MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Illinois Prep Bulls-eye

North Central Lands Banner Class

By Roy & Harv Schmidt

May 7, 2010

12:45 P.M. CST

The CCIW is absolutely loading up with top quality Division III recruits, and another school which has landed a banner recruiting class for 2010 is North Central College in Naperville, IL. The "hidden gem" and headliner of the class is 6'8 Bradley Hallstein from Normal West High School in Normal, IL. Hallstein has excellent three point shooting range, and connected on 67 threes this past season. He can play the 3 or 4 and will be perfect in North Central's attempts at a high- low, motion game. Hallstein received one Division I scholarship offer from Wagner University before that university underwent a coaching change.

The Cardinals also landed another perfect Division III front court player in 6'5, 235 pound wide body Landon Gamble from Lockport Township High School in Lockport, IL. Gamble has solid post skills, throws his body around on the boards, and goes to war every play. He defends bigger players well, and will complement Hallstein quite well in the high-low game. Gamble received a Division II scholarship offer from D2 power Ferris State. 6'6 Charlie Rosenberg from Fremd High School in Palatine, IL is another sleeper prospect because of his ability to score both inside and outside. His fundamental skill set is good and he plays hard and smart.

Moving to the wing and the perimeter, 6'4 Martell Flowers from Oak Park-River Forest High School in Oak Park, IL is a sleeper athlete who can attack the basket, finish in transition, and occasionally help at bringing the ball down the court in transition. He has a solid mid range game and plays above the rim. 6'2 Kyle Pembrook from Neuqua Valley High School in Naperville, IL was a key ingredient on Neuqua Valley's Top 10 ranked team this past season, and possesses excellent shooting range and will serve as the Cardinals' zone buster. The player that the Cardinals really like as the sleeper of this recruiting class is 5'10 lightning quick point guard Tyler Smeltzy from Riverdale High School in Riverdale, IL. Smeltzy made Special Mention All-State for Class 1A/2A by the Illinois Basketball Coaches Association. 6'4 Adam LeTorneau from Batavia High School in Batavia, IL rounds out the Cardinals' outstanding class.

******************************************************************
There is no indication that North Central has concluded their recruiting efforts. Look for the Cardinals to add at least 3 more quality recruits to the 8 already on board. Actually, its not hard to envision the Cards adding 5-7 more new faces before the 2010 recruiting class is complete. Led by 1st year Head Assistant Coach and Recruiting Coordinator Todd Kelly, the North Central recruiting staff has already assembled the most talented and deepest class of recruits in the 5 years that I have been familiar with the team.

[Titan Q]

There is no indication that North Central has concluded their recruiting efforts. Look for the Cardinals to add at least 3 more quality recruits to the 8 already on board. Actually, its not hard to envision the Cards adding 5-7 more new faces before the 2010 recruiting class is complete. Led by 1st year Head Assistant Coach and Recruiting Coordinator Todd Kelly, the North Central recruiting staff has already assembled the most talented and deepest class of recruits in the 5 years that I have been familiar with the team.

Sounds like an incoming class of 13-15 freshmen in Naperville.  I'm interested in your thoughts about the quantity of recruits NCC is bringing in.  Too many?

[Gregory Sager]

I can't speak for Mark, but I can't see why 13-15 newbies would be too many for NCC to assimilate. By my count, North Central only had eight or nine guys in uniform at the end of last season who are eligible to return in 2010-11, and that includes JV guys who weren't dressing for the varsity. CCIW coaches seem to want to have somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 bodies to start the year during fall open gyms, with the idea that this is a sufficient number to insulate against the typical attrition of injuries and defections while still guaranteeing enough players to field a JV team alongside the varsity.

[AndOne]

There is no indication that North Central has concluded their recruiting efforts. Look for the Cardinals to add at least 3 more quality recruits to the 8 already on board. Actually, its not hard to envision the Cards adding 5-7 more new faces before the 2010 recruiting class is complete. Led by 1st year Head Assistant Coach and Recruiting Coordinator Todd Kelly, the North Central recruiting staff has already assembled the most talented and deepest class of recruits in the 5 years that I have been familiar with the team.

Sounds like an incoming class of 13-15 freshmen in Naperville.  I'm interested in your thoughts about the quantity of recruits NCC is bringing in.  Too many?

I can't speak for Mark, but I can't see why 13-15 newbies would be too many for NCC to assimilate. By my count, North Central only had eight or nine guys in uniform at the end of last season who are eligible to return in 2010-11, and that includes JV guys who weren't dressing for the varsity. CCIW coaches seem to want to have somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 bodies to start the year during fall open gyms, with the idea that this is a sufficient number to insulate against the typical attrition of injuries and defections while still guaranteeing enough players to field a JV team alongside the varsity.

Greg--
Exactly.

Bob---
Lets 1st address your question regarding numbers. For comparison sake, lets include the Illinois Wesleyan Titans, a team I understand you know a thing or two about, in the equation.
The Wesleyan web site shows a roster of 21 as of the end of the season. Subtract Mr. Dwyer. I believe that leaves us with 20. You currently list 8 new Wesleyan recruits, for a total of 28. The North Central web site shows a season ending roster of 15. Subtract Knapczyk, Barringer, Twyman, and 1 player who I understand will not be returning. That takes us down to only 11. Supposing there are as many as 15 new recruits, the total then would be 26 or 2 less than Wesleyan.
I sincerely doubt you would say Wesleyan has too many players. Therefore, as 15 new players would give North Central 2 fewer than Wesleyan. it looks like you have answered your own question. The answer being, as Greg suggested above, that 15 new players is NOT too many for NCC to bring aboard. This is especially true when you consider normal attrition rates, and is a factor of NCC's loss of 6 seniors after the 08-09 season, plus 3 more this year, the 9 graduations resulting in a rather low total of players. In taking this one step further, I believe it can be said that a number of recruits recognize the opportunity to complete for meaningful playing time sooner rather than later at NCC. This is directly opposed to a school like Wesleyan who returns a veteran roster, many of whom already see playing time, almost entirely intact. Many new recruits coming into such a situation truly have little chance of earning much, if any playing time until at least their junior year.   

Concerning the quality of the North Central recruits, Brad Hallstein and Landon Gamble are kids just about any, if not every team would love to have. The 6'8" Hallstein, who hit 67 threes,  received a D1 offer, and had looks from a couple other D1s. Gamble is a player built along the lines of Carthage's Pierce and North Park's Crosby who rec'd a D2 offer. Charlie Rosenberg is a tough as nails 6'6" player who can score both inside and from mid range. From what I've seen of Mortell Flowers, I'd say he has the potential to be the next David Twyman. He is a 6'4" greyhound who can run fast, jump high, slash to the hoop, and finish with authority. Additionally, he possesses above average ball handling skills. Kyle Pembrook was a solid contributor, and probably the best shooter on a top 10 team that is sending one player to a D1 school and another to D2. Adam LeTourneau was probably the overall most versatile player on a Batavia team the won twice as many games as they lost. A 6'4" kid with a huge wingspan, he is not outstanding in any one singular phase of the game, but displays above average shooting, ball handling, and passing skills. He does need to gain strength, but is a player with a big upside whose best basketball is definitely ahead of him. I have not seen Pezanoski or Smeltzly play, but neither can be too shabby as both were Special Mention All-State players.            

[Titan Q]

Greg--
Exactly.

Bob---
Lets 1st address your question regarding numbers. For comparison sake, lets include the Illinois Wesleyan Titans, a team I understand you know a thing or two about, in the equation.
The Wesleyan web site shows a roster of 21 as of the end of the season. Subtract Mr. Dwyer. I believe that leaves us with 20. You currently list 8 new Wesleyan recruits, for a total of 28. The North Central web site shows a season ending roster of 15. Subtract Knapczyk, Barringer, Twyman, and 1 player who I understand will not be returning. That takes us down to only 11. Supposing there are as many as 15 new recruits, the total then would be 26 or 2 less than Wesleyan.
I sincerely doubt you would say Wesleyan has too many players. Therefore, as 15 new players would give North Central 2 fewer than Wesleyan. it looks like you have answered your own question. The answer being, as Greg suggested above, that 15 new players is NOT too many for NCC to bring aboard. This is especially true when you consider normal attrition rates, and is a factor of NCC's loss of 6 seniors after the 08-09 season, plus 3 more this year, the 9 graduations resulting in a rather low total of players. In taking this one step further, I believe it can be said that a number of recruits recognize the opportunity to complete for meaningful playing time sooner rather than later at NCC. This is directly opposed to a school like Wesleyan who returns a veteran roster, many of whom already see playing time, almost entirely intact. Many new recruits coming into such a situation truly have little chance of earning much, if any playing time until at least their junior year.  

Concerning the quality of the North Central recruits, Brad Hallstein and Landon Gamble are kids just about any, if not every team would love to have. The 6'8" Hallstein, who hit 67 threes,  received a D1 offer, and had looks from a couple other D1s. Gamble is a player built along the lines of Carthage's Pierce and North Park's Crosby who rec'd a D2 offer. Charlie Rosenberg is a tough as nails 6'6" player who can score both inside and from mid range. From what I've seen of Mortell Flowers, I'd say he has the potential to be the next David Twyman. He is a 6'4" greyhound who can run fast, jump high, slash to the hoop, and finish with authority. Additionally, he possesses above average ball handling skills. Kyle Pembrook was a solid contributor, and probably the best shooter on a top 10 team that is sending one player to a D1 school and another to D2. Adam LeTourneau was probably the overall most versatile player on a Batavia team the won twice as many games as they lost. A 6'4" kid with a huge wingspan, he is not outstanding in any one singular phase of the game, but displays above average shooting, ball handling, and passing skills. He does need to gain strength, but is a player with a big upside whose best basketball is definitely ahead of him. I have not seen Pezanoski or Smeltzly play, but neither can be too shabby as both were Special Mention All-State players.            

Thanks.  I was just curious on your take on things based on some of your previous posts...

But, realistically, you know the odds are that one will see the vast majority of PT at the 4 and ONE other almost all the remaining time. The other 2 will
most likely spend all, or close to all of there time keeping the bench warm without any real chance of earning playing time over the course of the season unless its in a blowout type game where the outcome will have long been decided before they ever set foot on the floor.

So now we have at least four good 4s . Only 1 problem---so few minutes/so many men.  

I know a kid right now who may have already given a verbal commitment to one of this year's conference tourney teams despite the fact he'll have 3 players (all of who play now) returning ahead of him at his position, not to mention any other freshman the school brings in at the same position.

However, in some cases, I have absolutely no doubt that from a basketball standpoint, some kids DO indeed make poor decisions. If you want to play basketball in college, why not go to a school where you can both have a better chance of playing sooner rather than later, if at all, and still get a great education as well? For a kid looking for a great academic experience who also loves basketball (or any other sport) and has the desire and ability to play at the next level, thats a valid
question.

In the past, you have been very focused on what is good for the recruits from a playing time standpoint...as opposed to what is good for the school, from a standpoint of overall program depth, ability to field a competitive JV team, having good options in the event of injuries, etc.  

As I think you will agree, the most players from any one class who end up playing significant varsity minutes is about 7 (and that might be a stretch).  So if North Central brings in as many as 15 recruits, aren't there as many as 8 kids who, in your mind, are making "poor decisions"?

As you know, I never agreed with you (about players making "poor decisions").  My stance has obviously always been that kids should decide where they want to go to school, irregardless of how many other guards or forwards or centers are around them.  I think bringing 15 kids is absolutely fine.  But based on your posts over the years, I was just wondering if you'd have concern with this NCC class.  Your explanation today suggests that you've changed your stance. I'm happy to hear that as it should mean no more questioning of kids who decide to go to a school where playing time on the basketball team is not a given.  It sounds like we are both on the same page finally -- that kids should go where they want to go, even if that means they will have to compete vs other very good player for playing time.

[Titan Q]

I sincerely doubt you would say Wesleyan has too many players.        

Actually Wesleyan does have too many players right now.  That's not anyone's fault, but "it is what it is."  Simple math tells us that Ron Rose and staff will have some tough roster decisions to make before the 2010-11 season.  Just as Todd Raridon will when those 15 kids from the Class of 2014 get to be about juniors.  That can happen in Division III, where you don't have built-in roster control via scholarship limits.  It's part of the game.

The good thing about that is that no one gets to feel "safe."  If Duncan Lawson, for example, decides to spend more time this summer at Pub II and LaBamba than at the Shirk Center, he'll get to watch the action next season from the Hooper's Club, as opposed to the floor.  It all works out in the end.

[John Gleich]

"Small college programs hitting it big"

http://blogs.suntimes.com/hoopsreport/


Several D3 teams mentioned.

I think the guy is reading your stuff on d3boards.com

There aren't many who know Illinois high school basketball better, or who see more players in each season, than Joe Henricksen.  Henricksen's annual player rankings (I think he ranks the top 150 or so in each class) end up being better than any other I see year in and year out.  It is an imperfect science that no one can get exactly right, but I think he does the best job.  And what I like most about his stuff is that he respects, appreciates, and promotes the small colleges.  Most evaluators think every kid who can dribble and make a jumpshot is a D1 player, and they overhype these kids throughout the year.

Joe knows a heck of a lot more than me or anyone who posts here about IHSA basketball players.

I could have sworn I posted that link when I read the story...!  I must not have hit submit!

I've recently started following that blog and it is really, really good.  I'm not sure that anything was in his story that had not previously been recorded here (or elsewhere on the message boards), but it seemed like there was some additional insight about certain players.

[John Gleich]

maybe they were playing "a line and three"   

I've always been a huge fan of the "dot and four" defense, but only when I'm the dot. 

[Gregory Sager]

In the past, you have been very focused on what is good for the recruits from a playing time standpoint...as opposed to what is good for the school, from a standpoint of overall program depth, ability to field a competitive JV team, having good options in the event of injuries, etc.  

As I think you will agree, the most players from any one class who end up playing significant varsity minutes is about 7 (and that might be a stretch).  So if North Central brings in as many as 15 recruits, aren't there as many as 8 kids who, in your mind, are making "poor decisions"?

As you know, I never agreed with you (about players making "poor decisions").  My stance has obviously always been that kids should decide where they want to go to school, irregardless of how many other guards or forwards or centers are around them.  I think bringing 15 kids is absolutely fine.  But based on your posts over the years, I was just wondering if you'd have concern with this NCC class.  Your explanation today suggests that you've changed your stance. I'm happy to hear that as it should mean no more questioning of kids who decide to go to a school where playing time on the basketball team is not a given.  It sounds like we are both on the same page finally -- that kids should go where they want to go, even if that means they will have to compete vs other very good player for playing time.

Mark's perfectly capable of defending himself, but I have to say that I think you're comparing apples to oranges here, Bob. First of all, let's be fair to him in terms of what he was actually saying. He never said anything about playing time being a given at any school, or about not competing for playing time. His words were, "have a better chance of playing sooner rather than later," which is an altogether different thing than playing time being a given with no competition implied.

Secondly, he's been going on all along about recruits choosing schools whose teams already have mostly- or fully-intact returning rotations, or an already-stacked depth chart at the recruit's position. Not that I've agreed with his reasoning -- I'm more in your camp when it comes to the issue of whether or not to choose a school based upon the possibility of attaining immediate varsity playing time on a sports team -- but I recognize the conditions that he describes at Illinois Wesleyan (it exists at other schools as well; North Park, for example, has a large roster loaded with juniors-to-be who have logged extensive varsity minutes already, and Carthage and Augie have similar rotation logjams in place at most or all of the five positions, but since IWU is the school whose recruiting seems to have drawn the most ire from Mark, that's who we'll go with here).

Here's the thing: Illinois Wesleyan meets Mark's description of a school whose basketball team has a mostly- or fully-intact returning rotation. North Central, on the other hand, doesn't. Aside from Derek Raridon and Brian Evans, and perhaps Kevin Gillespie, I don't see anyone on the NCC roster who is a lock to be in the 2010-11 rotation. That means that as many as six of those 13-to-15 newbies might find their way into the 2010-11 Cardinals rotation. That's a staggering amount of immediate opportunity, especially for a team in one of D3's premier basketball conferences. Beyond that, none of them have appeared on campus yet and taken part in practices. Nothing is written in stone with them yet. Todd Raridon hasn't sorted them out into the wheat and the chaff with regard to who will be getting significant varsity minutes and who will be depth-chart fodder. For all we know, the guys whom Mark is touting the most right now could be bypassed by the guys whom he's touting the least. They aren't high-schoolers anymore, they're collegians now, which means that they're all unknowns at this point.

I don't see any inconsistency in what Mark has been saying all along. As I said, I don't necessarily agree with him, but he's not contradicting himself.

[dansand]

I don't see any inconsistency in what Mark has been saying all along. As I said, I don't necessarily agree with him, but he's not contradicting himself.

Except that...

No doubt Brandon Kunz is getting a good education at Augie, but from a basketball standpoint, he is one of those kids who should have gone with his 2nd choice, where he could have also gotten a good education and played a lot more sooner rather than later.

Last year, when Brandon came on board, Augie was replacing eight players who either graduated or left the program.

[augiefan]

Actually Brandon Kunz got quite a bit of playing time in his first year at Augie based on the traditionally  limited playing time most freshman see in their first year in the talented CCIW. Kunz was averaging around 20 minutes per game by season end and was working his way into the starting lineup. Given Coach G's history of freely substituting those were significant minutes for a freshman.

[Titan Q]

Actually Brandon Kunz got quite a bit of playing time in his first year at Augie based on the traditionally  limited playing time most freshman see in their first year in the talented CCIW. Kunz was averaging around 20 minutes per game by season end and was working his way into the starting lineup. Given Coach G's history of freely substituting those were significant minutes for a freshman.

Kunz started Augie's final 4 games actually.

And IWU's Stephen Rudnicki was in the varsity rotation during conference season this year, as a sophomore, before getting injured.  Despite...

As an upperclassman it will no doubt have to be.

Realistically, where is he gonna play for the first 2 if not 3 years? Certainly not in the guard/perimeter rotation of Rosenkranz, Johnson, and Dwyer. Nor on the wing with Morris, Lawson, and Schick. I'm probably even leaving out some additional players who will see minutes at the guard and wing positions ahead of him.

Lastly, as a stick at 6'3" and 165 lbs, he is really going to have to add some weight/muscle to avoid ending up as kindling wood in the CCIW fireplace.

From the standpoint of playing time on the basketball court, his choice seems odd, especially given the other schools he was considering.

[AndOne]

Dan & Augie--

Although the odds seemed, to me at least, against Brandon's playing as much as he has early in his career, he certainly earned significant time as a freshman, and deserves congratulations. However, as far as players earning as many minutes as Brandon so early in their careers, especially at "stacked" schools, I believe he is the exception rather than the rule. Accordingly, I don't think I was inconsistent in my position, just wrong in Brandon's case.

[AndOne]

And IWU's Stephen Rudnicki was in the varsity rotation during conference season this year, as a sophomore, before getting injured.  Despite...

As an upperclassman it will no doubt have to be.

Realistically, where is he gonna play for the first 2 if not 3 years? Certainly not in the guard/perimeter rotation of Rosenkranz, Johnson, and Dwyer. Nor on the wing with Morris, Lawson, and Schick. I'm probably even leaving out some additional players who will see minutes at the guard and wing positions ahead of him.

Lastly, as a stick at 6'3" and 165 lbs, he is really going to have to add some weight/muscle to avoid ending up as kindling wood in the CCIW fireplace.

From the standpoint of playing time on the basketball court, his choice seems odd, especially given the other schools he was considering.

In his freshman year Stephen played a grand total of 7 minutes all year. This season he played a total of 184 minutes, or 14.8 percent, out of an available total of 1240 minutes.
Chances seem high that he could have played a lot more than 7 minutes as a freshman, and  possibly even more this year had he attended another school.
And, as you stated, he unfortunately was injured when he did play this year --which my post that you referenced indicated was a distinct possibility.
Hopefully, he'll go through next season injury free, but with the addition of incoming frosh Miklasz and Zimmer, he may not even play as much as he did this year.

[Titan Q]

In his freshman year Stephen played a grand total of 7 minutes all year. This season he played a total of 184 minutes, or 14.8 percent, out of an available total of 1240 minutes.
Chances seem high that he could have played a lot more than 7 minutes as a freshman, and  possibly even more this year had he attended another school.
And, as you stated, he unfortunately was injured when he did play this year --which my post that you referenced indicated was a distinct possibility.
Hopefully, he'll go through next season injury free, but with the addition of incoming frosh Miklasz and Zimmer, he may not even play as much as he did this year.

Oh boy. 

Rudnicki broke his hand...that was the injury.  Before that he was in the rotation.  Played 19 minutes vs Carthage...

http://www.iwusports.com/custompages/MBB/MBB2010/HTML/iwmbb13.htm

Do you have a weight training program you can recommend so he can prevent it from happening again next season?  That would be appreciated.