MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[John Gleich]

Greg, 

Speaking of scrimmages, there will be an intriguing one this Sunday at Carthage.   Stevens Point is making the trek to Kenosha for an early evening contest.   Quite a lengthy bus ride for the Pointers but I'm sure they look at this (as does Carthage) as a chance to truly identify any early season weaknesses. 

Looking forward to attending as long as my plans don't change.

What time is this scrimmage?  I may have to drive up to Kenosha to see it.

[kenoshamark]

PointSpecial,

I was told 6:00 but please verify with your sources before you embark on the trip.  If you do plan to go let me know as I would obliged to say hi.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, 

Speaking of scrimmages, there will be an intriguing one this Sunday at Carthage.   Stevens Point is making the trek to Kenosha for an early evening contest.   Quite a lengthy bus ride for the Pointers but I'm sure they look at this (as does Carthage) as a chance to truly identify any early season weaknesses. 

Looking forward to attending as long as my plans don't change.

What time is this scrimmage?  I may have to drive up to Kenosha to see it.

UP to Kenosha?  Are you now in Chicagoland?  (I assumed you were still somewhere in central Cheeseland.)

[Gregory Sager]

I walked into the gym not quite sure what to expect last night. I walked out with a big smile on my face. Nevertheless, I am going to try to resist the urge to hype this team. I'm content to let others on this page trumpet the potential of their respective CCIW squads, while tamping down my public enthusiasm for the 2010-11 edition of the Park as much as possible. I think it's pretty obvious why: Nobody is going to give NPU any respect right now, and I'd kind of like for it to stay that way. Conversation about the CCIW both inside and outside of CCIW Chat is going to be all about Illinois Wesleyan and Carthage both being picked in the preseason top ten (if not the top five), and if anyone discusses anything else it'll most likely be Augie's Goliath brigade of a front line. I fully expect NPU to be picked possibly fourth, but more likely fifth, in the preseason poll by the CCIW coaches. And every last bit of hype of last year's first-division teams by d3hoops.com posters, Top 25 pollsters, and various coaches will add more fuel to NPU's fire. The more the Vikings feel snubbed, the better. Why should I ruin a good thing by touting the team prematurely?

I don't think it's really fair to say "nobody is going to give NPU any respect right now", Greg.  I don't see a lot of evidence of that.  Sure, there have not been a lot of posts about North Park's prospects for the upcoming season, but there haven't really been any about Carthage or Augustana or Wheaton either.  In terms of the 2010-11 season, there has only been detailed talk about IWU as far as I can remember...and that is because one poster (me) attended a few practices and posted observations.

When I say that "nobody is going to give NPU any respect right now" I'm referring to the immediate future. Obviously, as you pointed out, the only forecast of any type that's been posted about a CCIW team is yours regarding Illinois Wesleyan.

Despite the fact that North Park has not finished in the CCIW's upper half in 16 years, I have recently posted that I personally think it's pretty obvious that North Park should be the preseason #4 this year.  I think the Vikings return a very talented and deep nucleus.  I have North Park behind the team that won the league last year at 12-2 (and returns all but a role player starter), the team that went to the Elite 8 (and returns all 5 starters), and the team that finished 4th last year (and returns 4 of 5 starters), 2 games better than NPU.  I certainly don't view that as a lack of respect...and again, that is about all that has been put out there regarding NPU.  Now if the coaches vote Wheaton #4 and North Park #5 that might be something to get a little fired up about, but Wheaton does have a potential 1st Team All-American and several other solid players, and Wheaton has played in the conference tournament in each of the last 4 seasons.   

In terms of talk about IWU and Carthage (or "hype" as you put it), having followed this board since its inception, I believe every season that teams have returned as much talent as the 2010-11 Carthage and IWU teams do this year (from very good teams), they have been talked about quite a bit...and rightly so.  I don't see how it can be construed as disrespect to other teams in the league when people talk about the logical favorites on paper, or talk about certain teams as Top 25 candidates or whatever.  I certainly don't think it is any disrespect to Ripon or Lawrence to talk about St. Norbert as a potential Top 10 team this season.

The bottom line, I guess, is that if North Park's players feel disrespected ("snubbed"), and if that causes them to play better basketball this season, then it's significant.  But I don't see how it is logical right now for North Park's players to feel disrespected.

I think that you're kind of missing my point here, Bob, which is that my not promoting NPU's chances is a psychological ploy. Of course people are going to spend most of their time talking about Carthage, Illinois Wesleyan, and Augustana; those teams are going to be the preseason favorites, so it's only logical that they'll be monopolizing the conversation about the CCIW here and on the national boards. And of course NPU is going to have the decade and a half that it has been languishing in the second division hanging over its head until the program proves that it belongs with the big boys; that goes without saying, too, and I think that, along with the consistent success of Wheaton that you pointed out, NPU's lack of a resume since Bosko left town is going to be instrumental in the coaches picking Wheaton to finish ahead of the Vikings in this year's preseason poll.

I like the thought of the Vikings being hungry. I like the thought of them being the pursuer rather than the pursued. I think that a case can be made that, as you hinted at in your last paragraph, a team can gain an edge by feeling that it has something to prove to people who aren't taking it seriously enough. I'd like to see NPU gain that edge. Believe me, from talking to the players last night I learned that they're all very much aware of where Carthage and Illinois Wesleyan are likely to be ranked, and where North Park is likely to be viewed in both the coaches poll and the public perception. As I said, there's going to be fuel for their fire. I simply don't want to be the one to douse the fire.

As long as NPU doesn't use last years IWU/NCC football game as motivation I am fine with them feeling a little "snubbed".   

Now if they can find a way to use that game for motivation, I will be really impressed!

Me, too. But I get the distinct impression that the North Park men's basketball team is going to be a lot more likely to use last year's Elmhurst vs. Millikin volleyball match as motivation than last year's Illinois Wesleyan vs. North Central football game.

Greg, 

Speaking of scrimmages, there will be an intriguing one this Sunday at Carthage.   Stevens Point is making the trek to Kenosha for an early evening contest.   Quite a lengthy bus ride for the Pointers but I'm sure they look at this (as does Carthage) as a chance to truly identify any early season weaknesses. 

Looking forward to attending as long as my plans don't change.

What time is this scrimmage?  I may have to drive up to Kenosha to see it.

UP to Kenosha?  Are you now in Chicagoland?  (I assumed you were still somewhere in central Cheeseland.)

IIRC, Chuck, PS is a native of the western suburbs who merely went to school in central Cheeseland.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Thanks, Greg, for that upgrade in my knowledge about PS!

My earlier 'Lou Holtz' reference was because your post made it clear that YOU think NPU has the talent to be among the favorites, but hoped no one else would notice.  To keep the Vikings feeling snubbed, you seemingly would need to keep a cover on your belief that they are 'worthy'.  How can they feel snubbed if their most vocal supporter says they are that good?!

On the other hand, you certainly jump-started the Chat for the season - well played, maestro!

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks, Greg, for that upgrade in my knowledge about PS!

My earlier 'Lou Holtz' reference was because your post made it clear that YOU think NPU has the talent to be among the favorites, but hoped no one else would notice.  To keep the Vikings feeling snubbed, you seemingly would need to keep a cover on your belief that they are 'worthy'.  How can they feel snubbed if their most vocal supporter says they are that good?!

I think that that's a different thing altogether than what Holtz used to do, which was downplaying high public expectations for his team rather than downplaying high private expectations, or trying to maintain low public expectations.

On the other hand, you certainly jump-started the Chat for the season - well played, maestro!

And now for my next trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRW7pITY5Cg&feature=related

RIP Alex Anderson (1920-2010)

[Hardwood]

You gotta love this time of the year!!

[John Gleich]

Greg, 

Speaking of scrimmages, there will be an intriguing one this Sunday at Carthage.   Stevens Point is making the trek to Kenosha for an early evening contest.   Quite a lengthy bus ride for the Pointers but I'm sure they look at this (as does Carthage) as a chance to truly identify any early season weaknesses. 

Looking forward to attending as long as my plans don't change.

What time is this scrimmage?  I may have to drive up to Kenosha to see it.

UP to Kenosha?  Are you now in Chicagoland?  (I assumed you were still somewhere in central Cheeseland.)

IIRC, Chuck, PS is a native of the western suburbs who merely went to school in central Cheeseland.

And I live on the North Shore while I'm going to seminary so I'm only about 40 mins from Kenosha!

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, 

Speaking of scrimmages, there will be an intriguing one this Sunday at Carthage.   Stevens Point is making the trek to Kenosha for an early evening contest.   Quite a lengthy bus ride for the Pointers but I'm sure they look at this (as does Carthage) as a chance to truly identify any early season weaknesses. 

Looking forward to attending as long as my plans don't change.

What time is this scrimmage?  I may have to drive up to Kenosha to see it.

UP to Kenosha?  Are you now in Chicagoland?  (I assumed you were still somewhere in central Cheeseland.)

IIRC, Chuck, PS is a native of the western suburbs who merely went to school in central Cheeseland.

And I live on the North Shore while I'm going to seminary so I'm only about 40 mins from Kenosha!

Sounds like you can catch the North Park @ Lake Forest scrimmage on Nov. 6, too.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, 

Speaking of scrimmages, there will be an intriguing one this Sunday at Carthage.   Stevens Point is making the trek to Kenosha for an early evening contest.   Quite a lengthy bus ride for the Pointers but I'm sure they look at this (as does Carthage) as a chance to truly identify any early season weaknesses. 

Looking forward to attending as long as my plans don't change.

What time is this scrimmage?  I may have to drive up to Kenosha to see it.

UP to Kenosha?  Are you now in Chicagoland?  (I assumed you were still somewhere in central Cheeseland.)

IIRC, Chuck, PS is a native of the western suburbs who merely went to school in central Cheeseland.

And I live on the North Shore while I'm going to seminary so I'm only about 40 mins from Kenosha!

Would that be Garrett?  I would have gone there if I'd continued with my religion major, but became a sociologist instead.

[John Gleich]

Greg, 

Speaking of scrimmages, there will be an intriguing one this Sunday at Carthage.   Stevens Point is making the trek to Kenosha for an early evening contest.   Quite a lengthy bus ride for the Pointers but I'm sure they look at this (as does Carthage) as a chance to truly identify any early season weaknesses. 

Looking forward to attending as long as my plans don't change.

What time is this scrimmage?  I may have to drive up to Kenosha to see it.

UP to Kenosha?  Are you now in Chicagoland?  (I assumed you were still somewhere in central Cheeseland.)

IIRC, Chuck, PS is a native of the western suburbs who merely went to school in central Cheeseland.

And I live on the North Shore while I'm going to seminary so I'm only about 40 mins from Kenosha!

Would that be Garrett?  I would have gone there if I'd continued with my religion major, but became a sociologist instead.

Trinity in Deerfield

[Titan Q]

My preseason all-CCIW team...

(stats are from 2009-10 season, all games)

1st Team
Steve Djurickovic (Carthage), G/6-3/Sr - 24.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 7.3 apg, .410 3-pt
Tim McCrary (Wheaton), F/6-6/Jr - 18.2 ppg, 8.9 rpg, .542 FG
Kyle Nelson (Augustana), F/6-9/Sr - 14.7 ppg, 7.7 rpg, .602 FG
Derek Raridon (North Central), F/6-6/So - 21.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, .430 3-pt
Doug Sexauer (Ill. Wesleyan), C/6-7/Sr - 15.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, .621 FG

2nd Team
Zack Boyd (Elmhurst), G/6-3/Jr - 15.0 ppg, 5.4 rpg, .512 FG
Emmanuel Crosby (North Park), C/6-7/Jr - 9.9 ppg, 5.2 rpg, .570 FG
Jorge Gonzalez (North Park), F/6-5/Jr - 8.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg, .525 FG
Sean Johnson (Ill. Wesleyan), G/6-1/Sr - 17.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.1 apg, .414 3-pt
Tyler Pierce (Carthage), C/6-5/So - 12.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, .575 FG

3rd Team
Brian Evans (North Central), G/6-3/Jr - 7.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 2.0 apg, .586 FG
Travis Rosenkranz (Ill. Wesleyan), G, 6-0, Sr - 8.2 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 4.1 apg, 3.0 A:TO
Mitch Thompson (Carthage), F/6-6/So - 6.1 ppg, 4.9 rpg, .618 FG
Bryant Voiles (Augustana), F/6-9/Jr - missed all but 3 games due to injury
Jordan Zimmer (Ill. Wesleyan), F/6-5/Jr - 9.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg, .409 3-pt


Let me know if I've missed someone who is an obvious candidate.

Random thoughts after doing this...

* I really tried not to include 4 IWU players (I do realize that will get me in trouble here), but when I looked at all candidates, Zimmer seemed to be a little better preseason pick on paper than the final list of guys I looked at (Ro Russell, Brian DeSimone, Chris Anderson, and Andrew Jahns among a few others).  I doubt IWU will end up with 4 on the final team, but seems the Titans have 4 strong candidates going in...which is why they have a chance to be so good despite not having a Djurickovic or McCrary.

* If Millikin has a preseason all-CCIW player I would have no way to know who it is.

* Bryant Voiles is a flyer since he was hurt all of last year, but I see him having a big year.  Augie has several guys in my 3rd Team mix besides Voiles (DeSimone, Anderson, Kunz, Scarlata)...they are deep.

* I don't have any freshmen included.  There are so many good returning players that it will be hard for a FR to crack it this year.  Maybe one of the NCC guys since they will get the "tick."

* Wheaton usually has more than one all-CCIW player, but as far as the preseason goes, it's not clear if they have a 2nd or not.

* If Sean Johnson plays the way he did in IWU's final 7 games or so, he'll be a 1st Teamer.

[hopefan]

from what I saw of Sean Johnson in his visits to St Louis last year, anyone rated ahead of him must be VERY good... he was the best guard I saw .....

[Gregory Sager]

OK, since he's expecting it and nobody else has brought it up yet, I'll be the first:

Gee, Bob, only four Titans?  Nice show of restraint for not picking seven or eight of them.

As far as your picks are concerned, I think that they're mostly sound. I do disagree with a few of them, though. My observations:

* I'm not sure that Emanuel Crosby is going to be a second-teamer. That's not because he won't be good; in fact, I'm pretty sure that he'll be a more accomplished player at both ends of the floor than he was last season. However, the remarkable comeback of Phil Schniedermeier from his ACL tear last December is going to impact Crosby's playing time and numbers. It's one of those situations in which something that benefits the team -- having two high-caliber centers that'll give NPU forty minutes a game of strong production in the low post -- will somewhat impede the individual players concerned in terms of their personal accolades.

* Ro Russell is going to be an All-CCIW player this year. I'm pretty sure of that. Actually, I should qualify my statement a bit; whether Russell makes the team or not will likely be contingent upon NPU's success (or lack thereof) in CCIW games, but I'm very confident that at minimum he will play at a level that'll force the coaches to take him seriously as a candidiate. His defense is vastly improved, and he seems to have settled into his new role as a more distribution-oriented type of point guard.

* I find it very difficult to believe that Wheaton will not get its customary two slots on the All-CCIW team. Andrew Jahns, a steady if not spectacular performer who basically carried water for Kent Raymond and Ben Panner over the first three years of his career, will finally have a chance to shine in his own right. He's the most likely candidate, but Jeremy Pflederer could be the alternative guard to emerge as Tim McCrary's complementary scorer.

* Zack Boyd's a pretty good player and the most likely candidate to represent the Bluejays on the All-CCIW squad -- Sean Fendley seems to be the best alternative available at this point -- but I think that Elmhurst will only get a token third-team slot.

* If Millikin gets anybody on the team at all, I'm pretty sure it'll be Rodney Clark.

* I'm still waiting to hear from someone at Carthage as to whether or not Tyler Pierce is in game shape.

[dansand]

Here's Augie's scrimmage schedule:

Loras, Friday, October 29--6:15 pm (Dubuque, IA)
Intrasquad, Friday, November 5--2:30 pm (Carver Center)
UW-Platteville, Wednesday, November 10--6:00 pm (Carver Center)