MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Wednesday women's/men's doubleheaders are a disastrously bad idea. Of course, if Joe Hakes can come on here and give us a sound reason why these complaints against the idea should be swept aside, I will certainly keep an open mind.

I'm not Joe Hakes but the MWC has had the doubleheader format for years and I don't recall any complaints about it.

1. This isn't the MWC. This is the CCIW, where we have not had the women's/men's doubleheader format for years.

2. There's a massive difference between Friday doubleheaders and Wednesday doubleheaders with regard to missed classes (at many schools, Friday is a comparatively light day in terms of the academic week) and attendance (it's frequently easier to leave work early on a Friday if you're a parent than it is to leave work early on a Wednesday). And postgame travel is not nearly as big an issue on a Friday night as it is on a Wednesday night.

3. I don't know about the MWC, but all eight CCIW programs still place a high premium upon their junior varsity programs.

4. Traveling fan issues are less significant in the geographically broader MWC, because there's fewer fans. The (relatively) geographically compact CCIW often has substantial numbers of visiting-team fans at its games. And home fans are more likely to be close enough at hand to attend CCIW games, too. This is all reflected in the respective attendance figures for the two leagues: In MWC league games, the attendance average this year was 493. In CCIW league games, the attendance average this year was 895 -- and that's a low figure, because NPU underestimated its home crowds by a good 100 to 200 fans every night.

[Klompen]

back in the day Central (IA) had several good basketball teams.

There 1969-70 team featured a bruising 6-7 center, who later went on to make a name for himself in the NFL, Vern Den Herder, starting at defensive end for the Miami Dolphins of undefeated fame.

Their 1978 team hosted the midwest regional in Pella.  They lost a close battle to Minnesota-Morris in the first round.

In 1979 they came to North Park for the midwest regional.  They pressed Minnesota-Morris into 32 turnovers in easily winning their opener.  In the regional championship game North Park played a near-perfect game to win by 15 points, with one turnover and only five fouls.  To this day I still think that the best game North Park played in its three-year championship run.

Yes, "back in the day."
Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away..........   

Hey, now, some of us remember Vern Den Herder and Dick Anderson and Nick Buoniconti and Mercury Morris and Jim Kiick and Paul Warfield and the Zonk and Griese and that whole annual-champagne-swigging crew.

I hated that team, but I still remember it.

Hey now, I watched and cheered for Vern Den Herder in both basketball and football at Central back in the day AND I LOVED that No Name Defense.  Guess I'm not going to be too popular on this board.   

[Klompen]

Total # of Possessions per Game (team + opponent)
Central: 149.7
IWU: 134.4

I had heard Central is an up-tempo team, but seeing the possessions per game number really caught my attention.  IWU's 134.4 was the highest in the CCIW this year - in other words, IWU played at the fastest pace (generating the most combined possessions).  The Titans, at 134.4, aren't even in the ballpark with Central in terms of pace.

Most teams want to slow IWU down and make them play a halfcourt game.  The Titans really haven't been allowed to run in a long time...maybe since the non-conference.  It will be interesting to watch the pace of the IWU/Central game.  There could be a whole bunch of points scored Friday night!

Now, the Dutch certainly have not played a schedule like some of the CCIW teams.  But still, on paper, they appear to be a very good defensive team.

The Dutch have not played a difficult non-conference schedule and play in the weak IIAC, so I don't know how they will compare.  But I can tell you that Central is indeed a very good defensive team and while we run quite a bit, we don't really allow other teams to do the same.  But then again, we don't play in the CCIW, which I am willing to give you is a stronger conference.  We did win the outright championship by a couple of games breathing room and seemed to cruise in the tourney championship game, but we were hitting on all cylinders that night.  I'm anxious to see what they can do this weekend, but will have to watch and listen from home.   

[matblake]

As an aside, Wheaton cuts some varsity sports: http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2010/3/2/GEN_Sports.aspx?path=gen

[Mr. Ypsi]

As an aside, Wheaton cuts some varsity sports: http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2010/3/2/GEN_Sports.aspx?path=gen

Most unfortunate, especially women's golf.  Last fall the Wheaton women came within 7 strokes of derailing the Titan juggernaut; without Wheaton, IWU would have won by 56 strokes!

[Gregory Sager]

As an aside, Wheaton cuts some varsity sports: http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2010/3/2/GEN_Sports.aspx?path=gen

Unfortunate -- and a sobering reminder of the context behind the whole women's/men's doubleheader debate, especially since Wheaton is by far the wealthiest school in the league. That doesn't mean that Wheaton has an athletics budget that dwarfs everyone else's, of course; it simply means that there's more of an institutional cushion present in terms of finances. It should be obvious by now that every school in the league is really under the gun in terms of curbing expenditures.

I still don't think that Wednesday women's/men's doubleheaders are a good budget-cutting move, but the Wheaton cuts do illustrate the depth of the CCIW's budgetary problems.

[carthagealum]

Wheaton used to have the largest financial endowment in the CCIW. I wonder if that is still the case?

Anyone know offhand what varsity sports have been added and eliminated among CCIW schools in recent years?

I know my alma mater (Carthage) has added a few sports in recent years. Offhand, men's and women's lacrosse come to mind, as well as men's volleyball and women's water polo. No cuts in sports that I can think of for Carthage.

[Mugsy]

Wheaton used to have the largest financial endowment in the CCIW. I wonder if that is still the case?

Anyone know offhand what varsity sports have been added and eliminated among CCIW schools in recent years?

I know my alma mater (Carthage) has added a few sports in recent years. Offhand, men's and women's lacrosse come to mind, as well as men's volleyball and women's water polo. No cuts in sports that I can think of for Carthage.

Wheaton does still have the largest endowment of CCIW schools, though it is down 20% or so from the economic down turn.  Someone posted the actual numbers on this board a month or so ago.  I'm sure you'll see the exact details soon...

[Gregory Sager]

Wheaton used to have the largest financial endowment in the CCIW. I wonder if that is still the case?

Anyone know offhand what varsity sports have been added and eliminated among CCIW schools in recent years?

I know my alma mater (Carthage) has added a few sports in recent years. Offhand, men's and women's lacrosse come to mind, as well as men's volleyball and women's water polo. No cuts in sports that I can think of for Carthage.

Wheaton does still have the largest endowment of CCIW schools, though it is down 20% or so from the economic down turn.  Someone posted the actual numbers on this board a month or so ago.  I'm sure you'll see the exact details soon...

... and here they are:

school	2009 (in $1,000s)	2008 (in $1,000s)	% change
Wheaton	250,695	321,930	-27.1
Illinois Wesleyan	151,141	182,476	-17.2
Augustana	88,745	110,990	-20.5
Millikin	84,409	88,739	-4.9
North Central	70,462	78,598	-10.4
Elmhurst	70,101	97,938	-28.4
North Park	49,272	60,304	-18.3
Carthage	33,693	43,499	-22.5

Carthage has been the only CCIW school in expansion mode with regard to athletics in recent years. That school's leadership marches to the beat of a different drummer when it comes to athletics expenditures. NPU did add women's rowing, but that was seven years ago.

[carthagealum]

Varsity sports offered per CCIW school?

[carthagealum]

Watching a video podcast of the Carleton vs. St. Thomas game from January 9. Want to have a sense of who I'm watching on Saturday if Friday goes well.

http://secure.stretchinternet.com/demo/games.php?user=carleton&o=cal_stamp&descv=DESC&ed=today

[markerickson]

I had an interesting conversation with a law student who attended a recent conference sponsored by DePaul on the intersection of sport, opportunity, and profit motive aka revenue generation.  He said at least two Horizon League schools - private schools- chose to increase the number of athletic teams as a way to increase the number of students paying tuition.  Sounds similar to the MO at NPU. 

[Titan Q]

Some notes about the Central Dutch from their website...

http://www.central.edu/athletics/story.cfm?StoryID=2782


Leading scorer Miguel Ley, a senior point-guard, was named IIAC POY yesterday...

http://www.central.edu/athletics/story.cfm?StoryID=2784

[Titan Q]

school	2009 (in $1,000s)	2008 (in $1,000s)	% change
Wheaton	250,695	321,930	-27.1
Illinois Wesleyan	151,141	182,476	-17.2
Augustana	88,745	110,990	-20.5
Millikin	84,409	88,739	-4.9
North Central	70,462	78,598	-10.4
Elmhurst	70,101	97,938	-28.4
North Park	49,272	60,304	-18.3
Carthage	33,693	43,499	-22.5

I just sent my annual alumni donation to dear ole Wesleyan - bumped it up to $50,000,000 this year.  With the State Farm match included, these figures will look different as soon as that is processed.

Maybe Carthage should consider selling Stevie D. to Williams, Amherst, Chicago, or some wealthy D3.

[matblake]

There are some sports that you can't get rid of if you want to stay in the CCIW.  From the CCIW Constitution:

Section 2: Core Sports. In the men's program, every member of the Conference must play every other Conference member in football, basketball and baseball and must participate in the Conference (meet) program of at least five other sports. In the women's program, every member of the Conference must play every other Conference member in volleyball, basketball and softball and must participate in the Conference (meet) program of at least
five other sports.

You can see the entire constitution here:  http://www.cciw.org/pdf/constitution.pdf