MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Thank you for your "Sage-r" wisdom on the topic of the day - GS.

I too, would decry a North Park move to the NAIA.

What happened to Greenville, McKendree, Principia - did they all go D3?

As I said in my earlier post, McKendree went D2. That happened a couple of years ago. As Pete pointed out, Greenville and Principia are D3 members and are part of the SLIAC alongside Eureka, Blackburn, MacMurray, Webster, Westminster (MO), Fontbonne, and Spalding. Greenville and Principia have been D3 members for well over a decade now.

Impressive!  That's a season's worth of posts for a lot of us and coaches haven't even rolled out the first ball yet!

It's the basketball equivalent of spring training for us posters, too.

IWU has their roster up now.  I was surprised to see Ryan Connelly not on the roster.

Bob told this room last spring that Big Country was going to become Big Spectator in 2011-12.

Augie is going to be very tough for everyone this season.

Agreed ... though, as they demonstrated last February, the Rock Islanders are hardly an unbeatable juggernaut.

[Hardwood]

Raul Guzman also missing from Carthage roster.

[AndOne]

Raul Guzman also missing from Carthage roster.

Not surprising considering El Hombre Rotundo was missing in action at the end of last year. He did not appear in the last 9 games of the season due to back spasms which were widely reported to be related to his weight of approximately 290 pounds, after weighing in at about 240 as a freshman. 

Also noteworthy is the fact that the Carthage roster shows only 8 players returning that were listed on the varsity roster at the close of last season.
Junior Tyler Pierce, who was listed as being 230 as a freshman, is now up to 290. 

[John Gleich]

FWIW, McKendree began the transition to D-II last year...

They have an FAQ on their site HERE.

I thought it must have been more recent than a few years ago b/c I recall watching them playing at Wash U's annual tournament two years ago against the hosts when Wash U was ranked #1, coming off their back-to-back titles and they were still referred to as NAIA.


I really appreciate schools who are clear that they've been thoughtful in their process of switching.  I know I've linked to this before, but I love Grand Valley State's dedication and commitment to D-II in this Q&A.  In this day and age of high profile conference switches and schools making jumps across divisions and athletic bodies, it's refreshing to see a school that has contemplated a switch but has determined that where they are is the best spot... and they explain why.

McKendree's FAQ is written in a similar light and I think that it would behoove many athletic programs to be so thoughtful about their athletic programs!

[hopefan]

Point   -   Mckendree D-II, not DIII that you lead with.....

[Gregory Sager]

Raul Guzman also missing from Carthage roster.

Not surprising considering El Hombre Rotundo was missing in action at the end of last year. He did not appear in the last 9 games of the season due to back spasms which were widely reported to be related to his weight of approximately 290 pounds, after weighing in at about 240 as a freshman.

It seems sort of sad that Guzman won't be playing this year, now that you've concocted such a great nickname for him, Mark.  

Also noteworthy is the fact that the Carthage roster shows only 8 players returning that were listed on the varsity roster at the close of last season.
Junior Tyler Pierce, who was listed as being 230 as a freshman, is now up to 290. 

With no Connolly and no Guzman this year, somebody's gotta wear the Big Boy bib overalls in the CCIW for 2011-12.

[AndOne]

Raul Guzman also missing from Carthage roster.

Not surprising considering El Hombre Rotundo was missing in action at the end of last year. He did not appear in the last 9 games of the season due to back spasms which were widely reported to be related to his weight of approximately 290 pounds, after weighing in at about 240 as a freshman.

It seems sort of sad that Guzman won't be playing this year, now that you've concocted such a great nickname for him, Mark.  

Yes, Guzman would have had a chance to be the Comeback player of the Year-----------Just by coming back! 

[AndOne]

Also noteworthy is the fact that the Carthage roster shows only 8 players returning that were listed on the varsity roster at the close of last season.
Junior Tyler Pierce, who was listed as being 230 as a freshman, is now up to 290.

With no Connolly and no Guzman this year, somebody's gotta wear the Big Boy bib overalls in the CCIW for 2011-12.

Perhaps I should have said the Carthage roster shows only 8 and 1/2 players returning.......................     

[John Gleich]

Point   -   Mckendree D-II, not DIII that you lead with.....

Heh... that's what I meant, just a typo.  oops!

[iwu70]

El Hombre Rotundo . . . that's a good one.  Connelly was slimming down, getting in pretty decent basketball shape last year.  But, it was perhaps clear that he couldn't keep up with K-man and Victor Davis. 

Q, any pre-season thoughts on what might happen with the Titans this year, what the rotation might be?  Any freshman with a chance to make serious noise in the varsity scene?

IWU70

[bopol]

Also missing from Carthage's roster are Mike Frey (sophomore guard off bench last year), David Mariani (sophomore forward) and Nick Kladis (freshman guard).  The biggest loss IMO is Kladis who was a pretty capable shooter and played hard on defense, probably even more so than Guzman, who seemed to falling way down the depth chart.  Guzman's value seemed to be derived mostly from being the dish-out man for Steve D and with Steve D gone, Guzman probably didn't have the other skills to contribute in significant ways.

Pierce, even with that size, will be able to contribute if Luke Johnson likes to rebound.  He can clog up defense, has a good back to basket game and is a plus passer. 

Honestly, I'm more worried about the guard play than the forward/center play with the loss of Kladis.  I hope one of the freshman is ready to step up. 

[AndOne]

El Hombre Rotundo . . . that's a good one.  Connelly was slimming down, getting in pretty decent basketball shape last year.  But, it was perhaps clear that he couldn't keep up with K-man and Victor Davis. 

Q, any pre-season thoughts on what might happen with the Titans this year, what the rotation might be?  Any freshman with a chance to make serious noise in the varsity scene?

IWU70

IWU70---

Admittedly, as an IWU outsider, there are others who prob have a better handle on how things will shake out for the green weenies this season, but peaking into my crystal ball right now, I see a starting lineup of Gonzalez at point and J. Zimmer at the 2, with Kevin Reed in the middle and Koschnitzky and Davis at the forward positions. I think Gonzalez' primary backup will be Rudnicki with Jordan being relieved by his younger brother. Based on the rotation late last season, it looks like Ziemnik may be the 1st forward off the bench. Nick Anderson is the only pure center on the roster so I'd look for him to be the 2nd string man in the middle.

I think Dan Schouten is a good all-around player and better shooter that Ziemnik, but he doesn't appear to be one of Rose's favorites. It will be interesting to see the development of Davis who, I believe, was limited by injury last year. When he committed to Wesleyan, Rose pumped him up to the point where he practically proclaimed Davis' ability to walk on water.   

As far as a frosh making a contribution this year, I look for Molinari to have the best chance to do so.

[AndOne]

Also missing from Carthage's roster are Mike Frey (sophomore guard off bench last year), David Mariani (sophomore forward) and Nick Kladis (freshman guard).  The biggest loss IMO is Kladis who was a pretty capable shooter and played hard on defense, probably even more so than Guzman, who seemed to falling way down the depth chart.  Guzman's value seemed to be derived mostly from being the dish-out man for Steve D and with Steve D gone, Guzman probably didn't have the other skills to contribute in significant ways.

Pierce, even with that size, will be able to contribute if Luke Johnson likes to rebound.  He can clog up defense, has a good back to basket game and is a plus passer. 

Honestly, I'm more worried about the guard play than the forward/center play with the loss of Kladis.  I hope one of the freshman is ready to step up.

bopol---

I like what I believe will be the Red Men Redmen (sorry, couldn't resist) starting guard duo of Max Cary and Malcom Kelly. I think the problem at guard for CC this year will be depth. Who can step in when the starters need a rest, are injured, or are in foul trouble? Maybe this question is what you were referring to?

At 290, the Michelin Man is an almost unstoppable force inside on offense. However, u momma could get back quicker on defense, and could go by Pierce like a Porsche by a Yugo if he somehow did manage to get back. He is a definite defensive liability. 

I think Johnson definitely starts, thus sending Bauch to the bench from where he will be a great sub. Look for Pierce to stay in the middle and Johnson to move out to a forward position where I feel he is better suited to play. He has a nice touch and can hit the mid-range shot from outside, whereas Pierce can only put up bricks from more than a few feet away from the basket. Also, Johnson may be 6'9" and 230, but he demonstrated an affinity on several occasions last season to shy away from contact, and play what is commonly referred to as a "soft" game.

[bopol]

Carthage has Johnson, Pierce, Thompson and Bauch for bigs; all of which probably could start and all of which will contribute.  Pierce's size doesn't have to be a liability on D if he is paired up right.  Thompson is a heckuva a leaper and can harass guards coming in for lay-ups, but that require someone else to get back and rebound (major problem for Carthage last year).  That'll be up to Bosko to get everyone aligned to his vision.  If you're right about Johnson, he may present bad matchup problem as a 3, with 2 of Pierce, Thompson or Bauch on the court.

Kelly and Cary are a great pair, but Kelly can get into foul trouble and Cary has had little injuries that slow him down (not to mention he has very 'on' games and very 'off' games).  I'm hoping Dombrowski jumps right into the rotation as well.  Pace Bennett is a servicable CCIW player and maybe Marlon Senior, who has a nice build and skill set for a D3 small forward can develop into a contributor.  Also, there are like 42 other freshman on the roster, so maybe there is a top notch player in the bunch that we aren't aware of yet.

At the end, I'm not worried, I expect that Carthage should be in the top half of the conference.

And, I've said this before, but I think it is bad taste to dog on a college kid and make cute little nicknames for them.  Save them for your buddies, but there is really no need to put them here.  We already know that the players read this (see Malcom Kelly earlier this summer). 

[AndOne]

Carthage has Johnson, Pierce, Thompson and Bauch for bigs; all of which probably could start and all of which will contribute.  Pierce's size doesn't have to be a liability on D if he is paired up right.  Thompson is a heckuva a leaper and can harass guards coming in for lay-ups, but that require someone else to get back and rebound (major problem for Carthage last year).  That'll be up to Bosko to get everyone aligned to his vision.  If you're right about Johnson, he may present bad matchup problem as a 3, with 2 of Pierce, Thompson or Bauch on the court.

Kelly and Cary are a great pair, but Kelly can get into foul trouble and Cary has had little injuries that slow him down (not to mention he has very 'on' games and very 'off' games).  I'm hoping Dombrowski jumps right into the rotation as well.  Pace Bennett is a servicable CCIW player and maybe Marlon Senior, who has a nice build and skill set for a D3 small forward can develop into a contributor.  Also, there are like 42 other freshman on the roster, so maybe there is a top notch player in the bunch that we aren't aware of yet.

At the end, I'm not worried, I expect that Carthage should be in the top half of the conference.

And, I've said this before, but I think it is bad taste to dog on a college kid and make cute little nicknames for them.  Save them for your buddies, but there is really no need to put them here.  We already know that the players read this (see Malcom Kelly earlier this summer).

bopol---

I appreciate the fact that you're behind your team. However, I think it would be wise to mix a little realism in with your optimism.
You bet, Carthage could finish in the top half of the conference. However, they didn't do so last year and all they lost was a D3 FIRST team All-American. Do you honestly feel CC is a better team without him? It could well be that they will have to be to finish in the top half of the conference this season.

Augie lost only Nelson from among its primary contributors. Sure, losing a 6'9" 1st team all-conference center is a big loss. However, they still seem to have an army of bigs who collectively may very well jhave the talent to make up for the considerable wealth of such that was lost with Nelson's graduation. NCC tied for the conference championship with a heavy freshman contribution. They return with a year's worth of valuable experience, and can be expected to be at least as good as last year if not better. Wheaton lost a great shooter, but returns a possible 1st team All-American as well as a more than competent supporting cast. They had 3-4 younger players last year that seem ready to make huge strides and valuable contributions. IWU lost a ton of senior experience and talent, but return a great shooter in Zimmer, a far above average all around player in Koschnitzky, steady point guard play, and, according to their coach, a developing talent destined for greatness. I'm not sure if Elmhurst is a 1st division team, but after seeing them this summer I'll bet they're improved and by no means an easy mark. NPU has athleticism out the wazoo and, if they can learn to play together and remember defense is part of the game is capable of posting a W on any given night.
So yes, Carthage could finish in the top four, but it is by no means a given.

As far as nicknames, lighten up. Last year, 2 of our most prominent posters referred  to the 2 players in question as "embarrassments" to Carthage. The fact is, they were right. Whats worse, being called an embarrassment or being referred to by an accurately reflective nickname?
Remember too that an athlete is normally, and should probably be, a good example of a healthy lifestyle. It seems that by gaining 50 or 60 pounds in just 2 years, these young student-athletes have done anything but set a good example, thus perhaps have well earned nicknames descriptive of their "growth."