MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Hardwood]

Be nice Q:)

Remember it was Coach G 7,  Coach Rose 0 before this season.  Let's not gloat to much.

[Hardwood]

I'm sure it's not easy playing during finals week, but IWU has led Augie for about 79 of the 80 total minutes this season...and maintained leads throughout both games of about 8 points on average.  I'm not sure I buy Coach G's excuse.

Careful Q. You'll get some hateful idiot(s) pissed off and he/they will come on here in the middle of the night for 2 weeks and ding you.   
Of course, in support of your argument, how much are you gonna buy from the guy that discussions last season showed apparently sold a recruit or two on the fact that Augie operates a medical school?         
[/quote]
Good call AndOne, We wouldn't want anyone taking your job!

[Titan Q]

Be nice Q:)

Remember it was Coach G 7,  Coach Rose 0 before this season.  Let's not gloat to much.

I'm not gloating in the least bit.  I'm simply calling Coach G out on a really weak excuse for losing the game last night.

[AndOne]

I'm sure it's not easy playing during finals week, but IWU has led Augie for about 79 of the 80 total minutes this season...and maintained leads throughout both games of about 8 points on average.  I'm not sure I buy Coach G's excuse.

Careful Q. You'll get some hateful idiot(s) pissed off and he/they will come on here in the middle of the night for 2 weeks and ding you.   
Of course, in support of your argument, how much are you gonna buy from the guy that discussions last season showed apparently sold a recruit or two on the fact that Augie operates a medical school?         

Good call AndOne, We wouldn't want anyone taking your job!
[/quote]

Hey Hard, I appreciate your concern for my welfare, but I'm not the one selling a false bill of goods here! 

[AndOne]

The CCIW is going to be loaded in 2010-11.  Going to be very tough for teams like North Central, Millikin, and Elmhurst trying to build and get in the mix.

That's for sure, especially since all three of them will have to replace key players as well as augment their 2009-10 squads. NCC loses Twyman, Barringer, and Knapczyk; Elmhurst loses Bainter and Childs; and Millikin loses Warren, Mitchell, and the brothers Demby (i.e., all four of the Big Blue's top rebounders and four of the team's top five scorers).

All the more reason for recruits to choose NCC, EC, or MU where they will have a chance to play sooner rather than later. If you wanna play, why not go someplace where you'll have a better chance of doing so as a freshman rather than sitting on your butt watching for probably 2 years before having any real chance of seeing any action.

I know a kid right now who may have already given a verbal commitment to one of this year's conference tourney teams despite the fact he'll have 3 players (all of who play now) returning ahead of him at his position, not to mention any other freshman the school brings in at the same position. The kid will be in a wonderful academic environment, but his choice will reduce his chances of seeing any varsity time next year, and probably the year after, to virtually zero.

[Gregory Sager]

The CCIW is going to be loaded in 2010-11.  Going to be very tough for teams like North Central, Millikin, and Elmhurst trying to build and get in the mix.

That's for sure, especially since all three of them will have to replace key players as well as augment their 2009-10 squads. NCC loses Twyman, Barringer, and Knapczyk; Elmhurst loses Bainter and Childs; and Millikin loses Warren, Mitchell, and the brothers Demby (i.e., all four of the Big Blue's top rebounders and four of the team's top five scorers).

All the more reason for recruits to choose NCC, EC, or MU where they will have a chance to play sooner rather than later. If you wanna play, why not go someplace where you'll have a better chance of doing so as a freshman rather than sitting on your butt watching for probably 2 years before having any real chance of seeing any action.

Yeah, but the problem is that North Central, Elmhurst, and Millikin don't have a single medical school between them.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The CCIW is going to be loaded in 2010-11.  Going to be very tough for teams like North Central, Millikin, and Elmhurst trying to build and get in the mix.

That's for sure, especially since all three of them will have to replace key players as well as augment their 2009-10 squads. NCC loses Twyman, Barringer, and Knapczyk; Elmhurst loses Bainter and Childs; and Millikin loses Warren, Mitchell, and the brothers Demby (i.e., all four of the Big Blue's top rebounders and four of the team's top five scorers).

All the more reason for recruits to choose NCC, EC, or MU where they will have a chance to play sooner rather than later. If you wanna play, why not go someplace where you'll have a better chance of doing so as a freshman rather than sitting on your butt watching for probably 2 years before having any real chance of seeing any action.

I know a kid right now who may have already given a verbal commitment to one of this year's conference tourney teams despite the fact he'll have 3 players (all of who play now) returning ahead of him at his position, not to mention any other freshman the school brings in at the same position. The kid will be in a wonderful academic environment, but his choice will reduce his chances of seeing any varsity time next year, and probably the year after, to virtually zero.

You've raised again an eternal question - to go where PT is more likely (and, if you've got the self-confidence, where YOU can help lead them to a title), or to go where a title is more likely (and if you've got the parenthetical above, you probably figure you'll play anyway )?

Leaving aside the more important questions of academic, and other, best fit, different athletes will come up with different answers.  For the  truly dominant teams (e.g., MUC and UWW in football), (many) recruits seem to be perfectly happy with the 'wait, but get trophies' approach; others may be attracted by the 'I'll play right away' approach.  In situations where their isn't a totally dominant school (long term, IWU is, but most of those titles were before these kids were born ), PT just might be a great selling point - in recent history both NCC and Elmhurst have had excellent teams, and NPU certainly can point to 5 times as many walnut-and-bronze trophies as the rest of the conference combined (though I sure hope they keep they dusted!   Sorry, Greg, Dennis, etc. - I couldn't resist! ).

[Gregory Sager]

NPU certainly can point to 5 times as many walnut-and-bronze trophies as the rest of the conference combined (though I sure hope they keep they dusted!   Sorry, Greg, Dennis, etc. - I couldn't resist! ).

I'm not sure where NPU keeps the theys, but I would trust that the Physical Plant staff knows how to keep any they it comes across dust-free. Me, I like to keep my theys in these ... you can fit thousands of theys in them! At least, that's what they say about theys.

[Mr. Ypsi]

NPU certainly can point to 5 times as many walnut-and-bronze trophies as the rest of the conference combined (though I sure hope they keep they dusted!   Sorry, Greg, Dennis, etc. - I couldn't resist! ).

I'm not sure where NPU keeps the theys, but I would trust that the Physical Plant staff knows how to keep any they it comes across dust-free. Me, I like to keep my theys in these ... you can fit thousands of theys in them! At least, that's what they say about theys.

Someday I will improve my proof-reading - touche'!

[usee]

Mike Schauer on the postgame said "the game against elmhurst is a playoff game for us. We are very much alive for an at large bid to the tournament. We are more in it than people think"

I'm not sure where Mike gets this. The optimal road for Wheaton to possible Pool C candidacy -- a win at Elmhurst on Saturday, followed by a win over Illinois Wesleyan a week from tomorrow in Kenosha before losing in the CCIW tourney final -- leaves his team with a regional record of 18-8. That means that the primary criterion that has always seemed to be the benchmark for Pool C candidacy, in-region winning percentage, would be .692 for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance. And .692 is just not going to cut it on Selection Sunday. Wheaton would have some other decent primary criteria, especially if teams such as McMurry, Loras, and/or Pomona-Pitzer win their respective conference tournaments, but (unless I'm missing something) that .692 is too big an obstacle to overcome.

Agreed. I don't think a 3rd win over IWU in the tourney gets Wheaton anywhere either. Recall 2 years previous the shoe was on the other foot when Wheaton got in over IWU even thought the Titans beat them 3 times. But I do believe the Wheaton team that got in the tourney for 2007-08 was worse than .692 right?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mike Schauer on the postgame said "the game against elmhurst is a playoff game for us. We are very much alive for an at large bid to the tournament. We are more in it than people think"

I'm not sure where Mike gets this. The optimal road for Wheaton to possible Pool C candidacy -- a win at Elmhurst on Saturday, followed by a win over Illinois Wesleyan a week from tomorrow in Kenosha before losing in the CCIW tourney final -- leaves his team with a regional record of 18-8. That means that the primary criterion that has always seemed to be the benchmark for Pool C candidacy, in-region winning percentage, would be .692 for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance. And .692 is just not going to cut it on Selection Sunday. Wheaton would have some other decent primary criteria, especially if teams such as McMurry, Loras, and/or Pomona-Pitzer win their respective conference tournaments, but (unless I'm missing something) that .692 is too big an obstacle to overcome.

Agreed. I don't think a 3rd win over IWU in the tourney gets Wheaton anywhere either. Recall 2 years previous the shoe was on the other foot when Wheaton got in over IWU even thought the Titans beat them 3 times. But I do believe the Wheaton team that got in the tourney for 2007-08 was worse than .692 right?

I've always thought of that as the 'Kent Raymond exemption'!   (And, no, that is not sour grapes - IWU had NO claim on a C that year.)  And they certainly did make the committee look good, going to the Elite 8!

[Titan Q]

Mike Schauer on the postgame said "the game against elmhurst is a playoff game for us. We are very much alive for an at large bid to the tournament. We are more in it than people think"

I'm not sure where Mike gets this. The optimal road for Wheaton to possible Pool C candidacy -- a win at Elmhurst on Saturday, followed by a win over Illinois Wesleyan a week from tomorrow in Kenosha before losing in the CCIW tourney final -- leaves his team with a regional record of 18-8. That means that the primary criterion that has always seemed to be the benchmark for Pool C candidacy, in-region winning percentage, would be .692 for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance. And .692 is just not going to cut it on Selection Sunday. Wheaton would have some other decent primary criteria, especially if teams such as McMurry, Loras, and/or Pomona-Pitzer win their respective conference tournaments, but (unless I'm missing something) that .692 is too big an obstacle to overcome.

Agreed. I don't think a 3rd win over IWU in the tourney gets Wheaton anywhere either. Recall 2 years previous the shoe was on the other foot when Wheaton got in over IWU even thought the Titans beat them 3 times. But I do believe the Wheaton team that got in the tourney for 2007-08 was worse than .692 right?

Brandeis was a Pool C last year at 17-8 in-region (.680).

In 2007-08 Wheaton was 15-6 (.714) in-region.

[usee]

Q- is brandeis the only example of a team with a sub .700 winning percentage making it? Mind you I see it as a very remote possibily that Wheaton makes it as a C given that IWU will have a better resume and Wheaton would have to be a 3rd team from the CCIW. I also haven't studied the national picture much as I have been fairly certain the Thunder had no shot but Isuppose stranger things have happened.

[Gregory Sager]

To the best of my knowledge, 2008-09 Brandeis is the only sub-.700 team to ever garner a Pool C bid. And I'm pretty sure that the Judges made it on the basis of: a) having four wins over regionally-ranked teams (Rhode Island C., Amherst, and two over Carnegie Mellon); and b) playing a huge number of games against regionally-ranked teams (those four games, plus two against Wash U and one against Mass-Dartmouth), based upon the principle that the primary criterion of "record against regionally-ranked teams" refers as much to bulk as it does to accomplishment in terms of those games.

That may be what Mike Schauer is getting at; Wheaton may sneak in via what I hereby dub the Brandeis Precedent. (I dub it that because it sounds like the title of a Robert Ludlum novel.) That's why I say it might be key for Wheaton to pick up more post facto regionally-ranked opponents in Loras, McMurry, etc. Wheaton's already got eight regionally-ranked-opponent games in the books (two wins apiece over Augie and IWU, losses to Hope, Wash U, and two to Carthage).

[Titan Q]

Q- is brandeis the only example of a team with a sub .700 winning percentage making it? Mind you I see it as a very remote possibily that Wheaton makes it as a C given that IWU will have a better resume and Wheaton would have to be a 3rd team from the CCIW. I also haven't studied the national picture much as I have been fairly certain the Thunder had no shot but Isuppose stranger things have happened.

I think there are some other sub-.700 Pool C's, but I'd have to look.

For Wheaton to get a Pool C I think it would have to take some luck...and I know Mike Schauer's theology does not believe in luck.