after IWU beat Augie in Bloomington:

Wesleyan had a very unpleasant surprise waiting for the Vikings, too – the return of John Koschnitzky. He came off the bench and drilled all four of his 3-point attempts en route to a team-high 18 points.

"He hadn't been playing and wasn't even in our scouting report,'' said Giovanine of the swingman who also grabbed a team-high six rebounds. "That was far and away his his best outing of the year.''

http://www.qconline.com/archives/qco/print_display.php?id=477307


IWU's depth is quite a luxury.  Last night in the 1st half, IWU's bench outscored the entire Elmhurst team. 

Agreed. I think it would be pretty hard to find a team with more offensive depth than the Titans. As I said though, I think the majority of their problems are found on the defensive end of the court.