MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[CCIW ALUM]

Titan Q yes a good source told me that Clayton Cahill was going to be transferring back home to St. Louis for his senior year and attend Fontbonne and play for Steve Schafer who had a part in recruiting Clayton to North Park.

[AndOne]

Mark any updates from the Summer League?  Haven't been able to make it out there yet this year.

Records of CCIW teams in the JOG/Deerfield Summer League after 4 weeks:

North Central   4-0 (Team 1)
Augie               3-1
Carthage          3-1 (Team 1)
IWU                 3-1
North Park       1-3
Elmhurst         1-3

IWU note--Have only noticed Schouten, Reed, Koschnitzky, & Rudnicki there for IWU on a regular basis. I believe they have imported some additional outside help so its difficult to assess the true team performance.

[petemcb]

Someone familiar with a summer league in St. Louis that features a lot of D3 players recently told me that North Park guard Clayton Cahill is playing for the Fontbonne summer league team, and transferring to Fontbonne.  He was also quick to point out that he can't confirm this.

Any word if true, or maybe if Cahill is simply just playing with the Fontbonne guys this summer?

I've heard that is pretty much a done deal.

[petemcb]

I've also heard that, in a potentially intriguingly-related happening, Malcolm Kelly was helping NPU out when they having trouble getting five on the floor for JOG games this summer. 

[AndOne]

I've also heard that, in a potentially intriguingly-related happening, Malcolm Kelly was helping NPU out when they having trouble getting five on the floor for JOG games this summer. 

A lot of that goes on in summer league with players from one school "playing" for another team. Not sure about this year, but last summer Tim McCrary was a CCIW player who played on a different team as Wheaton doesn't even have a team in the league.
Besides, under CCIW rules, Malcolm couldn't transfer to NPU without sitting out a year. Speaking of NPU, it seems odd that with so many of their players from Chi town and the burbs that they have trouble fielding a team. I have not yet seen them play this summer.

[petemcb]

I've also heard that, in a potentially intriguingly-related happening, Malcolm Kelly was helping NPU out when they having trouble getting five on the floor for JOG games this summer. 

A lot of that goes on in summer league with players from one school "playing" for another team. Not sure about this year, but last summer Tim McCrary was a CCIW player who played on a different team as Wheaton doesn't even have a team in the league.
Besides, under CCIW rules, Malcolm couldn't transfer to NPU without sitting out a year. Speaking of NPU, it seems odd that with so many of their players from Chi town and the burbs that they have trouble fielding a team. I have not yet seen them play this summer.

That's true, Mark.  I'm familiar with this summer league and have seen that before.  However, McCrary playing for someone else in the summer when Wheaton doesn't enter a summer team is different from this situation.  Carthage typically runs two or three teams in the summer.  At one point a couple of years ago, they had teams in the JOG league AND the Des Plaines league.  It's not like Kelly is lacking for Carthage playing opportunities this summer.  I am reasonably sure there is more to this story.  We'll see.  And I am familiar with the one year rule.  That doesn't change my view here.

[AndOne]

I've also heard that, in a potentially intriguingly-related happening, Malcolm Kelly was helping NPU out when they having trouble getting five on the floor for JOG games this summer.  

A lot of that goes on in summer league with players from one school "playing" for another team. Not sure about this year, but last summer Tim McCrary was a CCIW player who played on a different team as Wheaton doesn't even have a team in the league.
Besides, under CCIW rules, Malcolm couldn't transfer to NPU without sitting out a year. Speaking of NPU, it seems odd that with so many of their players from Chi town and the burbs that they have trouble fielding a team. I have not yet seen them play this summer.

That's true, Mark.  I'm familiar with this summer league and have seen that before.  However, McCrary playing for someone else in the summer when Wheaton doesn't enter a summer team is different from this situation.  Carthage typically runs two or three teams in the summer.  At one point a couple of years ago, they had teams in the JOG league AND the Des Plaines league.  It's not like Kelly is lacking for Carthage playing opportunities this summer.  I am reasonably sure there is more to this story.  We'll see.  And I am familiar with the one year rule.  That doesn't change my view here.

I understand what you're saying about McCrary and Wheaton not having a team.
Carthage has 2 teams in Deerfield.
North Central also had a team both in Deerfield and Des Plaines a few years ago before Des Plaines became basically an older age player rec league.

Lets examine the scenario you revealed in greater detail. Malcolm Kelly is a 25 year old junior to be who was Carthage's 2nd leading scorer last year. Its not like he is a marginal player for the Redmen which makes the situation even more curious and certainly raises the question, as Pete suggests, as to whether there may be more to this story. Additionally, there is some precedent with "older" Carthage players leaving school before graduation. About 5 years ago CC had a 28 or 29 yr old freshman who played considerable minutes and had a solid season, but who was nowhere to be seen the following season. I also remember a situation where an  older CC player whose matriculation, I believe, was delayed by incarceration, played a couple of years and then disappeared. I may not have the details exactly correct, and these 2 examples may actually be one in the same. However, Kelly would not be the 1st more mature player to leave school early. Should he stay at CC for his remaining 2 years, he would be 27. Should he transfer to NPU and be required by conference rule to sit out a year that would, of course, make him 28 at the time he graduates. Seems like if he is going to leave Carthage it would make more sense to transfer to a non CCIW institution. Perhaps there is an existing behind the scenes situation drawing Malcolm to NPU. Among the things it might be interesting to learn is whether there is any history between Malcolm and the new NPU head coach. And no, I am not suggesting anything sinister on the part of Coach Howard.      

[Dennis_Prikkel]

according to an ELCA news release this morning Carthage President F. Gregory Campbell has announced his retirement (after 24 years) effective August 2012.

[iwu70]

Kean women's grade fixing scandal does sounds like DI.  No place for that in DIII.  Hope the whistle-blower gets his job back. 

Hope everyone is having a good summer, spending many hours on the links.  Blazing hot in Hong Kong.  I'm truly ready for crisp fall Midwestern air.  And, football. 

MLS

[markerickson]

Robinson and Kelly play the same position, but will the former be gone in 2012-13 when Kelly is permitted to play if this rumor is true?

The Kean press release implies the AD was partly responsible for the eligibility hiccup. 

[AndOne]

Robinson and Kelly play the same position, but will the former be gone in 2012-13 when Kelly is permitted to play if this rumor is true?

I believe Robinson was a junior this year, so year he will be gone. Kelly, however, would be an upgrade anyway.

If the report that Kelly has been playing with NPU this summer despite the fact that Carthage has not one but two teams in the Deerfield summer league, it would seem the likely extension of this scenario would find Kelly, Carthage's 2nd leading scorer last season, indeed transferring from Carthage to North Park. Accordingly, if this is how things do indeed ultimately pan out, I believe the situation raises some intriguing questions. I don't know what anyone else might wonder about, but I'd like to know:

1. If Malcolm Kelly wants out of Carthage, why another CCIW school when, by conference rule, he would be forced to sit out this year?
2. What accounts for the specific attraction to North Park which has not exactly been the home of superior basketball over the last several years.? Does he have a strong past relationship with either some of the players,
or new head coach Howard?
3. What, if any, role are finances playing?
4. Is something terribly amiss with his relationship with Carthage as a school, with a teammate or teammates,
with Coach Bosko Djurickovic, or with a combination thereof??        

*And lets not forget that at this point, nothing definite has taken place. Rumors abound on a regular basis. However as previously reported by petemcb, Mr. Kelly apparently HAS already played with the NPU summer team which would seemingly move the situation beyond the mere rumor stage and into the realm of a possibility, maybe even a likely one.

Cathage posters, Greg Sager---Any insight?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

[Gregory Sager]

according to an ELCA news release this morning Carthage President F. Gregory Campbell has announced his retirement (after 24 years) effective August 2012.

Carthage sports will miss him. He's easily the most enthusiastic supporter of his school's sports teams of any CCIW president I've ever seen. I'm going to miss seeing him rise up from the Carthage section in the stands in that goofy fire-engine-red sportscoat of his and bark out, "Goredmen!" as though it was all one word. President Campbell's a colorful man, and a great asset to Carthage's athletics department. Not every D3 institution has a president who is a strong supporter, both publicly and behind the scenes, of his school's sports teams.

Someone familiar with a summer league in St. Louis that features a lot of D3 players recently told me that North Park guard Clayton Cahill is playing for the Fontbonne summer league team, and transferring to Fontbonne.  He was also quick to point out that he can't confirm this.

Any word if true, or maybe if Cahill is simply just playing with the Fontbonne guys this summer?

I've heard that is pretty much a done deal.

I pretty much knew that it was going to happen the moment I heard that Steve Schafer had landed the Fontbonne job. Clayton's very much a homebody. He actually took spring semester of 2010-11 off from NPU to return home to St. Louis. I bear him no ill will, and wish him the best of luck as a Griffin next season.

Speaking of NPU, it seems odd that with so many of their players from Chi town and the burbs that they have trouble fielding a team. I have not yet seen them play this summer.

There is no required commitment, explicit or implicit, for D3 players to participate in summer leagues. It's recommended, of course, but it's not mandatory -- and it's not the number-one priority for a lot of student-athletes. Making the necessary money to pay for college is the number-one priority for many of them ... and North Park doesn't exactly have a lot of trust-fund babies on its men's basketball roster.

If your working hours conflict with your ability to drive up to Deerfield and play basketball in the evening, then you'll work rather than play basketball. Simple as that.

North Park has never had large numbers of players on its summer-league teams, even though NPU typically has a large in-season roster. That was true even when the Vikings were playing in the Broadway Armory league, which, being on the city's North Side right next to a Red Line el stop, was a heck of a lot more convenient, travel-wise, for most of the Vikings than is Deerfield.

Robinson and Kelly play the same position, but will the former be gone in 2012-13 when Kelly is permitted to play if this rumor is true?

D.A. Robinson will be a senior next year, so there's no conflict. There wouldn't be a conflict, anyway, since Malcom Kelly can play, and has played, both guard positions.

If the report that Kelly has been playing with NPU this summer despite the fact that Carthage has not one but two teams in the Deerfield summer league, it would seem the likely extension of this scenario would find Kelly, Carthage's 2nd leading scorer last season, indeed transferring from Carthage to North Park. Accordingly, if this is how things do indeed ultimately pan out, I believe the situation raises some intriguing questions. I don't know what anyone else might wonder about, but I'd like to know:

1. If Malcolm Kelly wants out of Carthage, why another CCIW school when, by conference rule, he would be forced to sit out this year?
2. What accounts for the specific attraction to North Park which has not exactly been the home of superior basketball over the last several years.? Does he have a strong past relationship with either some of the players,
or new head coach Howard?
3. What, if any, role are finances playing?
4. Is something terribly amiss with his relationship with Carthage as a school, with a teammate or teammates,
with Coach Bosko Djurickovic, or with a combination thereof??        

*And lets not forget that at this point, nothing definite has taken place. Rumors abound on a regular basis. However as previously reported by petemcb, Mr. Kelly apparently HAS already played with the NPU summer team which would seemingly move the situation beyond the mere rumor stage and into the realm of a possibility, maybe even a likely one.

Cathage posters, Greg Sager---Any insight?                                                                                                                        

My first insight is that you're spelling the guy's name wrong.   It's Malcom Kelly, without the usual second 'l" found in that name.

My second insight is that your prior speculation about Kelly with regard to older players in the Carthage program is specious. Every student-athlete is a unique case unto him- or herself, so whatever may have happened, or not happened, to prior Carthage basketball players of non-traditional age doesn't really have anything to do with Malcom Kelly. I'm also not sure that it's either germane or appropriate to mention that one of those former Carthage players of non-traditional age may have been incarcerated.

My third insight is that North Park's poor performance in recent years is not a stumbling block in terms of getting transfers there to play basketball. It certainly wasn't for D.A. Robinson, Brett Peterson, or Mike Gabriel -- all current Vikings who began their playing days elsewhere -- or for two of last year's seniors, Shaun Collins and Jorge Gonzalez. There are any number of good reasons why a student-athlete might want to transfer to NPU. If I may toot my alma mater's horn for a moment, it's a good school. It's in a fantastic location in terms of being an educational institution, both because the city itself is such an amazing laboratory for learning and because internship possibilities are practically endless there. Kelly's a criminal justice major, and NPU does have that major as well.

My fourth insight is that, while the cost issue is a plausible guess as to why he might want to switch from the red, black, and white to the royal blue and gold, comparing the cost of a year of schooling at North Park to a year at Carthage -- or to any of the six other CCIW schools -- is currently a bit of an apples-and-oranges proposition. This has been discussed on CCIW Chat  before, but several years ago North Park embarked upon a restructuring of its business model to a more WYSIWYG approach. The cost of tuition and room & board at NPU is significantly lower than it is at Carthage or any of the six other CCIW schools -- but the amount of financial aid given out by NPU is significantly lower, too. The idea was to eliminate the "sticker shock" that a prospective college student (or his/her parents) gets when seeing the cost of a North Park education, thus making the school more competitive with its peers in terms of admissions. (It's turned out to be a very sound strategy for NPU, by the way.) What this means, though, is that it's pretty difficult to compare the final cost, after financial aid has been factored in, between North Park and Carthage in terms of what a particular student (in this case, Malcom Kelly) would have to pay.

My fifth insight is that, as far as I know, Kelly has no strong ties to the North Park men's basketball program that would induce him to play his home basketball from now on at the corner of Foster & Kedzie. He's a Kenosha native, and the only cheesehead on the current NPU roster, Sam Schwartz, is from the suburbs of Madison. I haven't asked Dylan Howard or Chris Edquist if they have any personal connections to Kelly, but I can't imagine that they do. It's all complete speculation at this point, but my initial guess is that if Kelly is indeed transferring to NPU, or contemplating such a move, for basketball reasons it might have as much, if not more, to do with the Carthage men's basketball program than it does with NPU's men's basketball program. Again, though, it's all sheer speculation, and I am in no way insinuating that Kelly may have issues with Bosko, his assistants, or any of the current Red Men.

My final insight is that I'm sure he's well aware of the CCIW transfer rule. If he's pursuing, or contemplating, a transfer to North Park I'm sure that he's factored that in. Perhaps he plans to pursue graduate school after getting his B.A.; North Park has a broader array of graduate programs than does Carthage. He may be poised to graduate before his eligibility is used up, in which case he'd be forced to either continue playing as a grad student at the school from which he graduated -- NCAA rules prohibit grad students from playing for any institution other than the one from which they received their bachelors degree -- or else he'd have to prematurely end his playing career.

I'll add whatever information I can when I get it. As of right now, however, all I know is that Malcom Kelly has played for NPU's summer-league team for whatever reason -- and, as far as that goes, the explanation for his playing for NPU in Deerfield could be something as simple and as harmless as the Vikings needing an extra player on a particular night when they were short-handed.

Rumors can be dangerous things. I would advise us all to proceed cautiously with this one. In my estimation, Malcom Kelly is a Carthage Red Man until compelling evidence indicates otherwise.

[markerickson]

Regarding Greg's fourth point, "tuition discounting" is the name of the game.  Like a car, don't pay the sticker price!  NACUBO - or National Organization of College and University Business Officers - reports annually on the percent four year, private colleges veer from their posted price.  In 2009, the amount discounted hit an all-time high of approx. 41%.  If tuition was $30,000, then the avg paid was "only" $17,700.  DePauw was an example that appeared in an article I read last summer.  Their averaged discount was 59%.

[Gregory Sager]

Nobody's mentioned this yet, but former Augie star Rick Harrigan is the new assistant coach at Elmhurst.

[dansand]

Actually, he was an assistant for the Bluejays last year...and I did mention it.  

Dansand- You beat me to the punch. Nate Swetella's week back in 05-06 was the first thing I thought of when Greg made that post. His game winning put back at the buzzer though was an absolute dagger. I can still picture that exact play in my mind. He was the only one on the right side of the basket and caught the brick and laid it in uncontested. Still hurts.

Your post made me go back and check who threw up the "brick." It was (Elmhurst assistant coach) Rick Harrigan.  He didn't have too many that year (CCIW Player of the Year).

I guess, looking at the play-by-play, Nate's put-back wasn't at the buzzer, but with about four seconds left. Drew Wessels added a couple free throws to make the final 63-60.