MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[dansand]

Nice article in one of the local papers today on Bryant Voiles. As I've said many times, he's a unique player at the D3 level.

http://qctimes.com/sports/college/augustana/article_842b3d34-22b7-11e0-8a24-001cc4c03286.html

...although the picture is of Chris Anderson (?)...

[Gregory Sager]

The post by iwu70 had some pretty strong kudos towards the Titans:

Most outstanding game in a long long time by Sean Johnson

and a very solid, good game by Doug Sexauer.  Good to see.

That's more than simple relief that the two Titans stars are "back on track" -- you don't use the word "outstanding" in connection to re-established competence. And both comments absolutely beg for context, given that the opponent was Elmhurst and the game was in the Shirk Center.

I have not seen much "bragging" by anyone here, and I was going to let all this go by.  I've got to jump in here, though.  I don't think it's misreading Greg's comment about "re-established competence" as referring to Sean Johnson, with the implication that he--or perhaps he and Doug Sexauer, since Greg talks about the "two Titans stars"--have recently been less than competent.  If that's not the correct interpretation of what you wrote, Greg, please clarify.

First of all, HT, thanks for asking politely for clarification rather than making a knee-jerk hostile retort like TitansIWU's. (Not that I'd expect you to ever do something like that, since you certainly outdistance me and most of the rest of us here in terms of decorum.)

Again, this is all an issue of context -- and the context in this case is Chuck's attempt to defend iwu70 by downplaying what he did not view as iwu'70's bragging about the wins over Millikin and Elmhurst. My "re-established competence" line was a sarcastic jab at Chuck's downplaying ("simply relieved that Sean and Doug appear to be back on track"). It was written in a hyperbolic vein as an attempt to mimic Chuck's tone, and it was taken as such by Chuck. It's very much in keeping with the sort of jocular dialogue that Chuck and I carry on in this room and various other rooms on this site all the time.

(You'd have to ask Chuck what he meant by "back on track," but my guess is that it had something to do with Johnson's inconsistency over the first four CCIW games and the statistically negligible and injury-riddled start to the CCIW season for Sexauer.)

I can hardly believe that it's necessary for me to say this, but I've never characterized either Sexauer or Johnson as merely competent. I've been more critical of them than perhaps IWU fans care to see (e.g., the dialogue with Bob last year about Sexauer's ability to use his right hand), but I've never said or implied that they have become anything other than very good D3 basketball players. The surprising thing about this, HT, is that you yourself quoted the proof and seem to have missed its implication. And what's the proof that I was not seriously rendering Johnson and Sexauer as merely competent? Well, as you said, I referred to them as the "two Titans stars" ... and nobody refers to star players as "competent" in terms of it being an ongoing condition. If they were merely competent, they wouldn't be stars. QED.

[Gregory Sager]

GS wrtoe:
'....they did force Wheaton to get a lot more of its points from the FT line (where the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance went 17-20 on the night, the stat that best explains why the hosts won the game). "

The attempts Wheaton got in the game were 14 in the last 2 minutes and at least 12 of those were due to  stratgegy as NP was making 3's and immediately fouling anytime that Wheaton got possession.   This was the reasonable strategy given the SAD's ( ) performance this year at the free throw line. 

Wheaton's performance at the FT line this season has been perfectly adequate. The Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance came into the game averaging over 72% from the charity stripe, good for second in the league overall on the season (after Saturday night's games Wheaton moved ahead of Carthage into first place in all-games team FT shooting). The reason why NPU was fouling in the last few minutes was standard game strategy for a team that's trailing late in a winnable game: Foul to stop the clock and get the ball back. It didn't work, as Wheaton made eleven of those twelve free throws to which you referred, and that's how the hosts were able to stave off the NPU rally and win the game.

The wording of my post with reference to how Wheaton scored in the second half may have been unclear. My meaning was that Wheaton had to get more of its points on a percentage-wise basis from the line in the second half (17 out of 43 points, as opposed to 11 out of 37 points in the first half) when it was all said and done.

[TitansIWU]

Using my best attempt at hindsight as a means to sharpen my focus on the hyperbolic nature of your commentary, I would like to apologize for my rush to judgement, and also my post.

Much like you are a dedicated fan, and take the North Park athletics programs very seriously, I am also a huge fan of IWU basketball. I have admitted in past posts that I am certainly not at the level of many of the posters on here, but from time to time, I see posts that just hit my fan nerve. Yours was one of those, and I did offer a knee-jerk retort!

I can assure you that while my occasional posts may not be verbose, it is with a great degree of self-certainty I can assure you that it was an honest, well intended defense that I made based on what now appears to be an off-base judgement of your verbiage.

I wish your team the best of fortune this Saturday as IWU visits your campus. If I am able to make the trip, and I can even recognize you, I may shake your hand in person, as a show that I most definitely respect many of your posts and have certainly learned much from them over the years.

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks, TitansIWU. Apology accepted and appreciated.

If you do make the trip to the Windy City, stop by the broadcast booth (which is actually just a table in the top row of the south bleachers) in the crackerbox and say hello. I'm the smaller and hairier of the two NPU broadcasters.

[Hoosier Titan]

Thanks for the clarification, Greg.  Sarcasm and its gentler cousin, irony, sometimes don't translate perfectly to the printed page, er, screen.  Since I apparently failed to catch that, I apologize.  It did sound/read rather harsh, but I do accept that you didn't mean it harshly.

I probably reacted as I did because of the North Central game at Shirk, when both Johnson and Sexauer were playing in obvious pain.  They didn't produce much on the scoresheet, but I admired their willingness to tough it out for a home-court win (I could say an "all-important home court win" but we all know that so I don't have to ).  I think discussion of Sexauer's use of right and left hands is perfectly valid for discussion here; I'd be talking about it if I were from one of the other schools. 

So, that's all cleared up, right?  Is it time to sing "Kumbaya" now?    Peace.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Well, OK. Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya.

Done. Now go destroy Wheaton!   (Greg might even join me on a verse of this!

[Titan Q]

Home win = +0
Road win = +1
Home loss = -1
Road loss = +0


+/- Standings through 1/15
Augustana +2
Illinois Wesleyan +1
North Central +1
Carthage +0
Wheaton +0
Elmhurst -1
Millikin -1
North Park -2

(Usually takes +4 to win the title)


Wednesday, 1/19
North Central @ Carthage
North Park @ Elmhurst
Wheaton @ Illinois Wesleyan
Millikin @ Augustana

[wheels81]

GS wrtoe:
'....they did force Wheaton to get a lot more of its points from the FT line (where the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance went 17-20 on the night, the stat that best explains why the hosts won the game). "

The attempts Wheaton got in the game were 14 in the last 2 minutes and at least 12 of those were due to  stratgegy as NP was making 3's and immediately fouling anytime that Wheaton got possession.   This was the reasonable strategy given the SAD's ( ) performance this year at the free throw line. 

Wheaton's performance at the FT line this season has been perfectly adequate. The Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance came into the game averaging over 72% from the charity stripe, good for second in the league overall on the season (after Saturday night's games Wheaton moved ahead of Carthage into first place in all-games team FT shooting). The reason why NPU was fouling in the last few minutes was standard game strategy for a team that's trailing late in a winnable game: Foul to stop the clock and get the ball back. It didn't work, as Wheaton made eleven of those twelve free throws to which you referred, and that's how the hosts were able to stave off the NPU rally and win the game.

The wording of my post with reference to how Wheaton scored in the second half may have been unclear. My meaning was that Wheaton had to get more of its points on a percentage-wise basis from the line in the second half (17 out of 43 points, as opposed to 11 out of 37 points in the first half) when it was all said and done.

Wheaton only got 2 of 37 from the line in 1st half.  http://athletics.wheaton.edu/custompages/mbball/mbbstats/mwhe15.htm   They scored their points at the line in the second half due to standard stategy you explained above not that they HAD to get their points.   I guess I am not used to Wheaton shooting less than stellar at the line for it SEEMED  this year they struggled more than usual.

That being said.  I expect a good game from the thunder tonight in Bloomington.

[augie77]

If Augustana can get by Millikin and North Central this week (both at home) they will be 17-0, the best ever start by an Augie team.

[dansand]

If Augustana can get by Millikin and North Central this week (both at home) they will be 17-0, the best ever start by an Augie team.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. One game at a time Augie77.  

Yes, a win tonight would match the best start in school history, equaling the 1935-36 team. That team had a 6-11 center, Harry Mead. They still had the center jump after baskets and I think goaltending was still legal, so I imagine Harry was pretty valuable.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, a 16-0 start would be the best by a CCIW team since Wesleyan started 20-0 in '95-96.

[Titan Q]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, a 16-0 start would be the best by a CCIW team since Wesleyan started 20-0 in '95-96.

There was recently a blurb in the Pantagraph's From Pages Past about that IWU team...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/scoreboard/from_pages_past/article_df6f8162-1f9e-11e0-8481-001cc4c03286.html


IWU was ranked #1 and Wheaton #2 at the time of that game (not sure by who - it was pre-D3hoops.com).  To this today, that January 13, 1996 game vs Wheaton, capped by the Brady Knight to Chris Simich play, is the best game I've ever seen at the Shirk Center.

About 3 weeks later IWU traveled to Wheaton's Memorial Gymnasium - again, IWU #1 and Wheaton #2.  People were in line to get in at 5:00pm for the 7:30 game.  The JV game was played in front of a completely sold-out gym, and they had to turn people away at the door as early 6:15 or so.  Wheaton ended IWU's 20-game winning streak to start 1995-96 in another incredible game.  (Most IWU fans do not remember that the 1995-96 team - considered by many to be IWU's best non-Sikma team...and IWU's first Final Four squad - did not win the CCIW.  IWU finished 12-2 and Wheaton 13-1.)

Watching those IWU/Wheaton games in 1994-95 and 1995-96 are some of my favorite memories of following Division III basketball and IWU.  When I think of IWU vs Wheaton games in general over the course of the last 16 years or so, I can't remember many that were not incredible games, decided in the final minute.

[petemcb]

OK.  I'm putting the over/under on the Millikin/Augie game at 48 since I'm too late to get in on the CCIW Pick 'em.  What do you think?

[iwumichigander]

The post by iwu70 had some pretty strong kudos towards the Titans:

Most outstanding game in a long long time by Sean Johnson

and a very solid, good game by Doug Sexauer.  Good to see.

That's more than simple relief that the two Titans stars are "back on track" -- you don't use the word "outstanding" in connection to re-established competence. And both comments absolutely beg for context, given that the opponent was Elmhurst and the game was in the Shirk Center.

I have not seen much "bragging" by anyone here, and I was going to let all this go by.  I've got to jump in here, though.  I don't think it's misreading Greg's comment about "re-established competence" as referring to Sean Johnson, with the implication that he--or perhaps he and Doug Sexauer, since Greg talks about the "two Titans stars"--have recently been less than competent.  If that's not the correct interpretation of what you wrote, Greg, please clarify.

Sean Johnson has had a lot of great games this season.  He scored 35 against Monmouth and 34 against Dominican in November, and 29 against Wash U in December.  He was in obvious pain in the game against North Central, where he didn't score a lot, and so it was good from the Titan perspective to see him score 28, lead the team in rebounds with 6, have 7 assists to go with 1 turnover, and 2 steals.  I started this paragraph with the point of view that it was pretty much another Sean Johnson game, but iwu70 is right--it was an outstanding game, and more than "competent".  I'd applaud that performance no matter what team the player who put it up played for, and Greg usually is generous enough to applaud good play as well. 

Regarding iwu70's comment about Doug Sexauer, I don't see complimenting someone who scored 18 points for a "very good, solid game" as "bragging." 

Good points HT.  Greg - thanks for clarification.  But I can't let this pass with respect to Sean Johnson without pointing out his performance stats with Rosencranz sidelined:

Current season average FG% .436 (5.3-12);  3-Pt% .376 (2.4-6); Avg Min 31.6; APG 17.7
Game versus Elmhurst = FG% .786 (11-14);   3 Pt% .600 (3-5);      Min 37;   Pts 28

IMHO outstanding  --- against any opponent ---  the ball still needs to go in the hoop (even it it only counts two points)

[matblake]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, a 16-0 start would be the best by a CCIW team since Wesleyan started 20-0 in '95-96.

There was recently a blurb in the Pantagraph's From Pages Past about that IWU team...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/scoreboard/from_pages_past/article_df6f8162-1f9e-11e0-8481-001cc4c03286.html


IWU was ranked #1 and Wheaton #2 at the time of that game (not sure by who - it was pre-D3hoops.com).  To this today, that January 13, 1996 game vs Wheaton, capped by the Brady Knight to Chris Simich play, is the best game I've ever seen at the Shirk Center.

About 3 weeks later IWU traveled to Wheaton's Memorial Gymnasium - again, IWU #1 and Wheaton #2.  People were in line to get in at 5:00pm for the 7:30 game.  The JV game was played in front of a completely sold-out gym, and they had to turn people away at the door as early 6:15 or so.  Wheaton ended IWU's 20-game winning streak to start 1995-96 in another incredible game.  (Most IWU fans do not remember that the 1995-96 team - considered by many to be IWU's best non-Sikma team...and IWU's first Final Four squad - did not win the CCIW.  IWU finished 12-2 and Wheaton 13-1.)

Watching those IWU/Wheaton games in 1994-95 and 1995-96 are some of my favorite memories of following Division III basketball and IWU.  When I think of IWU vs Wheaton games in general over the course of the last 16 years or so, I can't remember many that were not incredible games, decided in the final minute.

The Pantagraph was right about the temperature at that game. I've been in cooler saunas.  Both of those games were outstanding.  Good fundamentals, insane defense, and just enough razzle dazzle to keep everyone interested.