MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

A series of bad calls against Wheaton tonight, starting with uncalled over the backs and culminating with a blatant intentional foul in the back during a break away dunk attempt  whistled as a shooting foul.  I can't think of how nice it is to be bigger and stronger than every team you face, and then to get to rough them up on top of it.  Wheaton did not catch any breaks from the stripes tonight.    

I watched the game on WETN as well, and really did not see those over-the-back fouls the WETN broadcasters made such a big deal out of.  To me, those simply looked like situations where Augustana players were taller.  I was also not sold on that Augie basket near the shot clock buzzer that they kept referring to as a blown call.  It was close, but I'd have to see it again.

The biggest call that went against Wheaton was the blatant intentional foul by Chris Anderson on Jon DeMoss.  Wheaton should have had the ball after those FT's.  It's hard to believe they did not call that...if that is not an intentional foul, I'm not sure what is.  (In the background of the screen, it seemed like tempers were really flaring between the Wheaton coaching staff and Augustana's...can anyone comment on what was going on there?)

I watched the game with the sound off (I turned on the sound at the end after the NPU @ NCC game was concluded), and I have to agree with you, Bob. Those looked like good no-calls to me; Augie simply used its height and length to get to rebounds over the heads of Wheaton players before the Wheaton players could reach them. Nor did I agree with the Wheaton announcers about that Augie basket at the shot-clock buzzer. That could've gone either way, but it looked as though the refs made the right call. The WETN broadcasters were paying a visit to Homerville tonight, but I can't say that I blame them. Augie does that to opposing fans. It doesn't take long before everything Augie does looks like a foul.

The blown call on DeMoss's layup, though, was a bad one. That clearly should've been an intentional foul on Anderson. Mike Schauer was so steamed about it that he mentioned it in the WETN postgame show. I can't remember the last time that I saw a CCIW coach single out a bad call in a print or broadcast interview.

[CCIWchamps]

A series of bad calls against Wheaton tonight, starting with uncalled over the backs and culminating with a blatant intentional foul in the back during a break away dunk attempt  whistled as a shooting foul.  I can't think of how nice it is to be bigger and stronger than every team you face, and then to get to rough them up on top of it.  Wheaton did not catch any breaks from the stripes tonight.    

I watched the game on WETN as well, and really did not see those over-the-back fouls the WETN broadcasters made such a big deal out of.  To me, those simply looked like situations where Augustana players were taller.  I was also not sold on that Augie basket near the shot clock buzzer that they kept referring to as a blown call.  It was close, but I'd have to see it again.

The biggest call that went against Wheaton was the blatant intentional foul by Chris Anderson on Jon DeMoss.  Wheaton should have had the ball after those FT's.  It's hard to believe they did not call that...if that is not an intentional foul, I'm not sure what is.  (In the background of the screen, it seemed like tempers were really flaring between the Wheaton coaching staff and Augustana's...can anyone comment on what was going on there?)

I thought Augustana was clearly the better team.  They controlled the entire game, except for that little stretch right at the end where Wheaton got it down to 1.  I thought Troy Rorer was Augie's player of the game.  I have not seen a boxscore, but he knocked down a ton of FT's -- I know he is supposed to be a bad FT shooter, but he looked like Steve Alford at the line tonight.  Just a really pure-looking stroke.  Bryant Voiles hit 3 very big 3's in the 1st half as Augustana was taking command of the game.  He is a really good player.

Wheaton freshman Tyler Peters really made a terrible mistake late.  After a Wheaton basket cut it to 1 with about :40 to play, he intentionally fouled an Augustana player (DeSimone I think) -- not just fouled him when he did not need to, but did not even fake going for any part of the ball.  With :40 to play, down just 1, there was just no reason to do it.  

Wheaton fought hard, but this was really a physical mismatch.  As usual, Augustana is not a pretty team to watch, but they really make it hard on the opponent to get stuff done.

There was one no-call in the 2nd half where McCrary got taken to the ground from behind during a rebound, and he's pretty tall.  I think the one over Jahns gets overlooked, but over McCrary takes some doing.

It was good to see Augie in person, and like you said, they're not a pretty team.  They play solid, hustle D.  I felt smothered for the Wheaton guys. 

As for the coaching staff interaction, I'm still waiting to hear that as well.  From my angle it looked like there might have been words exchanged in the immediate moments right after the foul took place while everyone else was watching DeMoss roll around.  By the time the Wheaton staff was yelling, it was hard to know what had set them off.  Giving the ref an earful is common, but giving it to the other team's coaches is much more rare, especially in Wheaton's case.  I'd be curious what people closer to that side of the gym saw or heard. 

The shot clock beater that Wheaton gave up with under 5 to play was another dagger.  34 seconds of good D followed by a total lapse.  In the gym it seemed like the airball went up with about 2 seconds, followed by a rebound/pass/catch/turnaround jumper- which seems like a lot for 2 seconds.  For all of this talk of streaming games online, I kept looking around the gym for the jumbotron to see the replay!  Either way, the swish was a punch to gut and about all I could take.  Kudos to Wheaton for scrapping back into it in spite of this.

I'm glad Wheaton game them a run for their money.  If they can hang in long enough to make the tourney....

[Pat Coleman]

Back to the broadcasting thing -- Ustream offers free video streaming. It's not bad.

[AndOne]

quote author=TitansIWU link=topic=4592.msg1294987#msg1294987 date=1297290919]

Well like always "nothing that makes sense EVER gets done at Elmhurst."  Don't count on the website.  It is rarely ever accurate.

I think NPU has a very good shot tonight.

I think NPU will pull off an upset tonight.

I do too and don't view  it as an upset.

79jaybird & Titans IWU----

Could you please explain the reasoning behind your feelings about the result of tonight's NPU at NCC game?

79jaybird--

Define upset. Given the fact NCC is 7-2 so far in CCIW conference play as opposed to NPU's 3-7 record, coupled with the fact that NCC defeated NPU by 12 at NPU earlier, would a NPU victory not be considered an "upset"--at least a mild one?

Given the generally highly competitive nature of the CCIW, which we have just about all commented on at one time or another, perhaps few game results could be considered an "upset." I know Carthage fans will disagree, but I think think Carthage victory over Augie the other night was an upset. Also, it seems a Millikin win against anyone at this time could be considered an upset. 

2nd place NCC has to be considered the league's biggest "surprise" so far by almost everyone other than the NCC coaches, players, and fans. However, no remaining game can be considered a gimme, and, dare I say, NCC is likely widely considered the underdog in at least a couple of their remaining games.
Should they fail to give maximum effort in either the physical or mental aspect of a game in any of their remaining contests, they can easily be subject to defeat---whether or not you might consider it an "upset."

North Park is capable of beating NCC, and my feelings might be jaded by wanting to see it happen which would be good for IWU.

I have seen North Park play a few times this year, have read all of Mr. Sager's comments, and looked at the box scores of their other games. It seems to me that when this team is functioning as a unit, they play rather well for 5 minute bursts and sometimes more. There will come a night whether it is this year or next that they all put the "team" together and are able to convincingly beat a team like NCC which is young and may not be expecting it as much as a group of seniors who have seen what can happen in the CCIW for four years.

It is not an attempt to diminish the talent of NCC, they are a really good group. I just think North Park will put it together and when they do, they will be really hard to deal with.

And I hope it is tonight!

You and me both. Unfortunately, I have reached the point where I no longer expect this particular group of players to muster forty minutes of consistent basketball against anybody, be it a freshman-dominated opponent or not. I think that the coaching staff has to make something of a concerted effort to bring in fresh faces next season who are capable of playing together as a team, because this current group simply is not progressing in terms of team-oriented basketball -- and they are no longer young. It's a junior-dominated team in which most of the regulars have played either two seasons now or three in a North Park uniform. I'm pessimistic that they're going to figure it out somewhere down the road, much less tonight. It's a team that very badly needs a couple of guys in the vein of Brian Evans, Troy Rorer, or Max Cary.
[/quote] 

Greg----

A couple of things I noticed in watching the Vikings tonight that are not reflected in the stats, but I believe may be directly related to some of the team's ills that you have previously detailed this season. I wondered if you have also noticed either of these things?
Having learned, I'll leave the players names out.

1. One of the starters seemed to continually be criticizing his teammates on the floor. He bitched other players out for things like not setting a screen the way he thought it should be set, not helping him on defense, and taking a shot rather than passing (him?) the ball. I noticed the same player doing this when NCC played at NP.

2. Another (non starter) who was often telling his teammates what to do/where to go on the floor. As the coaches had not ever yelled in any instructions just prior to this player's directives, its doubtful he was passing along info from the bench. Rather, it appeared he was attempting to fill the role of a player-coach on the floor!
Makes it appear that the head coach and staff don't have control of the team when players are criticizing each other on the floor and telling others what to do rather than carry out the coaches strategy. Comments?   

[Titan Q]

2. Another (non starter) who was often telling his teammates what to do/where to go on the floor. As the coaches had not ever yelled in any instructions just prior to this player's directives, its doubtful he was passing along info from the bench. Rather, it appeared he was attempting to fill the role of a player-coach on the floor!
Makes it appear that the head coach and staff don't have control of the team when players are criticizing each other on the floor and telling others what to do rather than carry out the coaches strategy. Comments?  

I think when things are going well for a team, the "coach on the floor" guy is celebrated and perceived as a "leader."  When things aren't going so well, that guy is criticized and turns into a "problem."

[Viking Mike]

Congratulations to Coach Giovanine on his 300th college coaching win last night at Wheaton.

CCIW fans can say whatever they want about him, but his passion for the game is tremendous and he brings a demeanor to the game that seems to mirror his teams...... tough and relentless.  The Vikings are not the smoothest team to watch, but you can never question the heart of Augie or their coach. 
Glad he coaches the good guys!!!

Great win for the Vikings last night. 3 to go!

[dansand]

Very interesting game in Wheaton last night. Great road win for the Vikes. The first they've gotten at Wheaton since Chris & I started doing the games. Also, congrats to Coach G on his 300th career win. Thunder really hit some huge shots down the stretch to cut into the lead, but Augie did a nice job at the free throw line to hang on to the lead.

On the two questioned calls, my view was the opposite of Q and Greg's on both. I honestly thought Troy's (Rorer) buzzer-beater was late and said so on the webcast. I didn't think Chris Anderson's was an intentional foul, though. I haven't seen a replay, but he didn't undercut DeMoss, push him in the back or tackle him. I thought he went up and challenged the ball at the rim. I think it looked worse because DeMoss landed awkwardly. I'm sure some folks will disagree (and already have), but that's what it looked like to me sitting courtside.

[augie22]

I agree with dansand on the Anderson play from behind.  Being at the game and having a good angle of the foul it seemed apparent that Anderson played the ball.  Personally, I thought DeMoss launched early towards the rim to dunk it and was knocked off balance as Anderson fouled him.  Then when DeMoss tried to flush it he let go of the rim at an awkward time which resulted in his unusual fall to the ground.  If you have seen Augie play a bunch this year you would know that Anderson has a tremendous vertical and probably figured he could make a play from behind.  It just so happened that the foul was from behind and when someone falls like that it is natural for people to get upset, but I don't think it was reckless.  However, after the DeMoss was on the ground it seemed as though the Wheaton bench wanted to comment to the Augie bench that it was a deliberate foul and something that is taught by the staff.  For the most part Augie coaches didn't comment back but it seemed as though there might have been another exchange following the game that was more colorful....and amusing!

[Gregory Sager]

2. Another (non starter) who was often telling his teammates what to do/where to go on the floor. As the coaches had not ever yelled in any instructions just prior to this player's directives, its doubtful he was passing along info from the bench. Rather, it appeared he was attempting to fill the role of a player-coach on the floor!
Makes it appear that the head coach and staff don't have control of the team when players are criticizing each other on the floor and telling others what to do rather than carry out the coaches strategy. Comments?  

I think when things are going well for a team, the "coach on the floor" guy is celebrated and perceived as a "leader."  When things aren't going so well, that guy is criticized and turns into a "problem."

Precisely. Well stated, Bob.

CCIW fans can say whatever they want about him, but his passion for the game is tremendous and he brings a demeanor to the game that seems to mirror his teams...... tough and relentless.  The Vikings are not the smoothest team to watch, but you can never question the heart of Augie or their coach. 
Glad he coaches the good guys!!!

That last sentence caused such an eye-roll that I gave myself a headache.

Giving the ref an earful is common, but giving it to the other team's coaches is much more rare, especially in Wheaton's case.

However, after the DeMoss was on the ground it seemed as though the Wheaton bench wanted to comment to the Augie bench that it was a deliberate foul and something that is taught by the staff.  For the most part Augie coaches didn't comment back but it seemed as though there might have been another exchange following the game that was more colorful....and amusing!

What is truly colorful and amusing to me, as an NPU fan with no dog in this fight, is Wheaton and Augie fans engaging in dueling neener-neener-neeners as to whose coaches behave themselves and whose coaches don't.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Quote from: Viking Mike on Today at 09:07:45 am
CCIW fans can say whatever they want about him, but his passion for the game is tremendous and he brings a demeanor to the game that seems to mirror his teams...... tough and relentless.  The Vikings are not the smoothest team to watch, but you can never question the heart of Augie or their coach. 
Glad he coaches the good guys!!!

response from GS
That last sentence caused such an eye-roll that I gave myself a headache.

I laughed so hard after reading both these paragraphs I got a headache.

A team mirrors a coach - not vice versa.  Kudos to the Augie coach for getting his team to play hard - but he is still an A$$ on the floor.

[Hardwood]

Hmm? I guess I'd start calling other coaches "A$$"es if the program I rooted for hadn't won a conference championship in 24 years.  Ya, in know, you've got 5 "Bosko" banners but he's at another school now, and most of us weren't alive when that happened!! 

[Gregory Sager]

"Ya, in know"?

Is that some sort of obscure Yooper dialect? Do we have an actual Finlandia fan present in the room?

[79jaybird]

Hardwood,

There was a time and yes it may have been a long time ago, but North Park was the big dog on campus and their Nat'l Champ trophies say it all.  Plus their bball Alums are great people/teachers of the game.  I had one of their Alums coach me and went to school with his daughters.

Grey is an approachable, good hearted person.  He gets emotional on the court and upset when his players don't execute and/or doesn't get the right call.  That could be said for most coaches in the world, that commit to winning.

I have had passive coaches and fiery coaches,  and I will take the fiery one any day.  Looking back,  the successful teams I was on, had emotional coaches.

Is Elmhurst going to win another game this year?  Yikes,  what do they have to do to get back to some kind of respectability?

[TitansIWU]

but he is still an A$$ on the floor.

Wasn't this a YouTube sensation recently?

Oh wait, never mind, that was Pants on the Ground.

[79jaybird]

ya and in know.

Hmm,  I think I saw two Utes running by.

You would think your college would have taught you some better grammar.