MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Just Bill]

Matt Nadelhoffer article...

http://herald-review.com/sports/college/article_e6fd6048-6b0c-11e0-b2f3-001cc4c03286.html

"First, he's familiar with the CCIW and Illinois after being an All-America player at Wheaton in the late '90s. Second, outgoing senior Kyle Taylor has helped Millikin stay relevant in the wooing game.

As soon as Marc Smith resigned in late February, Taylor immediately got involved with staying in contact with recruits. He said he's communicated with about 20 kids making sure they know Millikin is still interested. He even went on a recruiting trip to Chicago last weekend."

Is that legal? I've always thought student-athletes were not permitted to do off-campus recruiting.

Don't know the answer, but if his eligibility is over, would he still be a student-athlete subject to the rule?

You're right. I missed the word "outgoing" in front of senior.

[dansand]

Another commitment for Augie. Cole Miller, a small forward from Muscatine, Iowa. Hope to announce another next week.

Cole Miller, 6-4, 180, Muscatine, IA (Muscatine HS)

Muscatine HS     GP-GS   FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg   A  TO Blk Stl  Pts  Avg
2008-09 (So.)... 22-21   88-196  .449  15-46   .326  35-40   .875   28  95  123  5.6  19  55   4   9  226 10.3
2009-10 (Jr.)... 22-21  105-208  .505  26-65   .400  28-37   .757   22  94  116  5.3  37  57   3   7  264 12.0
2010-11 (Sr.)... 23-23  119-258  .461  34-93   .366  65-84   .774   27 114  141  6.1  45  65   4  12  337 14.7

*2011 Class 4A All-Sub-State 5
*2011 Quad-City Times Honorable mention All-Metro
*2011 Muscatine Journal 1st team All-Area
*2011 2nd team All-Mississippi Athletic Conference
*2011 IBCA Senior All-Star game
*2011 Iowa-Illinois Senior Showcase
*2010 3rd team All-Mississippi Athletic Conference

http://muscatinejournal.com/sports/college/article_c046a4ba-6d5e-11e0-9f5e-001cc4c03286.html


Brandon Thompson, 6-1, 175, Galesburg, IL (Galesburg HS)
18.9 ppg, 51% FG, 46% 3P, 79% FT, 5.2 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.3 spg

*2011 IBCA Class 3A/4A 3rd team All-State
*2011 Champaign News-Gazette Honorable mention All-State
*2011 All-Western Big 6
*MVP of 2010 Charleston Holiday Tournament
*2011 IBCA All-Star game
*2011 Iowa-Illinois Senior Showcase
*2011 Review Atlas All-Star game

http://www.galesburg.com/newsnow/x1700901032/Streaks-Thompson-commits-to-Augustana
http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.php?id=538743

[augiefan]

On IWU recruit Drew Blumenshine...

Once again IWU beats out Augie for a targeted recruit. Atleast it wasn't a position of great need for Augie.

[augiefan]

Another commitment for Augie. Cole Miller, a small forward from Muscatine, Iowa. Hope to announce another next week.

Looks like two good pickups for Augie in positions where there is a need. Good to see solid FT and 3PT shooting percentages. I have no idea what level of competition Muscatine plays against, but Galesburg is in a pretty tough conference, so I'm excited about landing Thompson, a much needed SG.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[dansand]

Muscatine plays in 4A, the highest classification in Iowa, and in the Mississippi Athletic Conference with Bettendorf (Troy & Oliver Rorer, George Dexter & the 3 Wessels); Pleasant Valley (Dain Swetalla, Brian Larson); the Davenport Schools: Central (Nate Swetalla, Zac Larson), West, North & Assumption; North Scott; Clinton & Burlington.

[OurHouse]

On IWU recruit Drew Blumenshine...

Once again IWU beats out Augie for a targeted recruit. Atleast it wasn't a position of great need for Augie.

3A? Woopie - ..and a Blumenshine to boot
How convenient for this coach. Its the school that attracts student/athletes not good recruiting

(modified by GS for formatting)

[markerickson]

The athletic component area of Scheduling has at least four subfactors that need to be considered under Title IX.  "Prime time" or days of the week is just one subfactor.  There was a very recent lawsuit in IN about the issue of what constitutes prime time as boys play a majority of their games on the weekend whereas girls play a majority during a weeknight.  The judge dismissed the case, favoring the existing practice.  Yes, women may not benefit by playing on the weekend more often, but if other scheduling subfactors are equal, then the day of the week issue - as a stand-alone disparity - is diluted greatly.

[Gregory Sager]

The athletic component area of Scheduling has at least four subfactors that need to be considered under Title IX.  "Prime time" or days of the week is just one subfactor.  There was a very recent lawsuit in IN about the issue of what constitutes prime time as boys play a majority of their games on the weekend whereas girls play a majority during a weeknight.  The judge dismissed the case, favoring the existing practice.  Yes, women may not benefit by playing on the weekend more often, but if other scheduling subfactors are equal, then the day of the week issue - as a stand-alone disparity - is diluted greatly.

Thanks, Mark.

Re: Steve Schafer's hire by Fontbonne, I'll echo what I said on the SLIAC board. Steve is a solid basketball mind, a strong and energetic recruiter, and an all-around good guy. I think that Fontbonne will embrace him warmly, and that he'll have much success there. He has very big shoes to fill, but I think he'll do well by the legacy of the late Lee McKinney.

Looks like I now have a rooting interest in the SLIAC!

(Word has it that Paul Brenegan is getting close to landing a basketball job as well. Got my fingers crossed that he'll get the offer.)

Matt Nadelhoffer article...

http://herald-review.com/sports/college/article_e6fd6048-6b0c-11e0-b2f3-001cc4c03286.html

"First, he's familiar with the CCIW and Illinois after being an All-America player at Wheaton in the late '90s. Second, outgoing senior Kyle Taylor has helped Millikin stay relevant in the wooing game.

As soon as Marc Smith resigned in late February, Taylor immediately got involved with staying in contact with recruits. He said he's communicated with about 20 kids making sure they know Millikin is still interested. He even went on a recruiting trip to Chicago last weekend."

I'm impressed that an undergraduate whose playing days have just ended, let alone ended on such a terribly sour note, would do all that work on his own initiative. I don't know what Kyle Taylor's post-graduation plans are, but if he's interested in coaching I would hope that a college out there would give him serious consideration for a graduate assistant position in its basketball program.

[AndOne]

1. Women's games on Wed-----> Fair?----YES. Perhaps even politically correct?
2. Men's recruiting on Tues if they play on Tues-----> Impractical----YES. Impossible-----NO, but it seems a head coach would have to have an ass't miss the game to recruit at the HS.
3. The MSL having girls/boys doubleheaders during the week-----> GOOD, BUT, thats just ONE league. As I said, I attend HS games almost every Tues, mainly in the near and far west burbs and in the SW burbs, and I've never seen a girls/boys twin bill.

4. Question to all on this subject-----While there can be no argument regarding the question of fairness, the other question that I believe merits consideration, especially in this era of financial strain not only to individuals and families, but also to colleges/universities, is who drives the car. In other words does a men's or women's game draw more fans/spectators and thus contribute more $ to the school's bank account. Where is the primary level of interest?
I'm sure there are exceptions (Millikin, IWU?), but where is the bar with regard to interest level, attendance, and thus financial contribution? Should this be a consideration? Just asking for the sake of discussion.

Who drives the car? The federal government.  Mark Erickson can better address whether scheduling considerations fall within the purview of Title IX, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's grounds for a lawsuit based upon the fact that CCIW women's basketball teams are perpetually handcuffed to a disadvantageous schedule as compared to their male counterparts, particularly if it can be argued to have an impact upon academics.

Also, if it comes down to the men's teams having to assign an assistant coach to scout and recruit at high school games on Tuesday nights, the men's teams in this league are for the most part better equipped to handle such a task than are the women's teams, as the men's teams tend to have more assistant coaches.

The athletic component area of Scheduling has at least four subfactors that need to be considered under Title IX.  "Prime time" or days of the week is just one subfactor.  There was a very recent lawsuit in IN about the issue of what constitutes prime time as boys play a majority of their games on the weekend whereas girls play a majority during a weeknight.  The judge dismissed the case, favoring the existing practice.  Yes, women may not benefit by playing on the weekend more often, but if other scheduling subfactors are equal, then the day of the week issue - as a stand-alone disparity - is diluted greatly.

It therefore appears legal precedent has been established which "greatly dilutes" the day of the week scheduling issue question. Accordingly, with a decreased likelihood of legal action being brought based on day of the week scheduling alone, the fairness issue seems primary with regard to the conference changing men's games from Wednesdays to Tuesdays. However, while doing so may be "fair," and may eliminate a problem for the women, the switch seems to create a problem on the men's side due to weekday games now being scheduled on the same day as the vast majority of local boys high school games.  As has been discussed, this does not put men's recruiting in an impossible situation as a head coach can always assign an assistant to attend the high school game. However, even if this is done, a new barrier is created as having both high school and college games scheduled on Tuesdays eliminates the possibility of being able to invite a male recruit to attend that evening's game. Fairness is nice, but at what cost? Are we perhaps going a bit too fair in the name of "fairness?"

[AndOne]

As Greg indicated, the best solution may well be women's/men's doubleheader on Wednesdays. Sounds great to me.

That's not really what I was discussing in terms of the solution. As the Pantagraph article indicated, the CCIW is reluctant to go to women's/men's doubleheaders on weeknights because it would create more missed class time for both the women and the men. What the CCIW is looking into doing is setting up a new scheduling system that would start in 2012-13 that would have all eight CCIW schools host a game every Wednesday night. Four would host a women's game, four would host a men's game. Therefore, each school would have one of its teams play at home and the other play on the road on any given Wednesday evening. The only doubleheaders would be those in which a JV prelim was involved

I sense it might be hard to come up with a better solution than this if the conference is determined to have the women play on Wednesdays.

[Titan Q]

However, even if this is done, a new barrier is created as having both high school and college games scheduled on Tuesdays eliminates the possibility of being able to invite a male recruit to attend that evening's game.

I have to believe, though, that a large percentage of recruit visits to CCIW games happen on Saturdays...when the kid and the parents have plenty of time to do the campus tour, etc.  And when it comes down to it, don't coaches prefer to have kids in for Saturday games anyway (when the crowds are bigger and atmosphere a little better)?  It seems to me like there are plenty of Saturday home conference games to get recruits in.

This Tuesday deal is going to force CCIW coaches to adjust their normal recruiting schedule, but honestly, I think they'll adjust and work around it.  They're a crafty bunch.

[Titan Q]

Also keep in mind, there are several very successful Division III coaches that rarely, if ever, get to see their recruits play a high school game -- Mark Edwards (Wash U) comes to mind.  Yet these coaches still find a way to evaluate, build relationships, and land great recruits.

CCIW coaches will still have the Friday games next year, and all kinds of other ways to get the job done.

[Gregory Sager]

However, even if this is done, a new barrier is created as having both high school and college games scheduled on Tuesdays eliminates the possibility of being able to invite a male recruit to attend that evening's game.

I have to believe, though, that a large percentage of recruit visits to CCIW games happen on Saturdays...when the kid and the parents have plenty of time to do the campus tour, etc.  And when it comes down to it, don't coaches prefer to have kids in for Saturday games anyway (when the crowds are bigger and atmosphere a little better)?  It seems to me like there are plenty of Saturday home conference games to get recruits in.

This Tuesday deal is going to force CCIW coaches to adjust their normal recruiting schedule, but honestly, I think they'll adjust and work around it.  They're a crafty bunch.

Also keep in mind, there are several very successful Division III coaches that rarely, if ever, get to see their recruits play a high school game -- Mark Edwards (Wash U) comes to mind.  Yet these coaches still find a way to evaluate, build relationships, and land great recruits.

CCIW coaches will still have the Friday games next year, and all kinds of other ways to get the job done.

I agree on all points. I think that the bottom line on this move by the league is that it's an inconvenience for CCIW men's basketball coaches, but hardly a crisis. I'd be shocked if it has any kind of impact at all in terms of whether or not any local kid in particular ends up attending a CCIW school.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I would also concur.  I've found the conversation interesting (and informative - so far as I can tell, Michigan hs games are played on pretty random days), but also a tempest in a teapot.  Q's comment that Saturdays are likely to be vastly more important than Tuesdays/Wednesdays sounds intuitively right to me.

Now if the CCIW decided to move all football games to Friday nights, THAT would be a problem!

[AndOne]

However, even if this is done, a new barrier is created as having both high school and college games scheduled on Tuesdays eliminates the possibility of being able to invite a male recruit to attend that evening's game.

I have to believe, though, that a large percentage of recruit visits to CCIW games happen on Saturdays...when the kid and the parents have plenty of time to do the campus tour, etc.  And when it comes down to it, don't coaches prefer to have kids in for Saturday games anyway (when the crowds are bigger and atmosphere a little better)?  It seems to me like there are plenty of Saturday home conference games to get recruits in.

This Tuesday deal is going to force CCIW coaches to adjust their normal recruiting schedule, but honestly, I think they'll adjust and work around it.  They're a crafty bunch.

Also keep in mind, there are several very successful Division III coaches that rarely, if ever, get to see their recruits play a high school game -- Mark Edwards (Wash U) comes to mind.  Yet these coaches still find a way to evaluate, build relationships, and land great recruits.

CCIW coaches will still have the Friday games next year, and all kinds of other ways to get the job done.

I agree on all points. I think that the bottom line on this move by the league is that it's an inconvenience for CCIW men's basketball coaches, but hardly a crisis. I'd be shocked if it has any kind of impact at all in terms of whether or not any local kid in particular ends up attending a CCIW school.

I would also concur.  I've found the conversation interesting (and informative - so far as I can tell, Michigan hs games are played on pretty random days), but also a tempest in a teapot.  Q's comment that Saturdays are likely to be vastly more important than Tuesdays/Wednesdays sounds intuitively right to me.

"A large percentage of recruit visits to CCIW games happen on Saturdays."
"It sees to me like that there are plenty of Saturday home conference games to get the recruits in."
"I aagree on all points."
"Q's comment that Saturdays are likely to be vastly more important than Tuesdays/Wednesdays sounds intuitively right to me."

Au contraire messieurs!

Lets examine TQ's assertions that a "large percentage" of CCIW recruit visits occur on Saturdays and "there are plenty of Sat. home conference games to get the recruits in," using his beloved Illinois Wesleyan Titans as an example.
The Wesleyan 2011-2012 schedule shows a TOTAL of FIVE Saturday home games, with only THREE being CCIW games. This qualifies as a "large percentage" of Saturdays games that allow "plenty" of Saturday home conference games?        
Seems more like a small percentage of games allowing a limited number of opportunities to get recruits in, especially for conference games, on Saturdays. Upon further examination, do these numbers really signify a large percentage and/or plenty of games on Saturdays. I think not.

Furthermore, the number of potential recruits any given institution may be able to host on any given Saturday night will effectively be further reduced by the fact that many HS players wouldn't be able to accept an invitation to attend a Saturday game anyway. This is due to the fact that many HS players are going to have not only a Friday night game scheduled, but one on Saturday as well. In the suburban Chicago area, a majority of HS teams, with some conference exceptions as noted, are going to have a Saturday night game as well as on on Friday anywhere from 1/3rd to 1/2 of the time. This further diminishes the percentage of the limited number of CCIW home Saturday night games a recruit may be able to attend.
Accordingly, it appears strong evidence exists to suggest the assertions that there are "plenty" of Saturday games allowing a "large percentage" of Saturday CCIW recruiting visits are fallacy rather than fact.
Oui?