MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

In keeping with the theme of NCC's "OVER achieving," am I correct in my belief that the Coach of the Year is voted on during the football season, but that in basketball, the coach whose team wins the conference is automatically named Coach of the Year?
I hope I'm wrong.
If I'm right, this is not only not consistent, but asinine. IMHO, the COY is the one whose team exceeds pre-season expectations by the widest margin. Can there be any doubt who the basketball Coach of the Year in the CCIW is for the 2010-11 season?

[Gregory Sager]

Don't put next Saturday's game at King Arena in the W column for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance prematurely.

Out of curiousity, where did the moniker "Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance" start?  I notice nobody else uses it and am curious why only Wheaton gets a special mention in your posts.  

Back when Wheaton dropped the "Crusaders" nickname, one of the long-time posters on d3boards.com who is a Wheaton alumnus expressed his indignation that his alma mater had given in to political correctness and changed the school's nickname. I told him that, in solidarity with him and to prove that I was a nice guy even though I detest Wheaton, I would honor his boycott of the new nickname. Since I have to call Wheaton something, I simply came up with a synonym for "thunder." The fact that it's a rather long and ponderous circumlocution seems to fit my CCIW Chat persona.

At least it beats calling them the "Ex-Crusaders."

(I do refer to them as the Thunder on the air during NPU basketball broadcasts. It's easier to get out of one's mouth than "Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance," and it's less confusing to viewers who may not frequent this Internet message board.)

Greg, I specifically changed "failed to beat either NPU or Augie" (which would mean lost both games) to "failed to beat both NPU and Augie" (which means means lost one or the other of the games).  I'm fully aware that if they lose both games, the season has been a disaster (compared to expectations).

A rare failure of your reading skills!

It can be read both ways.

In keeping with the theme of NCC's "OVER achieving," am I correct in my belief that the Coach of the Year is voted on during the football season, but that in basketball, the coach whose team wins the conference is automatically named Coach of the Year?
I hope I'm wrong.
If I'm right, this is not only not consistent, but asinine. IMHO, the COY is the one whose team exceeds pre-season expectations by the widest margin. Can there be any doubt who the basketball Coach of the Year in the CCIW is for the 2010-11 season?

The Coach of the Year award, which is now nine years old, automatically goes to the coach whose team wins the conference. In the event of a tie, it goes to the coach whose team owns the tiebreaker.

I fully agree with you that the award's winner should be selected using an alternate method. However, Todd Raridon being the coach who most deserves the award is hardly a slam dunk, in spite of NCC"s amazing run. Let's not forget that Augustana was picked a pretty distant third in the preseason poll (CC -- 46 points, 4 first-place votes; IWU -- 45 points, 4 first-place votes; AC -- 37 points, 0 first-place votes), and yet Augie is not only at least co-champion (and highly likely sole champion), it flirted very seriously with an undefeated conference season.

I'd still give the award to Raridon over Giovanine, but it's not as cut-and-dried as you make it sound in your last sentence.

[AndOne]

Part of the game is coaching, the other part is execution. The Titans have struggled in both areas tonight.

Lover---

I'd be interested in your thoughts as to how IWU struggled in the area of coaching tonight.      

I for one, am glad that in a close game with so much on the line, that Coach Rose chose to give PT to relatively inexperienced and untested Andrew Ziemnik and Eric Dortch who had played in 5 and 6 games respectively before tonight, as opposed to veteran 4th year players Dan Schouten (18 games, 7 starts this season)and Duncan Lawson (17 games). And what of senior Edmund O'Callaghan (24 games, 5 starts in 08/09 and 27 games, 24 starts in 09/10) on whom rumor has it a missing person report was recently filed with the Bloomington Police Department?
Four years ago these guys were all highly recruited by Ron Rose who was entering his initial season as the Titans head coach. They all could have gone to any number of schools, but chose to cast their lot with a first year coach who was anxious to make a good initial impression with a solid first recruiting class--which he did! Thanks, partially, to the inclusion of the aforementioned three players, it was widely considered Wesleyan hit a home run with Rose's 1st recruiting class. I myself thought they did a tremendous job. We all heard lofty predictions of multiple conference championships, Final Fours, and national championships. I would have loved to have Schouten, Lawson, and Doug Sexauer attend NCC. I didn't really know anything about Rosenkranz (Thank God you are doing well Travis  ) or Johnson, and not much about Matt Schick. However, now four years later at crunch time when the Titans are fighting to even make it into the CCIW conference tournament, it seems Ron Rose has no further use for several of the young men that could have gone so many different places, but chose instead too put their faith in Coach Rose and follow him. Not only did none of them play tonight, but it seems they have been forgotten for some time now. I know PT is never guaranteed to anyone. However, I have to think that 4th year players with as much experience as the aforementioned trio have, would have posed a far higher degree of danger to NCC tonight than did the 2 freshmen who scored NO points.   

[AndOne]

In keeping with the theme of NCC's "OVER achieving," am I correct in my belief that the Coach of the Year is voted on during the football season, but that in basketball, the coach whose team wins the conference is automatically named Coach of the Year?
I hope I'm wrong.
If I'm right, this is not only not consistent, but asinine. IMHO, the COY is the one whose team exceeds pre-season expectations by the widest margin. Can there be any doubt who the basketball Coach of the Year in the CCIW is for the 2010-11 season?

The Coach of the Year award, which is now nine years old, automatically goes to the coach whose team wins the conference. In the event of a tie, it goes to the coach whose team owns the tiebreaker.

I fully agree with you that the award's winner should be selected using an alternate method. However, Todd Raridon being the coach who most deserves the award is hardly a slam dunk, in spite of NCC"s amazing run. Let's not forget that Augustana was picked a pretty distant third in the preseason poll (CC -- 46 points, 4 first-place votes; IWU -- 45 points, 4 first-place votes; AC -- 37 points, 0 first-place votes), and yet Augie is not only at least co-champion (and highly likely sole champion), it flirted very seriously with an undefeated conference season.

I'd still give the award to Raridon over Giovanine, but it's not as cut-and-dried as you make it sound in your last sentence.

Thats fine Greg, just so you agree. I understand you couldn't allow me an uncontested slam dunk!   

[AndOne]

Part of the game is coaching, the other part is execution. The Titans have struggled in both areas tonight.

Two teams are playing tonight, ALOTG. The Cards are playing very hard. But give the Titans credit; they've fought back from five down in OT tonight.

I hear you, but some times you have to call a spade a spade.

Give the Cardinals some credit too. After trailing 23-12 with 10:03 left in the 1st half, they outscored the Titans by a 52-35 score the rest of the way. Not too shabby.

[AndOne]

When's the last time Illinois Wesleyan only scored 58 points in an overtime game?

The two centers, Landon Gamble and Doug Sexauer, both had big games; Gamble had 16 and 10, while Sexauer had 19 and 7. The glaring stat of the game: Sean Johnson played 43 minutes but only scored four points on 2-13 shooting. Sounds like Kevin Gillespie had him locked up tonight.

I just got back from the game, Sean got some pretty good looks and the shots just didn't fall tonight.

Simple as that, sometimes they don't.

You are correct though that if Sean had brought his big game, North Central loses by 10 minimum.

But, alas, he did not.

Dunno about that. Looks to me like NCC imposed its will upon IWU to a certain degree; just look at the score. That's the score that Todd Raridon wanted, even with five extra minutes of basketball thrown in there, and the score that Ron Rose did not want to see his high-scoring team get dragged into. Also, IWU's rebounding weakness and NCC's rebounding strength showed up at both ends of the floor, as the Cards outrebounded the Titans, 36-28.

Methinks that you're not giving the Redbirds enough credit here.

I'll second that motion.

TitansIWU---

Were you really in Naperville tonight? If so, what were you watching?
Arguably, the single most important factor in the Cardinals win over IWU tonight was the lock-down defense Kevin Gillespie played against Sean Johnson. He played him to the point you could see, as evidenced both by his facial expression and by his body language, that Johnson was thoroughly frustrated. Did you perhaps notice that the vast majority of the time that Johnson had the ball, he spent dribbling laterally? Gillespie had him bottled up so tightly that he was unable to attack the basket as we have all seen him do countless times. Kevin also stayed with him when he didn't have the ball. Wesleyan tried running countless screens in order to get Johnson the ball for an open look. However, when he received the ball, Gillespie was right there in his face, having fought through the screen to deny him the easy open look. Due to Gillespie's tight defense, many of Johnson's shots were off balance bricks where he was neither able to step into his shot or face up square to the basket. I think you forgot to remove your green tinted glasses when you entered the hanger this evening.   

[Gregory Sager]

Part of the game is coaching, the other part is execution. The Titans have struggled in both areas tonight.

Lover---

I'd be interested in your thoughts as to how IWU struggled in the area of coaching tonight.      

I for one, am glad that in a close game with so much on the line, that Coach Rose chose to give PT to relatively inexperienced and untested Andrew Ziemnik and Eric Dortch who had played in 5 and 6 games respectively before tonight, as opposed to veteran 4th year players Dan Schouten (18 games, 7 starts this season)and Duncan Lawson (17 games). And what of senior Edmund O'Callaghan (24 games, 5 starts in 08/09 and 27 games, 24 starts in 09/10) on whom rumor has it a missing person report was recently filed with the Bloomington Police Department?

Ziemnik is not a surprise, Mark. He's appeared in each of IWU's last four games, playing 4, 14, 9, and 17 minutes, respectively. He's clearly a member of the rotation now, and it's not a new development. Dortch's appearance tonight is a bit more of a head-scratcher, but since he only played two minutes it's hardly noteworthy.

It's pretty clear to me, having seen the IWU @ WC game live and the IWU @ EC game via webcast, that Ziemnik is in there to give the Titans some much-needed toughness and defense at the forward spot. O'Callaghan is strictly a center -- and he's not nearly good enough to take minutes away from either Sexauer or Connolly -- while Lawson has never been anything more than a big green pylon at the defensive end of the floor throughout his career. Schouten? I'm not sure that he's ever panned out; he's spent a substantial amount of his time at IWU in street clothes due to injuries. I think that he finally got a shot at varsity time this year due to injuries suffered by first-stringers earlier in the season (as did Reed, Davis, etc.), and he just didn't make enough of an impression upon Ron Rose to warrant continuing that particular experiment once the regulars returned. Of course, this is all guesswork on my part.

As to your subsequent comments, I'm not convinced that they would've posed "a far higher degree of danger" to NCC this evening. I think that we're talking about three guys who, for one reason or another, never lived up to the hype and who in the end didn't really pan out as regulars. That happens all the time. There's only 200 minutes per game that a coach can dole out, unfortunately. If his program has a low rate of attrition, and if he's a steady recruiter who adds varsity-worthy players every year, he's gonna end up with a lot of seniors who get little or no playing time.

And Rose is not the only coach who is no longer using an experienced senior; Jorge Gonzalez of NPU and John Shackelford of Wheaton are nowhere to be seen now, and Mike Avallone is down to a single solitary courtesy shift per game now after having averaged over 11 mpg last season for Augie. Erik Ellingson, who averaged 12 mpg for Elmhurst last year, has practically disappeared from the rotation for the 'jays, and he's had two DNP-CDs in Elmhurst's last three games.

I don't think it's a black mark on Ron Rose's ledger at all that he played two freshmen tonight while three seniors sat on the bench with DNP-CDs. He went with the players that he thought gave his team the best chance to win, which is exactly what a coach is supposed to do. Seniority doesn't enter into it, although experience (which is not necessarily the same thing as seniority) is certainly a relevant factor in terms of what a particular player offers a coach.

As you said, playing time is never guaranteed to anyone. If the three seniors in question feel badly used or misled because they aren't seeing any playing time lately, then that's their business. But Ron Rose doesn't get paid to make each and every one of his players happy. He gets paid to win.

[TitansIWU]

I respectfully disagreed with Mr. Sager's "locked up" comment.

Sean got off a number of "good look" shots.

They didn't go.

I give all the credit in the world to NCC, but it wasn't a smothering defeat of the Titans, it was a solid performance against a Titan team who has proven to be inconsistent on many levels this year.

I would argue IWU "LOST" that game, just as much as NCC "WON" it.

This is just my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

[devildog29]

Living in TX, I will preface my comments to fully acknowledge I am not able to watch many Titan games - a couple live streamed games here or there.  I absolutely admit I have little first hand experience this year to base my opinions on, moreso relying on newspaper reports and posters to formulate my take on what is happening with the Titans.  I have truly given Ron Rose the benefit of the doubt since he's been at my beloved alma mater.  That being said, at what point do we start questioning where and when will his tremendous recruiting success turn into more success on the court?

I do know we were a win from the Final Four last year.  At this point though, that's starting to feel a little more like the exception, not the rule in the Rose era.  I'm not going all OurHouse here, I really do like Coach Rose and want him to succeed.  Perhaps attending IWU during the Simich/Crabtree/Neibrugge/etc. era has overly inflated my expectations for IWU basketball, but consistently fighting to merely make the CCIW conference tournament is not what most Titan fans expect from this program. 

This is not meant as a rant, and perhaps it's just a little frustration, but I guess I'm just asking what others think.  Anyone else getting the same feelings as me?

[AndOne]

I respectfully disagreed with Mr. Sager's "locked up" comment.

Sean got off a number of "good look" shots.

They didn't go.

I give all the credit in the world to NCC, but it wasn't a smothering defeat of the Titans, it was a solid performance against a Titan team who has proven to be inconsistent on many levels this year.

I would argue IWU "LOST" that game, just as much as NCC "WON" it.

This is just my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

Titans----

I agree 1000% that you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Too often we see people zinged on here just because they take a different opinion. And, just as you are entitled to your opinion, I sense you feel I am entitled to mine.
You said you didn't think Kevin Gillespie played "lock down" D on Sean Johnson. I attempted to support my position that he did so by pointing out that Johnson spent a majority of his time moving laterally with the ball as Kevin prevented him from being able to attack the basket. Additionally, even when Wesleyan set screens in an attempt to free Sean for an open look and a catch and shoot, Kevin was most often still right there in Sean's face when he received the ball. Additionally, did you notice how few times Johnson was able to square up and step into his shot? Not many.
Finally, should you still not choose to agree with my reasoning, please be advised that several members of the Cardinal coaching staff felt that Kevin's defense was a major factor in the win last night, and they know more about it than both of us combined!    

[CCIWchamps]

Don't put next Saturday's game at King Arena in the W column for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance prematurely.

Out of curiousity, where did the moniker "Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance" start?  I notice nobody else uses it and am curious why only Wheaton gets a special mention in your posts. 

THUNDER!

Yes.

Out of curiousity, where did the moniker "Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance" start?  I notice nobody else uses it and am curious why only Wheaton gets a special mention in your posts.  

Back when Wheaton dropped the "Crusaders" nickname, one of the long-time posters on d3boards.com who is a Wheaton alumnus expressed his indignation that his alma mater had given in to political correctness and changed the school's nickname. I told him that, in solidarity with him and to prove that I was a nice guy even though I detest Wheaton, I would honor his boycott of the new nickname. Since I have to call Wheaton something, I simply came up with a synonym for "thunder." The fact that it's a rather long and ponderous circumlocution seems to fit my CCIW Chat persona.

At least it beats calling them the "Ex-Crusaders."

(I do refer to them as the Thunder on the air during NPU basketball broadcasts. It's easier to get out of one's mouth than "Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance," and it's less confusing to viewers who may not frequent this Internet message board.)

Ahhhh.  That makes sense.  It was a frustrating change, especially to a nickname that has no physical embodiment.  
I'm glad to know it was out of solidarity, and not just a snarky jab that had hung around too long!

[TitansIWU]

Does the "zinging" that you have seen include the following?

1. Asking me if I was in Naperville?
2. Asking me what I was watching?

[Always.A.Titan]

Living in TX, I will preface my comments to fully acknowledge I am not able to watch many Titan games - a couple live streamed games here or there.  I absolutely admit I have little first hand experience this year to base my opinions on, moreso relying on newspaper reports and posters to formulate my take on what is happening with the Titans.  I have truly given Ron Rose the benefit of the doubt since he's been at my beloved alma mater.  That being said, at what point do we start questioning where and when will his tremendous recruiting success turn into more success on the court?

I do know we were a win from the Final Four last year.  At this point though, that's starting to feel a little more like the exception, not the rule in the Rose era.  I'm not going all OurHouse here, I really do like Coach Rose and want him to succeed.  Perhaps attending IWU during the Simich/Crabtree/Neibrugge/etc. era has overly inflated my expectations for IWU basketball, but consistently fighting to merely make the CCIW conference tournament is not what most Titan fans expect from this program. 

This is not meant as a rant, and perhaps it's just a little frustration, but I guess I'm just asking what others think.  Anyone else getting the same feelings as me?

On this note, has anyone seen Ed or Duncan Lawson this year? Ron Rose has had a tendency since he arrived to place his new, younger players in place of older players. On some occasions, the old vets thrive in their role, see Sean Dwyer being a leader and defensive/energy guy. But for a team that sometimes has trouble playing D and rebounding and maybe not grinding out games, wouldn't it make more sense to play some guys who are a little rough around the edges and have some experience playing down the stretch?

Also, what are the odds the CCIW gets in 2 teams to the tourney if Augie wins the conference tournament?

[AndOne]

CCIW--

I too always thought Crusaders was a terrific nickname for Wheaton. I was disappointed and, given Wheaton's independent nature, more than surprised when they caved and changed their name.
In keeping with Greg's moniker, I always felt it was an especially apt nickname during the Kent Raymond years when his frequently successful long range bombs ripped through the nets and sounded a quite disturbing note to the opposition.  

[AndOne]

Does the "zinging" that you have seen include the following?

1. Asking me if I was in Naperville?
2. Asking me what I was watching?

No sir. Those questions were intended as a little good natured ribbing rather than an attempt to besmirch either your sense of direction or your vision.   
My reference to "zinging" was with regard to certain posters fondness for negatively affecting one's K just because they don't like or agree with with the other poster said.