MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Very interesting game in Wheaton last night. Great road win for the Vikes. The first they've gotten at Wheaton since Chris & I started doing the games. Also, congrats to Coach G on his 300th career win. Thunder really hit some huge shots down the stretch to cut into the lead, but Augie did a nice job at the free throw line to hang on to the lead.

On the two questioned calls, my view was the opposite of Q and Greg's on both. I honestly thought Troy's (Rorer) buzzer-beater was late and said so on the webcast. I didn't think Chris Anderson's was an intentional foul, though. I haven't seen a replay, but he didn't undercut DeMoss, push him in the back or tackle him. I thought he went up and challenged the ball at the rim. I think it looked worse because DeMoss landed awkwardly. I'm sure some folks will disagree (and already have), but that's what it looked like to me sitting courtside.

I think the key phrase in Dan's post is the one I highlighted above.
HE was the one "sitting courtside."  

[AndOne]

2. Another (non starter) who was often telling his teammates what to do/where to go on the floor. As the coaches had not ever yelled in any instructions just prior to this player's directives, its doubtful he was passing along info from the bench. Rather, it appeared he was attempting to fill the role of a player-coach on the floor!
Makes it appear that the head coach and staff don't have control of the team when players are criticizing each other on the floor and telling others what to do rather than carry out the coaches strategy. Comments?  

I think when things are going well for a team, the "coach on the floor" guy is celebrated and perceived as a "leader."  When things aren't going so well, that guy is criticized and turns into a "problem."

Precisely. Well stated, Bob.

I agree an outspoken player can certainly be a "coach on the floor." However, in this case, the player in question was not yelling at his teammates in a helpful/instructional manner, but angrily, as if he was the only one who knew how to run the play. Also, as I pointed out originally, it wasn't after his hearing a coach yell any instructions and him merely passing the info on to the other players.
Knowing Greg sees many of the NPU games, I was simply asking HIM if he had observed any of this type of bickering within the Vikings over the course of this season.
The question was asked in the vein of perhaps partially explaining the cause of the athletically gifted Vikings obviously not living up to the potential they seemed to possess at the beginning of the season. 

[AndOne]

Hmm? I guess I'd start calling other coaches "A$$"es if the program I rooted for hadn't won a conference championship in 24 years.  Ya, in know, you've got 5 "Bosko" banners but he's at another school now, and most of us weren't alive when that happened!! 

"Bosko" banners?   
I thought the championship banners hanging in the crackerbox belonged to North Park University. I wasn't aware they were Bosko's property.

[AndOne]

Quote from: Viking Mike on Today at 09:07:45 am
CCIW fans can say whatever they want about him, but his passion for the game is tremendous and he brings a demeanor to the game that seems to mirror his teams...... tough and relentless.  The Vikings are not the smoothest team to watch, but you can never question the heart of Augie or their coach. 
Glad he coaches the good guys!!!

response from GS
That last sentence caused such an eye-roll that I gave myself a headache.

I laughed so hard after reading both these paragraphs I got a headache.

A team mirrors a coach - not vice versa.  Kudos to the Augie coach for getting his team to play hard - but he is still an A$$ on the floor.

but he is still an A$$ on the floor.

Wasn't this a YouTube sensation recently?

Oh wait, never mind, that was Pants on the Ground.

The game................Jeopordy
The category...........DIII coaches
The question...........What DIII coach combines great coaching ability with
                                "demonstrative" on court behavior to instantly conjure
                                up an image of former bad boy DI coach Bobby Knight?

My favorite Grey Giovanine observation was a few years ago near the end of a game at Augie when, vehemently protesting a foul call, Giovanine rushed onto the court, ripping off his sport coat as he charged. When he got the coat off, he grabbed it by the end of one sleeve and twirled it round and round over his head like a lasso, all the while screaming at the ref and stomping his foot on the floor. By the time he concluded his performance, he was standing almost at center court. He was so out of control, I was worried he was going to have a stroke.   
At the conclusion of the game he chased the refs off the court and down the hall,  still screaming unflattering remarks in their direction until they reached the safety of the locker room
                               

[robberki]

Hmm? I guess I'd start calling other coaches "A$$"es if the program I rooted for hadn't won a conference championship in 24 years.  Ya, in know, you've got 5 "Bosko" banners but he's at another school now, and most of us weren't alive when that happened!! 

well, I guess it comes down to that age old debate of whether it's better to have loved and lost rather than never loved at all?

[shepherd]

Very interesting game in Wheaton last night. Great road win for the Vikes. The first they've gotten at Wheaton since Chris & I started doing the games. Also, congrats to Coach G on his 300th career win. Thunder really hit some huge shots down the stretch to cut into the lead, but Augie did a nice job at the free throw line to hang on to the lead.

On the two questioned calls, my view was the opposite of Q and Greg's on both. I honestly thought Troy's (Rorer) buzzer-beater was late and said so on the webcast. I didn't think Chris Anderson's was an intentional foul, though. I haven't seen a replay, but he didn't undercut DeMoss, push him in the back or tackle him. I thought he went up and challenged the ball at the rim. I think it looked worse because DeMoss landed awkwardly. I'm sure some folks will disagree (and already have), but that's what it looked like to me sitting courtside.

I don't care about what type of  foul the Jon DeMoss play was.  I care that the Coaches and players talk out any disputes after the game.  Shake hands and then whatever happened is done.  No talk of revenge the next time they play it is simply over.   We have something very special in D3 sports.  The high quality of competition and good sportsmanship is rarely seen in sports today. 

[AndOne]

The North Central Cardinals were lucky to be leading North Park at halftime last night after playing what I would describe as a "disjointed" 1st half, a sentiment echoed by several other fans and Cardinal parents when we were discussing things at halftime.
The Cards just didn't seem to have it together in the opening stanza. It was almost like they weren't sure of themselves and/or were playing in slow motion. They were not playing an aggressive, attacking style. I sure hope they weren't taking a victory for granted just because they had previously beaten the Vikings at their place.
Fortunately, the Cardinals got it together in the 2nd half and carried the play.
They were led by Kevin Gillespie with 19 points on 5 three pointers and 4/4 from the line. Gillespie hit 3 of his 5 treys in the 1st 6 minutes of the 2nd stanza, after which the Cards led 46-40. Shortly thereafter, the  home team led 50-45 when Derek Raridon scored 7 points in just over a minute to extend the Cards advantage to 57-45 with 8:01 remaining. NPU mounted a comeback to trail only 65-60 at the 2:44 mark, but the Cards clamped down and held the visiting Vikings scoreless the rest of the way. During that time, CJ Goldthree scored inside on a layup and Gillespie and Brian Evans each went 2/2 from the line to account for the 71-60 final margin of victory.
In addition to Gillespie's 19 points, Raridon contributed 17, and Goldthree added 13 off the bench. Landon Gamble was held to 9 points after tallying at least 20 in each of his last 3 games. Mr. Senior Leadership, Brian Evans, contributed 8 points and game highs in both rebounds with 9, and assists with 5. Not often do you see the same player having game high totals in that combination of stats.     
The Cardinals won the rebounding battle 35-28, had 17 assists on their 21 made baskets, and committed only 5 turnovers for the entire game.

[CCIWchamps]

I don't care about what type of  foul the Jon DeMoss play was.  I care that the Coaches and players talk out any disputes after the game.  Shake hands and then whatever happened is done.  No talk of revenge the next time they play it is simply over.   We have something very special in D3 sports.  The high quality of competition and good sportsmanship is rarely seen in sports today. 

Is there more on this?  I am unclear to what you are referring to, though I'm very interested.

[CCIWchamps]

Hmm? I guess I'd start calling other coaches "A$$"es if the program I rooted for hadn't won a conference championship in 24 years.  Ya, in know, you've got 5 "Bosko" banners but he's at another school now, and most of us weren't alive when that happened!! 

"Bosko" banners?   
I thought the championship banners hanging in the crackerbox belonged to North Park University. I wasn't aware they were Bosko's property.

Ha!   

[WheatonFanChris]

Just want to add to the Augie/Wheaton convo.

- I agree for the most part on the over the back noncalls. Most were legal Augie rebounds, although there was one time Jahns was pushed to the ground and no call.

- One thing that really killed the Thunder in the first half was Nate Haynes picking up 3 quick and mostly unnecessary fouls. That really made Schauer adjust the rotation and in my opinion exhausted Schultze.

- On the offensive end, Wheaton has improved greatly in scoring balance. Until about a week ago it was either all Jahns, or all Jahns and McCrary, but the supporting cast has really started to step up.

- Regarding the Demoss call, I was no more than 35 feet from the foul and I am really not sure how it can be argued it wasn't intentional. A defenseless player being pushed from behind, and no clear attempt on the ball. Regardless of the injury, that's two shots and the ball.

- Regarding the heat between the benches, I was in the second row opposite the Thunder bench, and could hear Schauer et al asking the officials how they did not hear "them" telling him to do it. Whether this is what actually happened I do not know, but that's what I heard. After the game and after Schauer had departed for his postgame interview, Coach G and Owen Handy had quite a talk, not sure of the content, but it was heated.

- I'd like to ask Q and Mr. Sager what they saw on the Peters intentional foul. Again, I was no more than 15 feet from that play, and as the whistle blew Tyler was reaching in to try to strip the inbound pass. I saw no intentional foul, but I guess I could have missed something? I guess I'd just like clarity for my own sake! To say that changed the course of the finish is a huge understatement.

- I'm proud of the Thunder for how they fought when they could have easily thrown in the towel in the second half in a touch match up physically. Especially after the Demoss debacle, there was a new fire in the way they played. Hopefully we will see that for 40 minutes in a must win Saturday night!

[iwu70]

Well, we're down to the final two weeks.   Some great games upcoming.  Needless to say, I think it's pretty necessary for the Titans to win out.  Otherwise, come selection time there are just too many doubts, uncertainties as usual around the Pool C bids.  21-6 or 22-5 would be grand.  Very much looking forward to the Wheaton and NCC games . . . and to watching the IWU women go for another CCIW championship at Wheaton this Saturday, as well.   23-4 sounds good for the women, or 22-5 to enter the DIII dance.  Wish I could be there in person, but will be watching the video streams -- Sunday morning in HK.  Good luck Titans . . . keep it rolling.

Am still of the mind that it is time for seniors to prove their experience and worth, feel the urgency -- esp. for Hope Schulte and Doug Sexauer to lead their respective teams home to the DIII dance and come up big in the remaining regular season and CCIW tournament games. 

[74impala]

While I can't second guess Chris Anderson's intent, the foul committed on DeMoss sure appeared flagrant.   The picture published in today's Wheaton Record confirmed that opinion.  It shows DeMoss in flight with Anderson still on the ground.  Anderson's arm is in John's back.

[pgkevin]

Quote from: Viking Mike on Today at 09:07:45 am
CCIW fans can say whatever they want about him, but his passion for the game is tremendous and he brings a demeanor to the game that seems to mirror his teams...... tough and relentless.  The Vikings are not the smoothest team to watch, but you can never question the heart of Augie or their coach. 
Glad he coaches the good guys!!!

response from GS
That last sentence caused such an eye-roll that I gave myself a headache.

I laughed so hard after reading both these paragraphs I got a headache.

A team mirrors a coach - not vice versa.  Kudos to the Augie coach for getting his team to play hard - but he is still an A$$ on the floor.

but he is still an A$$ on the floor.

Wasn't this a YouTube sensation recently?

Oh wait, never mind, that was Pants on the Ground.

The game................Jeopordy
The category...........DIII coaches
The question...........What DIII coach combines great coaching ability with
                                "demonstrative" on court behavior to instantly conjure
                                up an image of former bad boy DI coach Bobby Knight?

My favorite Grey Giovanine observation was a few years ago near the end of a game at Augie when, vehemently protesting a foul call, Giovanine rushed onto the court, ripping off his sport coat as he charged. When he got the coat off, he grabbed it by the end of one sleeve and twirled it round and round over his head like a lasso, all the while screaming at the ref and stomping his foot on the floor. By the time he concluded his performance, he was standing almost at center court. He was so out of control, I was worried he was going to have a stroke.   
At the conclusion of the game he chased the refs off the court and down the hall,  still screaming unflattering remarks in their direction until they reached the safety of the locker room
                               

This will probably win me the award for nitpick of the year, but if it was Jeopardy we are playing in this post, wouldn't that be the answer and not the question :-)

[Gregory Sager]

- I'd like to ask Q and Mr. Sager what they saw on the Peters intentional foul. Again, I was no more than 15 feet from that play, and as the whistle blew Tyler was reaching in to try to strip the inbound pass. I saw no intentional foul, but I guess I could have missed something? I guess I'd just like clarity for my own sake! To say that changed the course of the finish is a huge understatement.

It's not as though the incident in question is indelibly printed upon my mind, Chris. I simply remember saying to myself when the call was made, "That's a good call ... unlike the one that they blew earlier in the game."

2. Another (non starter) who was often telling his teammates what to do/where to go on the floor. As the coaches had not ever yelled in any instructions just prior to this player's directives, its doubtful he was passing along info from the bench. Rather, it appeared he was attempting to fill the role of a player-coach on the floor!
Makes it appear that the head coach and staff don't have control of the team when players are criticizing each other on the floor and telling others what to do rather than carry out the coaches strategy. Comments?  

I think when things are going well for a team, the "coach on the floor" guy is celebrated and perceived as a "leader."  When things aren't going so well, that guy is criticized and turns into a "problem."

Precisely. Well stated, Bob.

I agree an outspoken player can certainly be a "coach on the floor." However, in this case, the player in question was not yelling at his teammates in a helpful/instructional manner, but angrily, as if he was the only one who knew how to run the play. Also, as I pointed out originally, it wasn't after his hearing a coach yell any instructions and him merely passing the info on to the other players.
Knowing Greg sees many of the NPU games, I was simply asking HIM if he had observed any of this type of bickering within the Vikings over the course of this season.
The question was asked in the vein of perhaps partially explaining the cause of the athletically gifted Vikings obviously not living up to the potential they seemed to possess at the beginning of the season. 

You're confusing the symptom with the disease, Mark. Again, Bob's explanation is the one that fits.

"Bosko" banners?   
I thought the championship banners hanging in the crackerbox belonged to North Park University. I wasn't aware they were Bosko's property.

NPU has apparently leased the banners from the Djurickovics. I hope that my alma mater is getting a good deal on the rental.

Hmm? I guess I'd start calling other coaches "A$$"es if the program I rooted for hadn't won a conference championship in 24 years.  Ya, in know, you've got 5 "Bosko" banners but he's at another school now, and most of us weren't alive when that happened!! 

well, I guess it comes down to that age old debate of whether it's better to have loved and lost rather than never loved at all?

I strongly endorse the "loved and lost" option.

The puzzler for me is that Hardwood responded to Dennis's criticism of Grey Giovanine's sideline deportment with a jab about NPU's lack of success at winning CCIW titles over the past two decades, as if the two things were somehow related. Aside from the fact that it's a complete non sequitur -- how in the world does following a team that can't win league titles logically lead to calling an opposing coach an ass? -- his jab lends itself to some interesting inferences. Such as: Given that he is an NPU fan, what other opposing coaches can we expect Dennis Prikkel to improperly start calling an ass? Which opposing coaches will I improperly start calling an ass, and which ones will Rob Berki, or Mark Erickson, or tjcummingsfan, or Mr. B, improperly start calling an ass? Contrary to Dennis's breach of losing-fan etiquette, should it be a requirement to follow a successful team before one may be allowed to call an opposing coach an ass? Does following an unsuccessful team take away one's carte blanche to offer commentary on other teams or coaches altogether? Is there a statute of limitations on a program's success; i.e., do North Park's five national championships no longer count? And, to build upon how Mark inferred what Hardwood was implying, are said five national championships the property of Bosko Djurickovic and not NPU? And can Carthage fans thus now claim those five national championships? Does that mean that Carthage fans have the credentials to call Grey Giovanine an ass without getting called out for it? Or have Carthage fans lost the right to call Grey Giovanine an ass because Bosko "has lost the necessary passion to be successful"?

Inquiring minds want to know.

My favorite Grey Giovanine observation was a few years ago near the end of a game at Augie when, vehemently protesting a foul call, Giovanine rushed onto the court, ripping off his sport coat as he charged. When he got the coat off, he grabbed it by the end of one sleeve and twirled it round and round over his head like a lasso, all the while screaming at the ref and stomping his foot on the floor. By the time he concluded his performance, he was standing almost at center court. He was so out of control, I was worried he was going to have a stroke.   
At the conclusion of the game he chased the refs off the court and down the hall,  still screaming unflattering remarks in their direction until they reached the safety of the locker room             

Tsk, tsk, Mark. Since North Central hasn't won a CCIW title since 1990, and that's apparently not within Hardwood's lifetime, you can expect a rap on the knuckles for your anti-Grey diatribe.

Not to worry, though, if you're a Wheaton fan. You folks have the Double 0 license to smack Grey around, so keep posting about Wednesday evening's imbroglio between the coaching staffs in King Arena to your hearts' content.

[Gregory Sager]

Quote from: Viking Mike on Today at 09:07:45 am
CCIW fans can say whatever they want about him, but his passion for the game is tremendous and he brings a demeanor to the game that seems to mirror his teams...... tough and relentless.  The Vikings are not the smoothest team to watch, but you can never question the heart of Augie or their coach. 
Glad he coaches the good guys!!!

response from GS
That last sentence caused such an eye-roll that I gave myself a headache.

I laughed so hard after reading both these paragraphs I got a headache.

A team mirrors a coach - not vice versa.  Kudos to the Augie coach for getting his team to play hard - but he is still an A$$ on the floor.

but he is still an A$$ on the floor.

Wasn't this a YouTube sensation recently?

Oh wait, never mind, that was Pants on the Ground.

The game................Jeopordy
The category...........DIII coaches
The question...........What DIII coach combines great coaching ability with
                                "demonstrative" on court behavior to instantly conjure
                                up an image of former bad boy DI coach Bobby Knight?

My favorite Grey Giovanine observation was a few years ago near the end of a game at Augie when, vehemently protesting a foul call, Giovanine rushed onto the court, ripping off his sport coat as he charged. When he got the coat off, he grabbed it by the end of one sleeve and twirled it round and round over his head like a lasso, all the while screaming at the ref and stomping his foot on the floor. By the time he concluded his performance, he was standing almost at center court. He was so out of control, I was worried he was going to have a stroke.   
At the conclusion of the game he chased the refs off the court and down the hall,  still screaming unflattering remarks in their direction until they reached the safety of the locker room
                               

This will probably win me the award for nitpick of the year, but if it was Jeopardy we are playing in this post, wouldn't that be the answer and not the question :-)

"Anal bum cover for $100, Trebek."