MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Has anyone else wondered if Guzman ended the season in Bosko's doghouse?
After starting all season, he didn't do so in any of the final 5 games.
Perhaps our Carthage fans know if Bosko just wanted to go with a different skill set among the starters, or if Guzman's not starting was the result of either dissatisfaction with his play or disciplinary as a result of some rules infraction?

[CCIWFAN3]

Well if missing the team bus for a conference game was a sign...I'd say it wasn't for a different look.

[Gregory Sager]

His % from the 3 was actually good...but when a big has as many 3 point shot attempts/game as rebounds/game.....that's too much time camping out downtown.  Coaches sometimes wish there was a 3 second rule for post players networking in the cheap seats.

Guzman was a gunner in high school at Morton West. Shooting treys was his specialty, and it's the primary skill that he brought to the team last year to go along with his size. Because he's big and bulky and not very mobile, he's assumed to be an inside player by everyone who sees him (and, in fact, that's what he is on defense). But, offensively, he's not a post player; he's a perimeter player. Shooting treys is what he was recruited to do.

Has anyone else wondered if Guzman ended the season in Bosko's doghouse?
After starting all season, he didn't do so in any of the final 5 games.
Perhaps our Carthage fans know if Bosko just wanted to go with a different skill set among the starters, or if Guzman's not starting was the result of either dissatisfaction with his play or disciplinary as a result of some rules infraction?

I'm not privy to Bosko's rotation rationales, but I would hesitate to jump to any damning conclusions about Guzman based upon who was starting for Carthage and who wasn't. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that the emergence of Mitch Thompson had more to do with Guzman's demotion than anything else. After all, in seven of the last nine CCIW games that Guzman started, Thompson actually played more minutes while coming off the bench than Guzman did as a starter (in one game they played an equal number of minutes). By the time the playoffs rolled around, Guzman was being used as Pierce's defensive backup as much as anything else.

[AndOne]

GS--

Just askin' Thats why the ?

I don't picture Raul Guzman as a particularly effective defender. Not a whole lot of mobility there, especially lateral movement against a quicker opponent.

[CCIWFAN3]

G.S. I'd still rather have that body closer to the rim most of the time on the offensive end too.

[Gregory Sager]

GS--

Just askin' Thats why the ?

... and, again, in terms of Bosko's rationale re: Guzman's role on the team at the end of the season, you know as much as I do (i.e., not much). I'm just making a guess, because it's an interesting topic and the Carthage sleuths ain't talking on CCIW Chat today.

G.S. I'd still rather have that body closer to the rim most of the time on the offensive end too.

It's a body that doesn't get very far off the ground, though. And he doesn't really have a back-to-the-basket offensive game at this point in his career. His main value down low at the offensive end of the floor this past season seemed to be his ability to use his wide body to box out and set upscreens. Perhaps he'll develop into a more useful player in the low post on offense, but right now his main offensive value is his long-range shooting ability.

[Titan Q]

I'm not privy to Bosko's rotation rationales, but I would hesitate to jump to any damning conclusions about Guzman based upon who was starting for Carthage and who wasn't.

Edmond O'Callaghan started 24 of IWU's first 25 games last year...and then basically did not play at all in IWU's final 6 games (2 CCIW conference tournament games and 4 NCAA games).  O'Callaghan was not in Ron Rose's doghouse at all -- Rose just decided to go a different route at the 3/4 spots (John Koschnitzky starting at the 4 instead of backing up the 3...Matt Schick backing up the 3).  

During those final 6 games I heard a few IWU fans ask, "Is O'Callaghan in the doghouse?"  The Guzman question here reminded me of that.  I saw first-hand that it is possible to fall completely out of the mix and not be in the doghouse at all.

Watching Carthage in the conference tournament and then in the Sweet 16 game @ UW-Stevens Point, I thought Guzman was a liability on the floor.  I think Bosko just went with the more versatile player (Mitch Thompson), and the player more able to help the team win.  That's my guess at least.  Guzman needs to change his body if he wants to be a good CCIW player.

[RogK]

I wonder what the proper maximum height or weight is for guys who take a majority of their shots from behind the 3 point line.
Not having seen the Carthage men play in '09-'10, I'm limited to looking at Guzman's stats. He made 50/128 threes for .391, but that is the equivalent of making .586 on two point shots. He made 35 of 68 two point shots (.515) and hit 6 of 14 FTs. So, he had better value shooting-wise from distance than near the hoop.
Of course, if he played low post, he might have helped the offense more in the area of offensive rebounds. This is a judgment coaches have to make when deciding where to position their players, regardless of size.
Some fans might think it unusual for 65 pct of a big player's shots to be three point attempts, but that's not a real extreme. For a real extreme example, check out Jaimie Buckman of the Olivet Nazarene women's team. She's 6'1" (the equivalent of maybe 6'7" in the men's game), shot 238 threes and only 18 twos.

[Titan Q]

Another John Baines article...

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/sports/scheibe/2278884,4_2_JO16_BILLCOL_S1-100516.article

Baines: "Getting off the bus with the best players usually is the best way to win. But for us, I think we will still hit the (Joliet) area and we will still hit the South Suburbs, but I've really done a lot of downstate recruiting, and I even think we can hit the junior-college level, like in Michigan, and that sort of thing. There are a lot of avenues you can get to and be good. The part here that hasn't been hit as much is the downstate recruiting, and it was my forte at Elmhurst."


In all the years I have been following IWU basketball recruiting, never once have I heard Dennie Bridges or Scott Trost or Ron Rose mention St. Francis as a competitor for a recruit.  I'm positive that will soon change.  John Baines will be out there hitting it hard.

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking as a fan of a program that very rarely recruits anyone who lives south of Steger Road, I want to encourage John Baines to recruit downstate to his heart's content.

I wonder what the proper maximum height or weight is for guys who take a majority of their shots from behind the 3 point line.
Not having seen the Carthage men play in '09-'10, I'm limited to looking at Guzman's stats. He made 50/128 threes for .391, but that is the equivalent of making .586 on two point shots. He made 35 of 68 two point shots (.515) and hit 6 of 14 FTs. So, he had better value shooting-wise from distance than near the hoop.
Of course, if he played low post, he might have helped the offense more in the area of offensive rebounds. This is a judgment coaches have to make when deciding where to position their players, regardless of size.
Some fans might think it unusual for 65 pct of a big player's shots to be three point attempts, but that's not a real extreme. For a real extreme example, check out Jaimie Buckman of the Olivet Nazarene women's team. She's 6'1" (the equivalent of maybe 6'7" in the men's game), shot 238 threes and only 18 twos.

Good point, Rog, and I think that the flip side of this coin is that Guzman really isn't well-equipped to be a good inside scorer at this point in his career. He lacks the mobility and the low-post technique necessary for him to score against rival bigs in the CCIW, or at least he did as a freshman. As I said before, spot-up three-point shooting was what was expected of him this past year in terms of offense, regardless of the fact that he looks like someone who should be grinding out in-close shot attempts in the low post.

[AndOne]

Speaking as a fan of a program that very rarely recruits anyone who lives south of Steger Road, I want to encourage John Baines to recruit downstate to his heart's content.

I wonder what the proper maximum height or weight is for guys who take a majority of their shots from behind the 3 point line.
Not having seen the Carthage men play in '09-'10, I'm limited to looking at Guzman's stats. He made 50/128 threes for .391, but that is the equivalent of making .586 on two point shots. He made 35 of 68 two point shots (.515) and hit 6 of 14 FTs. So, he had better value shooting-wise from distance than near the hoop.
Of course, if he played low post, he might have helped the offense more in the area of offensive rebounds. This is a judgment coaches have to make when deciding where to position their players, regardless of size.
Some fans might think it unusual for 65 pct of a big player's shots to be three point attempts, but that's not a real extreme. For a real extreme example, check out Jaimie Buckman of the Olivet Nazarene women's team. She's 6'1" (the equivalent of maybe 6'7" in the men's game), shot 238 threes and only 18 twos.

Good point, Rog, and I think that the flip side of this coin is that Guzman really isn't well-equipped to be a good inside scorer at this point in his career. He lacks the mobility and the low-post technique necessary for him to score against rival bigs in the CCIW, or at least he did as a freshman. As I said before, spot-up three-point shooting was what was expected of him this past year in terms of offense, regardless of the fact that he looks like someone who should be grinding out in-close shot attempts in the low post.

As GS states, Guzman's background & experience leaves a deep void as far as BOTH low post scoring AND defense. He has little to no experience in either facet of the game. With regard to RogK's inquiry concerning the possibility of his securing a good number of offensive rebounds, we must remember that a large part of offensive rebounding technique involves the ability to both "read" the bounce of the ball off the backboard/rim and the ability to move quickly to that spot. As evidence of such, I offer Brian Evans of North Central as an example. At 6'3" he led the CCIW in offensive rebounding, within the conference, largely by being extremely capable of doing exactly those two things. He certainly did not garner his league leading total due either to his bulk or his height. Therefore, I think Carthage gets the most possible out of Guzman by positioning him outside and letting him do as much as possible of what he is best at which is long distance bombing.

[pgkevin]

Speaking as a fan of a program that very rarely recruits anyone who lives south of Steger Road, I want to encourage John Baines to recruit downstate to his heart's content.

I wonder what the proper maximum height or weight is for guys who take a majority of their shots from behind the 3 point line.
Not having seen the Carthage men play in '09-'10, I'm limited to looking at Guzman's stats. He made 50/128 threes for .391, but that is the equivalent of making .586 on two point shots. He made 35 of 68 two point shots (.515) and hit 6 of 14 FTs. So, he had better value shooting-wise from distance than near the hoop.
Of course, if he played low post, he might have helped the offense more in the area of offensive rebounds. This is a judgment coaches have to make when deciding where to position their players, regardless of size.
Some fans might think it unusual for 65 pct of a big player's shots to be three point attempts, but that's not a real extreme. For a real extreme example, check out Jaimie Buckman of the Olivet Nazarene women's team. She's 6'1" (the equivalent of maybe 6'7" in the men's game), shot 238 threes and only 18 twos.

Good point, Rog, and I think that the flip side of this coin is that Guzman really isn't well-equipped to be a good inside scorer at this point in his career. He lacks the mobility and the low-post technique necessary for him to score against rival bigs in the CCIW, or at least he did as a freshman. As I said before, spot-up three-point shooting was what was expected of him this past year in terms of offense, regardless of the fact that he looks like someone who should be grinding out in-close shot attempts in the low post.

As GS states, Guzman's background & experience leaves a deep void as far as BOTH low post scoring AND defense. He has little to no experience in either facet of the game. With regard to RogK's inquiry concerning the possibility of his securing a good number of offensive rebounds, we must remember that a large part of offensive rebounding technique involves the ability to both "read" the bounce of the ball off the backboard/rim and the ability to move quickly to that spot. As evidence of such, I offer Brian Evans of North Central as an example. At 6'3" he led the CCIW in offensive rebounding, within the conference, largely by being extremely capable of doing exactly those two things. He certainly did not garner his league leading total due either to his bulk or his height. Therefore, I think Carthage gets the most possible out of Guzman by positioning him outside and letting him do as much as possible of what he is best at which is long distance bombing.

I wonder if there is a post topic on this board that AndONe cannot relate to 6'3" BRian Evans of North Central.   

[AndOne]

And I, Kevin, am wondering why you insist on being both so petty and so critical. 

I think Brian is a perfect illustration of the point I was making. I'm sorry if you dislike hearing about him. Is your problem with Brian or with me? And why do you have a problem with either one of us? 
Perhaps you're just a hater?   

[AndOne]

I'm not privy to Bosko's rotation rationales, but I would hesitate to jump to any damning conclusions about Guzman based upon who was starting for Carthage and who wasn't.

Edmond O'Callaghan started 24 of IWU's first 25 games last year...and then basically did not play at all in IWU's final 6 games (2 CCIW conference tournament games and 4 NCAA games).  O'Callaghan was not in Ron Rose's doghouse at all -- Rose just decided to go a different route at the 3/4 spots (John Koschnitzky starting at the 4 instead of backing up the 3...Matt Schick backing up the 3).  

During those final 6 games I heard a few IWU fans ask, "Is O'Callaghan in the doghouse?"  The Guzman question here reminded me of that.  I saw first-hand that it is possible to fall completely out of the mix and not be in the doghouse at all.

Watching Carthage in the conference tournament and then in the Sweet 16 game @ UW-Stevens Point, I thought Guzman was a liability on the floor.  I think Bosko just went with the more versatile player (Mitch Thompson), and the player more able to help the team win.  That's my guess at least.  Guzman needs to change his body if he wants to be a good CCIW player.

I believe O'Callaghan was replaced in the lineup by a better player who Ron Rose thought gave his team a better chance to win. Furthermore, wouldn't the change  likely have come sooner if Koschnitzky didn't need as much time to recover after an injury?
If O'Callaghan started 24 of IWU's first 25 games then was replaced in the lineup and played a grand total of 2 minutes (in the last game of the season) in the last 6 games, he may not have been in the doghouse, but it seems like you could say he went from the penthouse to the outhouse, which is pretty similar to the doghouse!  

[pgkevin]

And I, Kevin, am wondering why you insist on being both so petty and so critical. 

I think Brian is a perfect illustration of the point I was making. I'm sorry if you dislike hearing about him. Is your problem with Brian or with me? And why do you have a problem with either one of us? 
Perhaps you're just a hater?   

Aww c'mon, in online lingo doesn't the wink face at the end of what you're saying indicate a joke.  I meant no harm or to be a"hater" just trying to have some fun.