MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Paging Dr. OurHouse, paging Dr. OurHouse. 

Just curious to see thoughts on how the Sweet 16 trip will be/has been screwed up.

I'm kind of wondering what song he is singing right now too.  I mean, this is a guy who has built his posting career around the premise that guards Sean Johnson and Travis Rosenkranz shouldn't be on the floor.  Anyone who has watched IWU play the last two weekends would have to find that laughable.

Oh well, I'm sure we'll get to hear from Ourhouse whenever the Titans get eliminated. 

[CCIWFAN3]

The most underrated titan....Travis.  IWU goes as Travis goes.  I'm glad he got all conference.  Good luck!

[Gregory Sager]

For those not keeping track, Stevie D now had 1977 pts for his career.  He has a shot at becoming the all-time leading scorer in the CCIW.  He would need a 4th consecutive 600 pt season to get it done, but he has a chance.

The "all-time leading scorer in the CCIW," in the eyes of the conference, is the player who scored the most points in CCIW play. And that's Leon Gobczynski, Millikin's scoring dynamo from the mid-'70s who used to turn CCIW scoreboards into pinball machines. (Steve D. has scored forty points in a CCIW game once; Gobczynski did it fourteen times during his career -- and that was before the advent of the three-point shot.)

Steve D. is currently 25th on the all-time CCIW scoring list with 1,030 points. If he maintains his scoring pace of the last three years in his senior season, he'll wind up with 1,373 points -- good for third all-time behind Gobczynski (1,662) and Gobczynski's contemporary, Dave Shaw of Carroll (1,478).

As for overall points, you're right about Steve D.'s being able to catch Gobczynski (2,635) if he has another 600-point season. It could turn out to be crucial for Carthage to play extra games aside from its scheduled 25 regular-season contests (CCIW tourney, D3 tourney) in order for him to do that, but I certainly wouldn't bet against him.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

For those not keeping track, Stevie D now had 1977 pts for his career.  He has a shot at becoming the all-time leading scorer in the CCIW.  He would need a 4th consecutive 600 pt season to get it done, but he has a chance.

The "all-time leading scorer in the CCIW," in the eyes of the conference, is the player who scored the most points in CCIW play. And that's Leon Gobczynski, Millikin's scoring dynamo from the mid-'70s who used to turn CCIW scoreboards into pinball machines. (Steve D. has scored forty points in a CCIW game once; Gobczynski did it fourteen times during his career -- and that was before the advent of the three-point shot.)

Steve D. is currently 25th on the all-time CCIW scoring list with 1,030 points. If he maintains his scoring pace of the last three years in his senior season, he'll wind up with 1,373 points -- good for third all-time behind Gobczynski (1,662) and Gobczynski's contemporary, Dave Shaw of Carroll (1,478).

As for overall points, you're right about Steve D.'s being able to catch Gobczynski (2,635) if he has another 600-point season. It could turn out to be crucial for Carthage to play extra games aside from its scheduled 25 regular-season contests (CCIW tourney, D3 tourney) in order for him to do that, but I certainly wouldn't bet against him.

neither Gobcsynski or Shaw (and I saw both play multiple times) was as good a player as Stevie Dj is.  Gobcynski was 6-9 and had a great baseline jumper from 12 feet on in.  If Shaw had had a three-point shot he would have scored well over 3000 points in his career.  He was a great shooting guard.

[Gregory Sager]

Congratulations to the Titans and Redmen. To think we werte only 2pts from 3 CCIW teams in the sweet 16 in a "down year". It reminds me of how fortunate we are to watch such quality bball night after night. I am really impressed witht the Titan win in St Louis. Since Sean Johnson's ofer vs the thunder in bloomington he has looked great. And I'm happy the redmen sent the anderson coach home til next year

Yeah, this is why I hesitated to make any sort of a statement about the CCIW having no chance to send a team deep into the tourney this year. I don't think that there's any doubt that the league is down this year. But March is a different animal than November and December, and I strongly believe that the grind of the CCIW slate in January and February -- even if the overall strength of the league isn't up to its usual par -- does a better job of preparing tourney-bound teams than do conference games in many other circuits. And, in this case, it's helped make up for the league's weak spot, which is its overall youth.

Here's what I mean in terms of our two surviving teams: I've seen Illinois Wesleyan in person twice this year, @ Chicago and @ NPU, and quite frankly I wasn't all that impressed by the Titans in terms of what sort of a tournament ceiling they had. I certainly didn't view them as a Sweet-Sixteen-quality squad. But it's a junior-dominated team, and by now those juniors have become seniors in all but name (particularly since the key players have been a part of the varsity rotation since their days as freshmen). In other words, they've erased their roster deficiency in seniors. Carthage is somewhat similiar, in that the biggest shortcoming of the Red Men was the fact that they were so heavily dependent upon freshmen. But, as Bosko has pointed out several times now in recent newspaper articles, Pierce, Thompson, Guzman, and Kelly can't be considered freshmen anymore -- and the stiffness of Carthage's competition in January and February has had a tremendous amount to do with that transformation.

It's a shame that only one CCIW team will be able to advance to the Elite Eight. But I would certainly say that whoever wins on Friday night will have a solid shot at knocking off (presumably) host UWSP and moving on to the Final Four.

[CCgrad2004]

With at least 1 game this season and at least 25 next season, (some quick math shows) Stevie D would need to average 25.3 points per game to equal the mark set by Gobczynski.  It will be fun to watch and see if he can keep up that pace and hit that mark.

Why (by the way) did Gobczynski have so few non-conference points?  Only 1,000 points came from non-conference play.  That is surprising to me.  Where Stevie is on pace for about half in CCIW play and half of his point to come from the non-confrence portion of the schedule.  

[Mr. Ypsi]

With at least 1 game this season and at least 25 next season, (some quick math shows) Stevie D would need to average 25.3 points per game to equal the mark set by Gobczynski.  It will be fun to watch and see if he can keep up that pace and hit that mark.

Why (by the way) did Gobczynski have so few non-conference points?  Only 1,000 points came from non-conference play.  That is surprising to me.  Where Stevie is on pace for about half in CCIW play and half of his point to come from the non-confrence portion of the schedule.  

If I've got the dates right, Carroll was still in the conference when he played, so there were 16 conference games a season.

[Gregory Sager]

For those not keeping track, Stevie D now had 1977 pts for his career.  He has a shot at becoming the all-time leading scorer in the CCIW.  He would need a 4th consecutive 600 pt season to get it done, but he has a chance.

The "all-time leading scorer in the CCIW," in the eyes of the conference, is the player who scored the most points in CCIW play. And that's Leon Gobczynski, Millikin's scoring dynamo from the mid-'70s who used to turn CCIW scoreboards into pinball machines. (Steve D. has scored forty points in a CCIW game once; Gobczynski did it fourteen times during his career -- and that was before the advent of the three-point shot.)

Steve D. is currently 25th on the all-time CCIW scoring list with 1,030 points. If he maintains his scoring pace of the last three years in his senior season, he'll wind up with 1,373 points -- good for third all-time behind Gobczynski (1,662) and Gobczynski's contemporary, Dave Shaw of Carroll (1,478).

As for overall points, you're right about Steve D.'s being able to catch Gobczynski (2,635) if he has another 600-point season. It could turn out to be crucial for Carthage to play extra games aside from its scheduled 25 regular-season contests (CCIW tourney, D3 tourney) in order for him to do that, but I certainly wouldn't bet against him.

neither Gobcsynski or Shaw (and I saw both play multiple times) was as good a player as Stevie Dj is.

I've heard that from other old-timers as well. Unfortunately, this says something about the inherent incompleteness of statistics in terms of evaluating players, both past and present. It's unfortunate because as time goes on and the generations that had the opportunity to see a player pass away, we thus lose perspective on them and can only gauge them by the agate on the CCIW website. How good was Bill Warden in his NCC heyday back in the Eisenhower era? How would Wheaton immortal Mel Peterson measure up against contemporary CCIW players? Was Scott Steagall a great all-around player for Millikin, or just a scorer? Unless we get a septuagenarian or octogenarian to post here who has been watching CCIW basketball since the days of leather knee-pads, two-handed set shots, and silky short-shorts with belts, we may never know.

With at least 1 game this season and at least 25 next season, (some quick math shows) Stevie D would need to average 25.3 points per game to equal the mark set by Gobczynski.  It will be fun to watch and see if he can keep up that pace and hit that mark.

Why (by the way) did Gobczynski have so few non-conference points?  Only 1,000 points came from non-conference play.  That is surprising to me.  Where Stevie is on pace for about half in CCIW play and half of his point to come from the non-confrence portion of the schedule.  

CCIW teams could play a maximum of 26 regular-season games back then, and the fact that it was a nine-team league (Carroll was in the CCIW back then) meant that the league's teams played a sixteen-game double round-robin, leaving one fewer non-conference game than we have now. In Millikin's case, the Big Blue didn't even play a full slate during Gobczynski's freshman and sophomore years. His freshman year they played only 21 games (10-11, 5-11); his sophomore year they played 23 (15-8, 10-6); his junior year they played 27 (22-5, 14-2, lost in first round of NAIA District 20 playoffs to McKendree, 108-96); and his senior year they played 26 (13-13, 8-8). Thus, Gobczynski only had the opportunity to play 33 non-conference games during his career. Steve D.'s already played in 37 of them to date.

[mwunder]

For those not keeping track, Stevie D now had 1977 pts for his career.  He has a shot at becoming the all-time leading scorer in the CCIW.  He would need a 4th consecutive 600 pt season to get it done, but he has a chance.

The "all-time leading scorer in the CCIW," in the eyes of the conference, is the player who scored the most points in CCIW play. And that's Leon Gobczynski, Millikin's scoring dynamo from the mid-'70s who used to turn CCIW scoreboards into pinball machines. (Steve D. has scored forty points in a CCIW game once; Gobczynski did it fourteen times during his career -- and that was before the advent of the three-point shot.)

Steve D. is currently 25th on the all-time CCIW scoring list with 1,030 points. If he maintains his scoring pace of the last three years in his senior season, he'll wind up with 1,373 points -- good for third all-time behind Gobczynski (1,662) and Gobczynski's contemporary, Dave Shaw of Carroll (1,478).

As for overall points, you're right about Steve D.'s being able to catch Gobczynski (2,635) if he has another 600-point season. It could turn out to be crucial for Carthage to play extra games aside from its scheduled 25 regular-season contests (CCIW tourney, D3 tourney) in order for him to do that, but I certainly wouldn't bet against him.

Technically, you are correct.  Leon Gobczynski will still be the leader in conference points scored for the CCIW after next season.  Steve has a chance to break Leon's total career pts scored in 4 years of play as a team member of a CCIW school. 

[Gregory Sager]

For those not keeping track, Stevie D now had 1977 pts for his career.  He has a shot at becoming the all-time leading scorer in the CCIW.  He would need a 4th consecutive 600 pt season to get it done, but he has a chance.

The "all-time leading scorer in the CCIW," in the eyes of the conference, is the player who scored the most points in CCIW play. And that's Leon Gobczynski, Millikin's scoring dynamo from the mid-'70s who used to turn CCIW scoreboards into pinball machines. (Steve D. has scored forty points in a CCIW game once; Gobczynski did it fourteen times during his career -- and that was before the advent of the three-point shot.)

Steve D. is currently 25th on the all-time CCIW scoring list with 1,030 points. If he maintains his scoring pace of the last three years in his senior season, he'll wind up with 1,373 points -- good for third all-time behind Gobczynski (1,662) and Gobczynski's contemporary, Dave Shaw of Carroll (1,478).

As for overall points, you're right about Steve D.'s being able to catch Gobczynski (2,635) if he has another 600-point season. It could turn out to be crucial for Carthage to play extra games aside from its scheduled 25 regular-season contests (CCIW tourney, D3 tourney) in order for him to do that, but I certainly wouldn't bet against him.

thank you for the clarification Greg.  I was kind of thinking that was the case, but I wasn't sure.  I knew that someone would correct me if I was wrong!!  I think the Carthage SID has it incorrect as well since he has Wiertel listed at #9 on the CCIW list of 2000 pt scorers with his 2113 career points...so I only take partial blame for the inaccuracy.

Carthage SID Steve Marovich is, as usual, right on the money with regard to Jason Wiertel:

CCIW Two Thousand Point Club

player	school	final yr	pts
Leon Gobczynski	Millikin	1975	2635
Dave Shaw	Carroll	1977	2563
Mel Peterson	Wheaton	1960	2542
Kent Raymond	Wheaton	2009	2308
Jack Sikma	Illinois Wesleyan	1977	2272
Bill Warden	North Central	1955	2249
Jesse Price	Millikin	1969	2222
Scott Steagall	Millikin	1951	2127
Jason Wiertel	Carthage	2002	2113
Michael Thomas	North Park	1981	2085
Blaise Bugajski	Illinois Wesleyan	1984	2062
Marv Johnson	Wheaton	1951	2044
Justyne Monegain	North Park	1985	2039
John Laing	Augustana	1973	2035

I would certainly never bet against Pistol, either.

[Into_the_Blue]

A look at the projected starters for the four teams at Stevens Point...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/notes10.htm

But March is a different animal than November and December, and I strongly believe that the grind of the CCIW slate in January and February -- even if the overall strength of the league isn't up to its usual par -- does a better job of preparing tourney-bound teams than do conference games in many other circuits. And, in this case, it's helped make up for the league's weak spot, which is its overall youth.

Here's what I mean in terms of our two surviving teams: I've seen Illinois Wesleyan in person twice this year, @ Chicago and @ NPU, and quite frankly I wasn't all that impressed by the Titans in terms of what sort of a tournament ceiling they had. I certainly didn't view them as a Sweet-Sixteen-quality squad. But it's a junior-dominated team, and by now those juniors have become seniors in all but name (particularly since the key players have been a part of the varsity rotation since their days as freshmen). In other words, they've erased their roster deficiency in seniors. Carthage is somewhat similiar, in that the biggest shortcoming of the Red Men was the fact that they were so heavily dependent upon freshmen. But, as Bosko has pointed out several times now in recent newspaper articles, Pierce, Thompson, Guzman, and Kelly can't be considered freshmen anymore -- and the stiffness of Carthage's competition in January and February has had a tremendous amount to do with that transformation.

I was just checking out the projected starters from the Stevens Point Sectional.  

After reading what you wrote Greg I was expecting to see IWU and Carthage having young teams, but I didnt expect to see that the whole sectional would have a total of 5 projected senior starters (3 on UT-D).  It would seem three out of four of these teams should remain relatively in tact for next season (notice I say should).  

IWU
Rosenkranz Jr.
Johnson Jr.
Zimmer Soph.
Koschnitzky Soph.
Sexauer Jr.

Carthage
Djurickovic Jr.
Hiton Sr.
Cary Soph.
Thompson Fr.
Pierce Fr.

Stevens Point
Moses Sr.
Jenkins Jr.
Hurd Jr.
Hoelzel Jr.
Krull Jr.

UT - Dallas
Fleming Sr.
Rodgers Sr.
Davis Jr.
Barnes Soph.
Eppink Sr.

Seems like UTD is the "old-man" of the bunch.  It will be interesting to see how this sectional turns out!  

Congratulations to the Titans and Redmen. To think we werte only 2pts from 3 CCIW teams in the sweet 16 in a "down year". It reminds me of how fortunate we are to watch such quality bball night after night.

I have never had the opportunity to watch a CCIW team play a game from the stands.  I did play against NPU one time but at that time I didnt really pay that much attention to the CCIW, I guess I was in my own little bubble.  I do read here a lot and get excited for the CCIW teams in the tournament because I feel they are the closest thing to me regionally that is able to regularly make some noise in the postseason.  My lack of exposure to the CCIW may be a good thing however, because I have no allegiances with any one team and wish all the teams well in the tournament.  I did pick Stevens Point to win the whole thing in my bracket but Ill be secretly cheering for a CCIW team.  

USee Im glad you know what you have.  Some people dont appreciate what they are exposed to on a regular basis.  I'm happy with what Ive got, but Im always looking to expand my horizons...my goal next year is to make a CCIW game.  Who is closest to KC, MO?  

[Gregory Sager]

my goal next year is to make a CCIW game.  Who is closest to KC, MO? 

Augie looks closer, but Millikin appears to have a better interstate connection to KC than does Rock Island.

[Into_the_Blue]

my goal next year is to make a CCIW game.  Who is closest to KC, MO? 

Augie looks closer, but Millikin appears to have a better interstate connection to KC than does Rock Island.

I think I-35 to Des Moines and I-80 east wouldnt be too bad of a drive.  I might have to check out an augie home game. 

[pcarr]

my goal next year is to make a CCIW game.  Who is closest to KC, MO? 

Augie looks closer, but Millikin appears to have a better interstate connection to KC than does Rock Island.

I think I-35 to Des Moines and I-80 east wouldnt be too bad of a drive.  I might have to check out an augie home game. 

Having made the drive from Topeka to Wheaton plenty of times via both routes, there's very little difference roads/time-wise between driving to Rock Island and Decatur.  Probably about five hours either way. Possible St. Louis traffic would be the only downside to the Decatur route.  I'd also recommend considering a WashU game, especially if a CCIW team ventures down there. Very easy drive.  Just hold your nose through Columbia. 

[Dennis_Prikkel]

my goal next year is to make a CCIW game.  Who is closest to KC, MO? 

Augie looks closer, but Millikin appears to have a better interstate connection to KC than does Rock Island.

I think I-35 to Des Moines and I-80 east wouldnt be too bad of a drive.  I might have to check out an augie home game. 

Having made the drive from Topeka to Wheaton plenty of times via both routes, there's very little difference roads/time-wise between driving to Rock Island and Decatur.  Probably about five hours either way. Possible St. Louis traffic would be the only downside to the Decatur route.  I'd also recommend considering a WashU game, especially if a CCIW team ventures down there. Very easy drive.  Just hold your nose through Columbia. 

a blast from the past - and from Bristol no less - welcome back - say hello to the Green man for me.