MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

I do however stand up for the right to comment on coaching strategies and decisions, just maybe not on the coach personally.

If I disagree with Ron Rose's substitutions, it is my right to do that, as long as I don't get violent, be an outright a-- about it or denounce him personally.

I completely agree...which is why I have no desire to address coebball70's criticism of Ron Rose's substitutions patterns.  This is an internet message board where we debate things.  Questioning which players a coach puts on the floor, and when, is totally fair game.  

Now, I will agree with spencer1988, who points out that unless you are at practice everyday, and at every game, and have a perspective on what is going on with each and every player on the roster, it's pretty darn hard to have a good appreciation for why a coach does what he does.  But yes,  if a fan wants to challenge an X's and O's or personnel thing here....totally fair game.

What I do object to is a fan speculating on something he just has absolutely no clue about -- in this case, Bosko no longer having the passion.  To make a statement like that, you better be damn sure what you're talking about.

[TitansIWU]

I agree with you Q about the Bosko aspect. Not only because it's a "personal" shot at a coach, but also because it is so completely and grossly inaccurate.

I would also say that there are almost no fans who have the ability to be at every practice, at every game, and have a perspective on every player.

I just realized, I am doing what I hate most... I am debating about the right to debate on a debating based message board.

A debate I can no longer debate.

GO TITANS!

[bopol]

Three things about Carthage:

One, they are not a good rebounding team, period.  That has killed them all year and Bosko has made no secret that he realizes this is a problem.  I suspect that Nick Bauch getting more time (and last night David Mariani) is that Bosko wants someone who thinks his first job is to attack the boards.  Malcom Kelly is also attacking the boards more from the point guard position.  That said, you can't make up for the other big men (Pierce and Thompson) who are effective in other ways being poor rebounders.

Two, they don't have a good defensive player, which makes them easy to attack because there is always a mismatch.  That's where the loss of Hilton has hurt, but also the injury to Max Cary, who at least can match up with most good D3 players.  Bosko has been clearly searching for a Hilton like player, leaning on Cieski and Bennett, but they aren't Hilton.

Three, the team has been dealing with a lot of injuries.  Max Cary, when he has played this year, has been much worse than the last two years, so I am convinced he is playing hurt when he is playing.  Steve D isn't doing some of the things he did last year (attacking the basket as much), so it wouldn't surprise me that he is fighting through something (as commented before).  Raul Guzman could be a useful role player with his shooting ability, but has had back spasms.  I think Mike Frey is hurt (another potentially useful role player).  This has caused fiddling with the rotation and offensive and defensive schemes all year, which is a lot to ask of any coach.

Last night was a reminder of the potential of this team and Wednesday was a reminder of the disappointment.  

[CCIWchamps]

Quick side note: Tune in to WETN at halftime of Tuesday night's Wheaton-Augie women's match-up to catch a three-point shootout between Wheaton College President Dr. Philip Ryken and Wheaton men's head coach Mike Schauer who is one of the career leaders in three-point shooting in Wheaton history.  Tip-off of that game is at 7:30 so halftime should roll around close to 8-8:15.

Anyone know the line on this?

[cardinalpride]

Well tonight certainly clarifies and yet also muddies the CCIW tournament picture.  The easy thing to realize is that it's pretty much a given that we now have five teams vying for the top spots as I just can't see North Park making up that much ground and then having to actually pass the Thunder into the four spot as well.  Especially not with the schedule the Thunder have the last week of the regular season.

The muddying was done thanks to Bosko's crew who deserve their congratulations for showing a pulse tonight, which was questionable at times on Thursday night, and knocking off Augie.  With road games left at Wheaton, NCC, and IWU,  as well as North Central having to play Wesleyan again the loss tonight opens up possibilities for any of the top four to still have an outside chance of hosting.

Interesting you bring that up.  Each year I hope for a school in the Chicagland area to end up hosting the CCIW tournament because I have a hard time getting away to the Quad Cities or Bloomington for a weekend.  With last night's Augie loss comes the possibility of NCC hosting the tournament in the hangar with their limited on-the-floor seating and their substantial built-ins that feel about a mile and a half from the game.  Is there any possibility of them rolling in some additional bleachers behind the two team benches?  There always looks to be more than enough space back there for what would likely be a good-sized crowd.  AndOne?

Pete,
That's a distinct possibility! However, that's a decision that AD Jim Miller and Coach Todd Raridon would love to be able to make if and when NCC is in that position.  At this point, I would bet neither of them are thinking about seating accomodations for the CCIW Tourney. 

[RFMichigan]

"I don't know if the NAthCon's really any better this year than it has been in prior seasons. I suppose that it could be, but not markedly so. I think that our brethren in the NAthCon are the happy recipients of a singular set of circumstances: A worse-than-usual CCIW (whose current second-place team, North Central, got beat up pretty badly in non-conference play, including a 1-3 performance against NAthCon teams); a down year for both of the two local UAA teams; an HCAC that is pretty good but which is cannibalizing itself to a certain extent; and the lack of a breakout SLIAC team with a record good enough to overcome the liability of playing so many games against bad conference foes (Webster is 11-3 in regional play, but the Gorloks have a very modest OWP; they picked the wrong year to beat Wash U)."

(I wanted to post a reply to this earlier, but had some "snow stuff" to deal with. This is basically copied from the NathCon page.)

The NAC had a pretty decent out-of-conference record, but in no small part because of the large number of contributing seniors for many of the teams who have had some decent out-of-conference wins. Snelling, Licht (BU); Stark, Newton-Kemp (CUW); the Turleys (DU); Deacon, Meier (MSOE); Young, Gary, Morgan (CUC) come to mind.

I haven't looked at all the teams individually, but I know in the case of CUC, they played a few out-of-conference opponents this year who were more "middle of the pack"  or "bottom dweller" teams in their respective conferences rather than the cream of the conferences. Example: Rather than playing Dubuque, Westminster, Cornell, and Manchester as they did last year, CUC played Blackburn (terrible), Coe (currently 2nd in their conference, but whose conference may be down), Pomona-Pitzer (who's decent), and Concordia-Irvine. (Although CUI is certainly the best team they will play for the next five years with their five d-I transfers including a guy who who transferred from Duke by way of Villanova, plus a pair of Australians.)

This may be a one year phenomenon for the NAC, but who knows. The only way to really judge these things is to see if they can sustain quality non-conference records over a number of years. That being said, I think that CUW, if they survive the conference tournament, may be able to win a game in the regional tournament.

[bopol]

I'll add that, in retrospect, everything went right for Carthage in 09-10.  No injuries, good freshman that contributes immediately (Pierce and Guzman) and players that improved throughout the year (Kelly and Thompson), winning the close games.

This year, opposite.  Lot of injuries.  No major contributions from freshmen (though some show promise).  Lots of close losses (IWU, JCU, North Central and Augustana).

Thems the breaks, I guess.

[coebball70]

First of all, I would like to thank all of you who responded to my post about this year's coaching performance in the CCIW.  While it struck some as too personal, I ask what is this board for other than to exchange thoughts and observations about our favorite D3 basketball conference?  Using the term "passion" may not have conveyed what I wanted to, and for that I am sorry, but substituting "results" or "performance" would not have been as accurate as to what I have observed.  My daughter played varsity volleyball and graduated from Carthage in 2007.  I have followed the men's basketball program for ten years and I have watched the men's team play in person at least six games a year over that time.  After going 24 and 4 (conference games only) in 2001-03,  Coach D has a record of 57 and 51 including last year's championship.  I think all followers of Carthage basketball had greater expectations for this year's team.  Being 5 and 5 is a disappointment considering the Red Men lost so few players to graduation.

FWIW, I am happy that Carthage made the CCIW race just a little more interesting yesterday.  Congrats to Coach D.    

[bopol]

Coebball70, since you are a Carthage fan, what are your thoughts on what is/has gone wrong this year?  I have my opinions that I've posted here, but no one else has posted anything on Carthage in particular (as a whole, not singular opinions like Tyler Pierce shouldn't be on the perimeter ever). 

I'm hoping they roll through the last 4 and make the tournament.  It's possible to do that.

If they get to CCIW tournament and are moderately healthy, I think they can still win it.

[Viking Mike]

Dan,

I agree with you.  From my seat on the floor last night, Augie just did not attack on offense enough in the second half.  It seemed like they were content to just pass the ball around for 30 seconds and look for a rushed shot at the end of the shot clock.   Carthage used the zone to limit entry passes and create little space for our BIGS to maneuver.  It also allowed them to keep the rebounding deficit close.  Augie's transition game was also held in check.

On a night where we really needed a shooter to get hot, (DeSimone/Anderson/Voilles) we really didn't have anyone step forward.  I don't know it that would have forced the Red Men out of the zone anyway. Rorer did his best with his threes and Nelson was great as usual.  I knew this Carthage team was going to come in and play their best.  A 20 point loss to Wheaton at home???  A chance to beat an unbeaten and possibly salvage your season???  This one had me nervous all week.

It was encouraging to hear you say that the Vikings attacked North Park's zone well on Wednesday.
Are most teams playing zone against us for the above reasons?  Can we expect Wheaton to do the same or will they play man to man? 

Looking forward to watching how the rest of the season plays out, albeit with just a little more anxiety than before.  I hope Augie can find get back their offensive swagger in time for the Wheaton game.  They are capable of putting points on the board.  Also praying that Anderson finds his shot before the season is over.  I still think he is the X factor that could carry this team deep into the tourney.

[cciwrabblerouser]

Quick side note: Tune in to WETN at halftime of Tuesday night's Wheaton-Augie women's match-up to catch a three-point shootout between Wheaton College President Dr. Philip Ryken and Wheaton men's head coach Mike Schauer who is one of the career leaders in three-point shooting in Wheaton history.  Tip-off of that game is at 7:30 so halftime should roll around close to 8-8:15.

Anyone know the line on this?

Odds are 8:5 on the Prez winning.  I know Mike Schauer, and I know that he knows it's not wise to beat the guy who signs your checks.  So he might just be "off" a little.

[Titan Q]

http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.php?id=529636


It brought to a crashing halt what had been a magical run for Augie.

"Selfishly, that's what I'm happiest about tonight," said Carthage coach Bosko Djurickovic. "I don't root against anybody in the league and I hope Augustana or somebody from our league goes and wins the national championship, but there is a certain special pride in this league that nobody has been undefeated since (Augie in) 1973. It's one heck of a record and we're glad to be part of not letting that happen."

[74impala]

I'm always left confused after going to a Wheaton at North Park game.  What point is the student section trying to make when they chant "Daddy's money!".  Is it that as North Park students they pay for their own education and Wheaton students have parents to take care of the bills?   Or are they claiming that Wheaton costs more in general and all Wheaton students are rich? Or is it something else?

[Titan Q]

I'm always left confused after going to a Wheaton at North Park game.  What point is the student section trying to make when they chant "Daddy's money!".  Is it that as North Park students they pay for their own education and Wheaton students have parents to take care of the bills?   Or are they claiming that Wheaton costs more in general and all Wheaton students are rich? Or is it something else?

I watched the North Park video stream and also remember that -- I think it was while Tim McCrary was shooting FT's.  The color commentator, Mr. Sager, referred to it as "a socioeconomic statement."  (He said that light-heartedly, FYI.)

[Titan Q]

By the way, CCIW video streams are really great.  I watched North Central @ Millikin and Wheaton @ North Park Saturday, and last night watched the archive of IWU @ Elmhurst.  Wednesday I'll probably watch Augustana @ Wheaton.  It's just so different for an out-of-towner like myself to actually see the teams play, as opposed to just listening or looking at boxscores, etc.

I really wish my alma mater would get its act together on video streaming.  I can't think of a good reason Illinois Wesleyan isn't doing that.