MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[jtsmith231]

Just wanted to clarify the tie-breaker situation.  This is obviously messy as there's a possibility of three teams finishing 9-5 in conference.  At this point it appears as if Wheaton is locked into the three-seed regardless of the outcome in Bloomington.  The following is the word from the CCIW notes this past week:

"If Illinois Wesleyan, Wheaton and Carthage finish in a three-way tie for third
place at 9-5, Wheaton would earn the No. 3 seed based on its 3-1 composite
record against Carthage and Illinois Wesleyan during the regular season. The next
step would be to determine which team gets the No. 4 seed, Illinois Wesleyan
or Carthage. The Titans and Red Men split their season series, and under this
scenario, both teams will have finished 1-1 against first place Augustana and
second place North Central. Illinois Wesleyan finished 1-1 against the next place
team, which is Wheaton, while Carthage was 0-2 against the Thunder. This would
give Illinois Wesleyan the fourth and final seed."

Guess I was off! I suppose that when reading this CCIW tiebreaker policy:

"In the case of a tie involving more than two teams, the tiebreaker criteria should be used to remove one team before going back to the original criteria (at the start) and attempting to break the teams that remain tied."

I incorrectly inferred that the "removal" of a team was more of an elimination, as in the "loser" of the tiebreaker. I didn't really consider that a team could be "removed" in the sense that they won the tiebreaker.  It's strangely worded, I think, but I suppose it fits now that I think about it!

[bopol]

If IWU wins, the order is:

1. North Central (by virtue of best record in last 7 conference games, but see below)
2. Augustana
3. IWU (by virtue of 1-1 split with North Central vs. Wheaton's 0-2)
4. Wheaton

If Augustana wins, the order is:
1. Augustana
2. North Central
3. Wheaton (by virtue of beating Carthage twice)
4. Carthage

Now, the CCIW.org lists the tiebreaking criteria (http://www.cciw.org/sports/2010/6/29/Gen._0629100226.aspx?id=616)

"Men's & Women's Basketball
Seeding will be determined by regular season finish. Ties are broken by the following:

1. Head-to-head competition.
2. Record against team(s) above the tie beginning with the highest ranked team.
3. Record vs. team or teams in 3 rd place. If still tied, go to the next place for determination, et cetera.
4. Road record against conference schools.
5. Record in their seven conference games.
6. The point spread of the tied teams' head-to head competition.
7. Coin toss"

And I am assuming that the 5th criteria means their last seven conference games, but it doesn't say so.

So, if true, NC is playing Wheaton no matter what.

[Mr. Ypsi]

AndOne: Father forgive me..........................GO TITANS!!!!!!


Response from the Heavens:

My son, do not ask for forgiveness, we've been waiting all along for you to finally see the light!

Your prayer wasn't in Norwegian, so how do you expect God to answer it?

According to Greg on the soccer board, it is Swedes that are the salvation of NPU.  Is the battle-royale between Swedes and Norwegians heating up again?

Right on, Dennis!

Jim, you're the soccer guy - sure you wanna risk pi$$ing off the Swedes?!

[jtsmith231]

If IWU wins, the order is:

1. North Central (by virtue of best record in last 7 conference games, but see below)
2. Augustana
3. IWU (by virtue of 1-1 split with North Central vs. Wheaton's 0-2)
4. Wheaton

If Augustana wins, the order is:
1. Augustana
2. North Central
3. Wheaton (by virtue of beating Carthage twice)
4. Carthage

Now, the CCIW.org lists the tiebreaking criteria (http://www.cciw.org/sports/2010/6/29/Gen._0629100226.aspx?id=616)

"Men's & Women's Basketball
Seeding will be determined by regular season finish. Ties are broken by the following:

1. Head-to-head competition.
2. Record against team(s) above the tie beginning with the highest ranked team.
3. Record vs. team or teams in 3 rd place. If still tied, go to the next place for determination, et cetera.
4. Road record against conference schools.
5. Record in their seven conference games.
6. The point spread of the tied teams' head-to head competition.
7. Coin toss"

And I am assuming that the 5th criteria means their last seven conference games, but it doesn't say so.

So, if true, NC is playing Wheaton no matter what.

bopol, while I certainly thought the exact same thing just a couple of hours ago, I believe the issue is that if IWU wins, the CCIW technically has a three-way tiebreaker on their hands, and not just a two-way tie to be split between IWU and Wheaton. 

Based on thunder38illini's information, it appears that the CCIW is planning to break the three-way tie first by awarding the #3 seed to the team with the best head-to-head record among the three, which we would be Wheaton's 3-1 over IWU's 2-2 and Carthage's 1-3.  After that, of course, IWU would take the tiebreaker over Carthage by virtue of IWU's 1-1 record vs. the third-place Thunder, in comparison to Carthage's 0-2.

Remember, even though Carthage can't qualify for the tournament if Wesleyan wins, they're still technically part of the tiebreaking process.

[AndOne]

i don't know if its possible to impose your will on a team with the size and strength of Augie, but if the NC Cardinals didn't do that last night, they did the closest thing to it. They really won every facet of the game. I do think the Vikings didn't take the Cardinals seriously enough, and thought they would be easy prey after dumping the Cards by 16 in Rock Island.
However, as I mentioned initially, NCC really controlled both the tempo and each segment of the action as evidenced by the facts that:
*NCC played at THEIR pace, making the game a defensively orientated slugfest and one which would guarantee a low scoring affair. The 50-46 final was a NCC order cooked to perfection.
*The NCC starters outscored Augie's starters 38-35
*The NCC bench outscored their Augie counterparts 12-11despite the fact NCC played only 2 subs compared to the Vikings 6. Perhaps Giovanine was trying to wear the Cards down. If so, this plan failed miserably. 11 points out of 6 players over 71 minutes of action isn't very good production.
*Points in the paint---NCC 26, Augie 16
*Points off TOs---NCC 14, Augie 7
*2nd chance points---NCC 11, Augie 6
*Fast break points---NCC 5, Augie 2
*NCC also won the battle of the boards against the bigger Vikings 36-33
*While NCC shot only 38.8%, their swarming defense held Augie to 32.7%
***While none of these stats demonstrate dominance in any single area, their combined advantage adds up to the Cardinals doing just what they had to do to earn the victory.

There is no doubt Kyle Nelson is a 1st team all conference player. 6'9" and strong to the basket with good footwork and a great power game. I'll be surprised if he doesn't make all region. However, he couldn't stop NCC freshman Landon Gamble last night as Gamble outscored him 16-10, and, along with NCC's Jack Burchett, tied him for game high in rebounds with 7. I think Landon cemented a 1st team all conference selection with his performance last night.  

*Edited two fixx a cuple of splin missteaks       

[AndOne]

The attendance for last night's NCC-Augie game at NCC was "officially" listed as being 1083.
Hogwash! This is utterly ridiculous.
D3Hoops lists the capacity of Gregory Arena as 3,500. The NCC web site shows 2000. In truth, its probably somewhere in between. I think the balcony in the hanger holds at least  2000. As those are the only permanent seats , maybe thats where the 2000 figure comes from. The black folding seats on the main floor and the normal amount of bleacher sections add probably another 300. Last night, there were 2 extra smaller bleacher sections at the west end of the court, and one extra section on the east end. At least another 100 seats. Thats about 2400 seats right there, and very few were empty. Many of the fans who showed up for the women's senior night game stayed for the men's game. When I arrived at 6:45 -6:50, almost all the black folding seats were taken. 2 was the biggest number of seats together that weren't already occupied. 2 of the bleacher sections on the west end were 75% filled as was one of the sections on the east end. And, 25 % of the balcony was already filled. The balcony ended up being completely filled. Every row from bottom to the very top row, as well as the entire width of the balcony from the east staircase to the west.
And most people headed up to the balcony only after finding no seats on the main floor. Definitely the most people I've seen in the hanger in the 7 years I've been attending on a regular basis. The NCC student sections at the east end were completely packed, and there were about 50-75 more people standing at the southeast corner of the bleachers.
Also likely the most students I've ever seen at a NCC game.
No way in (heck) there weren't at least 2000 people in attendance, and thats probably low. Augie had the largest contingent of fans for any game, exceeding even Wesleyan who usually brings the biggest crowd.

[wheaton.thunder]

I for one will be cheering for Augustana tomorrow so that North Central vs Wheaton at least has a neutral court. I hate the "hanger" wait, is hate to strong a word?

[Pat Coleman]

It would sure be nice to see someone spell hangar correctly.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

AndOne: Father forgive me..........................GO TITANS!!!!!!


Response from the Heavens:

My son, do not ask for forgiveness, we've been waiting all along for you to finally see the light!

Your prayer wasn't in Norwegian, so how do you expect God to answer it?

According to Greg on the soccer board, it is Swedes that are the salvation of NPU.  Is the battle-royale between Swedes and Norwegians heating up again?

Right on, Dennis!

Jim, you're the soccer guy - sure you wanna risk pi$$ing off the Swedes?!

Tis the basis of a very old Norwegian joke.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

It would sure be nice to see someone spell hangar correctly.

Speeling is not part of the Whaton curriculum.  Nort Park's nether.   

[TitansIWU]

North Central's "gym" is a cool old building and kinda reminds me of the feel of the old Bradley Field House in Peoria.

But, I am not sure I want to be in the balcony of the hangar with 2000 people, if it really fits that.

Seems like it might be really tight.

However, I would rather be there and be watching IWU like a sardine than the alternative which is listening to Carthage play in Rock Island.

GO TITANS!

[Mugsy]

It would sure be nice to see someone spell hangar correctly.

Speeling is not part of the Whaton curriculum.  Nort Park's nether.   

That would be "Weeton"

[Dennis_Prikkel]

It would sure be nice to see someone spell hangar correctly.

Speeling is not part of the Whaton curriculum.  Nort Park's nether.   

That would be "Weeton"

oxymoron

[bopol]

jtsmith,

Good point.  So, I guess the question because do they calculate who emerges from the tiebreaker and then set the seeds (in which case, IWU would be 3 and Wheaton would be 4) or does Wheaton get the 3 seed from emerging from the tiebreaker first?

The other funny thing is when you look at it, you could be setting the 1-2 seeds based on how they did against the #3 team, but you don't know the 3 team until you set the 1-2 seeds because they use that tiebreaker.  In this case, it doesn't happen, but it could have easily if Augustana had lost to Wheaton instead of (in this possibility) losing to IWU.

Basically, someone needs to rewrite the tiebreaker rules for the CCIW.

[wheels81]

It would sure be nice to see someone spell hangar correctly.

Speeling is not part of the Whaton curriculum.  Nort Park's nether.   

That would be "Weeton"

"Hanger" is correct it's what happens to Wheaton everytime they play there.
So when was NC a place of aviation?