MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[bopol]

And one-basically you just repeated what I said, Carthage should be a top half team.  I see Augie and Wheaton in the top tier, IWU, NC and Carthage in a second tier, NP and Elmhurst below that and Millikin, well, hopefully better than last year.  If no one on Carthage rebounds, then all bets are off though.

I'll say this once on nicknames and then I'm not saying anymore.  I think it's crap, and the prominent members of this forum that do it are jerks for doing it.  Defend it however you want, but it's probably part the reason why there are so few participants on this forum.  I know it totally turns me off and is a reason I don't participate more fully.

[iwu70]

Andone, thanks for your take on the IWU rotation/roster.  Seems you may be pretty much on target, though I'll be watching to see how accurate and well-informed you are!  Seems if the younger Zimmer can learn to put the ball on the floor and slash a bit more like his elder brother, you might see both Zimmers on the floor at the same time -- on the wings.  Not sure we're going to get much scoring from other guards, esp. PG, unless one of the freshmen can make a contribution there.  Yes, this is the year that Victor Davis has to prove his mettle, and have a breakout year.  Kman may be called on to do the scoring that we always expected consistently from Sexauer.  Sean Johnson and Sexauer are going to be missed, as they were pretty consistent, pretty good scoring one-two punch in most games.  I have a bit higher hopes for Nick Anderson that you seem to have, esp. now that Big Country has moved to Big Spectator.  The player you have not mentioned who I think could also make a major contribution is Eric Dortch -- both at the 3 and moving even to the 2 in certain sets.  My sense is that Rose is going to change the style of play of the Titans a bit this year and move it even more upspeed, with more fastbreaking.  Of course, the key is going to be getting it off the boards and then out and moving.  Hope the Titans are a much better defensive team this year as well, hopefully developing the kinds of hardnose, tenacious defensive work usually associated with Eliud Gonzeles.  Lots of pieces, intriguing to see how it all comes together, with enough playing time for all these guys to keep them happy and engaged.   We'll see. 

Bopol, come on, man?  Enjoy some laughs . . . you gotta stay light and enjoy some humor through the season.

IWU70

IWU wins big over NPU today, in football, moving to 5-0. . .  -- 40something to 3?  Great game coming up for IWU Homecoming on the 22nd, perhaps two undefeated CCIW records clashing when NC takes on IWU at Tucci Stadium, homecoming game.  Could be for the CCIW crown.  Should be a good one in any case.  ms

[izzy stradlin]

And one-basically you just repeated what I said, Carthage should be a top half team.  I see Augie and Wheaton in the top tier, IWU, NC and Carthage in a second tier, NP and Elmhurst below that and Millikin, well, hopefully better than last year.  If no one on Carthage rebounds, then all bets are off though.

I'll say this once on nicknames and then I'm not saying anymore.  I think it's crap, and the prominent members of this forum that do it are jerks for doing it.  Defend it however you want, but it's probably part the reason why there are so few participants on this forum.  I know it totally turns me off and is a reason I don't participate more fully.

No way NCC and Carthage are in the same tier. The cardinals are the defending cciw (co) champs and have just about everyone back.   Carthage didn't make the conferene tourney and losses the best player they've ever had.

[Titan Q]

Q, any pre-season thoughts on what might happen with the Titans this year, what the rotation might be?  Any freshman with a chance to make serious noise in the varsity scene?

Just my perspective, but I believe two starting jobs are done deals...

G
G - Jordan Zimmer (6-5 SR)
F - John Koschnitzky (6-6 SR)
F
C


Zimmer should enter 2011-12 as one of the best pure shooters in the CCIW.  He was 50-115 (.435) from beyond the arc last season and enters his senior season #7 on IWU's all-time 3-point FG Made list, even though he missed most of the non-conference season last year due to injury:

1. 252         Keelan Amelianovich (104 games) - 2002-06
2. 245         Korey Coon (109 games) - 1996-00
3. 238         Sean Johnson (111 games) - 2007-11
4. 235         Mark Edmundson (113 games) - 1986-90
5. 208         Adam Dauksas (114 games) - 2002-06
6. 179         Bryan Crabtree (114 games) - 1993-97
7. 157         Jordan Zimmer (76 games) - 2008-11

After averaging 11.8 ppg last season as basically IWU's 3rd scoring option, Zimmer should have every opportunity to have a very big senior season.


After being played at both the 3 and the 4 his entire career, I think you will see John Koschnitzky find a permanent home at the 3 this year.  Koschnitzky has had a lot of bad luck with injuries in his career, and his missed a lot of time.  I believe if healthy, he could have a very good senior year.  John had some big games at the end of 2010-11 - he had 18 pts & 8 rebounds in the CCIW tourney game vs NCC and in the NCAA tournament, 12 & 6 vs UW-River Falls and 15 & 10 vs eventual national champ St. Thomas.  Koschnitzky gives IWU a wing with nice size, athleticism, and ability to score both inside and out.

I believe the other 3 starting jobs will be settled via competition during the preseason. 

PG - Eliud Gonzalez (5-9 SR) vs Stephen Rudnicki (6-3 SR)

PF - Victor Davis (6-5 SO) vs Andrew Ziemnik (6-5 SO)

C - Nick Anderson (6-9 SO) vs Kevin Reed (6-7 JR)


And then there are some guys that are probably not in the mix to start, but I believe will earn their way into the varsity rotation.  At the top of this list I'd put:

* Eric Dortch (6-3 SO) - a very athletic "slasher", I can see Dortch backing up Koschnitzky

* Brady Zimmer (6-4 SO) - it's very realistic to see Jordan and Brady account for all 40 minutes at the 2


In terms of IWU's freshmen, I'm hearing very good things about two of the guards - PG David Molinari (Peoria Notre Dame H.S.) and combo guard Connor Wheeler (DuQuoin H.S.) - as well as 6-8 F Drew Blumenshine.  I guess I don't see any of the 3 knocking down the door this season though, based on who is ahead of them right now.  I'd agree that Molinari has the best chance of the 3.

[Titan Q]

I'm excited about IWU's 2011-12 season for a few reasons:


* I've heard some very encouraging things about how hard the returning players worked in the off-season, and how much bigger several of the current sophs have gotten.  I've especially heard this about Victor Davis, Andrew Ziemnik, and Nick Anderson - Anderson is still thin, but he's now 30 pounds heavier than he was one year ago (up to about 230 lbs).


* Ron Rose has some guys from last year's JV team that could emerge as impact varsity players this season (including the names above).  The Titans have a lot of personnel questions heading into the season, and will have a lack of varsity experience at several positions, but I'm confident the talent is there.  While that last nucleus was on the floor, Rose was having good recruiting years.


* The 2011-12 Titans will really be a much different type of basketball team - not as skilled as the Sexauer/Johnson/Rosenkranz-led nucleus, but more athletic, better defensive/rebounding ability, and maybe a little "tougher" overall.


* Jordan Zimmer and John Koschnitzy are good leaders and good players - I'm excited about them getting to be "the guys" this year.  It's also nice to have seniors at PG for 40 minutes -  Gonzalez & Rudnicki aren't flashy but both are very solid.


This is a transition year for sure for IWU, but I think it's the fun kind - the kind where there is a bunch of good talent to fill the gaps and also some good senior leaders to help the young guys.  You never know how one of these kind of years is going to go, but I think the Titans are going to be pretty good.

[Gregory Sager]

And one-basically you just repeated what I said, Carthage should be a top half team.  I see Augie and Wheaton in the top tier, IWU, NC and Carthage in a second tier, NP and Elmhurst below that and Millikin, well, hopefully better than last year.  If no one on Carthage rebounds, then all bets are off though.

I'm with Izzy on this one. I think you're looking at the situation through red-colored glasses, Bopol ... and I don't mean Cardinal red. North Central's definitely a notch above Carthage in terms of both returning personnel and the amount of production that has to be replaced -- although it's interesting to see Mark make no mention of NCC having to replace Brian Evans and the array of factors both tangible and intangible that he brought to the Cards, after two years of Mark's regularly hyping Evans up on CCIW Chat. And, while I think that Wheaton's gonna be tough as usual, I'm definitely not sold on the idea that Wheaton should be mentioned in the same breath as Augie in terms of preseason favorites.

NPU's not gonna get any preseason love this year, and deservedly so. The Vikings will be chock-full of seniors in terms of this year's roster, but it's a senior class that has badly underachieved to date and, as Mark pointed out, has never really learned how to play together. But with a new head coach and a completely new system -- I'm not spelling anything out at this point, but I think that there will be a pretty radical new look to the Park this year -- there's a chance that the seniors could gell and finally find themselves. And they certainly have a good pair of talents to operate around in terms of D1 transfers Mike Gabriel and Mark Holmes. No predictions from me, of course, but I like what I've seen and heard thus far from the new regime at NPU.

[iwu70]

Hey, Q, thanks for the assessment, the background on the incoming Titan roster/rotation.  I'll keep watch on your sage predictions.  I, too, hope that this is the year Nick Anderson, Victor Davis and Eric Dortch really make a good move into the top tier of CCIW players.  Some really good players coming back and I'm also looking forward to watching Jordan Zimmer and K-man have big senior years.  Any thoughts on Schouten or the status/development of Kevin Reed?

Hope to see you at IWU Homecoming in two weeks -- this upcoming North Central - IWU game is going to be a stellar match-up.  I'm really looking forward to it.

All best to you out their in Huskerland. 

IWU70

[AndOne]

And one-basically you just repeated what I said, Carthage should be a top half team.  I see Augie and Wheaton in the top tier, IWU, NC and Carthage in a second tier, NP and Elmhurst below that and Millikin, well, hopefully better than last year.  If no one on Carthage rebounds, then all bets are off though.

I'm with Izzy on this one. I think you're looking at the situation through red-colored glasses, Bopol ... and I don't mean Cardinal red. North Central's definitely a notch above Carthage in terms of both returning personnel and the amount of production that has to be replaced -- although it's interesting to see Mark make no mention of NCC having to replace Brian Evans and the array of factors both tangible and intangible that he brought to the Cards, after two years of Mark's regularly hyping Evans up on CCIW Chat. And, while I think that Wheaton's gonna be tough as usual, I'm definitely not sold on the idea that Wheaton should be mentioned in the same breath as Augie in terms of preseason favorites.

NPU's not gonna get any preseason love this year, and deservedly so. The Vikings will be chock-full of seniors in terms of this year's roster, but it's a senior class that has badly underachieved to date and, as Mark pointed out, has never really learned how to play together. But with a new head coach and a completely new system -- I'm not spelling anything out at this point, but I think that there will be a pretty radical new look to the Park this year -- there's a chance that the seniors could gell and finally find themselves. And they certainly have a good pair of talents to operate around in terms of D1 transfers Mike Gabriel and Mark Holmes. No predictions from me, of course, but I like what I've seen and heard thus far from the new regime at NPU.

bopol---

I certainly did not "basically just repeated" what you said about Carthage's chances to finish in the top 4 in CCIW basketball this season. You said they should, I said they could. I also pointed out the fact that tjey did NOT finish in the top 4 last year and lost a D3 FIRST team All-American from that team and asked if you honestly felt they are a better team without him. You never answered that question.   

greg--

I intentionally stayed away from a detailed analysis of the NCC Cardinals in my response to bopol as I merely wanted to point out to him that I felt Carthage's finish in the top 4 this year is an iffy proposition.
With regard to Brian Evans, I'll just say he was a tremendous overachiever who I feel did not receive as much publicity as he deserved. Thus, I kind of took over as his "front man." And, not to toot my own horn too much, but I feel my hyping of Brian was eventually proven justified as evidenced by his selection to last season's all-conference team.

With regard to NPU, you did acknowledge that I correctly pointed out that over the last few years, they have never really learned to play together.
I also indicated that they have regularly neglected the defensive end of the court. As I learned this primarily from you, I think you will agree.
And, while we're analyzing, I seem to remember a fondness for jacking up threes, often from the twilight zone, with little thought of considering what might be available inside. 

 

[markerickson]

Great news that Gabriel returned.   What is the scoop with Holmes?  I know Wali is not back. 

[Gregory Sager]

With regard to NPU, you did acknowledge that I correctly pointed out that over the last few years, they have never really learned to play together.
I also indicated that they have regularly neglected the defensive end of the court. As I learned this primarily from you, I think you will agree.

I certainly do. They're basically universal observations that've been made by everybody who knows something about hoops that has watched a lot of NPU games over the past three years. Pete says the same things. And the stats certainly bear out NPU's fundamental weakness at the defensive end of the court, although that's more of a corollary of their inability (or refusal) to play together than it is a statement that they lack the capacity to defend as individuals.

And, while we're analyzing, I seem to remember a fondness for jacking up threes, often from the twilight zone, with little thought of considering what might be available inside. 

True as well. But the two most notorious perpetrators of that have moved on. My hope is that the 2011-12 NPU edition will demonstrate better shot selection and clock management in their absence.

Great news that Gabriel returned.

Why wouldn't he?

What is the scoop with Holmes?

He's a 6'6, 215 junior small forward who is the son of former DePaul star Kevin Holmes, who was drafted by the 76ers and spent 12 years playing in pro leagues overseas before returning home to coach at Guerin out in River Grove (where he was also the AD). Two of his sons, Mark being one of them, starred at Guerin and then went on to play at Mississippi Valley State, where Dylan Howard was the assistant coach. Mark appeared in 29 games for the Delta Devils last season, averaging a modest 2.4 ppg and 1.2 rpg in about eight minutes of action per game. The coaches and the other players are expecting big things out of him this year for NPU.

I know Wali is not back.

Yes, the sad truth is that his life circumstances won't allow it. Since he has no family to support him, he has to work full-time in order to put food on the table, a roof over his head, and to pay his tuition as a college student. That doesn't leave any time or energy or resources to be a basketball player as well.

[AndOne]

Andone, thanks for your take on the IWU rotation/roster.  Seems you may be pretty much on target, though I'll be watching to see how accurate and well-informed you are!  Seems if the younger Zimmer can learn to put the ball on the floor and slash a bit more like his elder brother, you might see both Zimmers on the floor at the same time -- on the wings.  Not sure we're going to get much scoring from other guards, esp. PG, unless one of the freshmen can make a contribution there.  Yes, this is the year that Victor Davis has to prove his mettle, and have a breakout year.  Kman may be called on to do the scoring that we always expected consistently from Sexauer.  Sean Johnson and Sexauer are going to be missed, as they were pretty consistent, pretty good scoring one-two punch in most games.  I have a bit higher hopes for Nick Anderson that you seem to have, esp. now that Big Country has moved to Big Spectator.  The player you have not mentioned who I think could also make a major contribution is Eric Dortch -- both at the 3 and moving even to the 2 in certain sets.  My sense is that Rose is going to change the style of play of the Titans a bit this year and move it even more upspeed, with more fastbreaking.  Of course, the key is going to be getting it off the boards and then out and moving.  Hope the Titans are a much better defensive team this year as well, hopefully developing the kinds of hardnose, tenacious defensive work usually associated with Eliud Gonzeles.  Lots of pieces, intriguing to see how it all comes together, with enough playing time for all these guys to keep them happy and engaged.   We'll see. 

Bopol, come on, man?  Enjoy some laughs . . . you gotta stay light and enjoy some humor through the season.

IWU70

IWU70--

U r most welcome. As I said, I have a pretty good handle on most of the CCIW teams with the exception of Millikin due to the fact that they really have no representation here on D3Hoops. Being the only regular NCC poster, I guess the same could be said for NCC if I wasn't around. So, unless another NCC fan steps up, my retirement from the board will bring cheers from my detractors plus little or no further mention of the Cardinals.

As I also indicated, Wesleyan insiders should be able to provide an even more detailed analysis of the Titans. I see that Titan Q, who usually has the most details concerning the Titan team at any given time, attempted to also provide some insight into this year's team. However, much like myself when referencing NCC, he evidently must work under some constraints and remain "politically correct" (admittedly not my strong suit) as evidenced by his refusal to name who he feels will start at the 1,4, and 5 positions. Sure, if one player totally bombs, and another soars once official practice starts, things could change a little. However, even though TQ refused to indicate who he thought will start at those 3 positions, I'll bet he has a good idea. As I said, I can somewhat understand his holding back. But, it would be interesting to see who the guy who knows the Titans the best thinks/feels who, at this given time, would start. He might even agree with me, which would be a rare occurrence indeed!Its not like he would be ostracized by the coaches or players he didn't name if he was wrong. Accordingly, its somewhat surprising that the poster who didn't hesitate to  call a fellow poster an "assclown," won't even venture an opinion as to who will start for his team this season.    

Additionally, you can bet that Ron Rose and his staff already have a decent idea who the starters will be. I'm sure the players are playing in an open gym format nearly every day. And, if you don't think the coaches make brief, but likely frequent, appearances on the balcony to observe the play, you're delusional.
Going back to my previous analysis/opinion, one position I don't see much question about is the 4. Unless Rose is a liar or mentally unbalanced, both of which I doubt, or he is injured, Davis should be the starter at the 4. My opinion about this is based on statements Rose made when Victor committed to IWU. Basically, he said Davis was his number 1 recruit in the state, was better as an entering freshman than several past great IWU players were at that point in their careers or something similar, and could practically walk on water. Heck, some of his praise was so effusive that you wondered why he didn't go D1. I must say that Ziemnick surprised me last year in terms of the amount of PT he garnered later in the season. To me, he was a fabulous HS player, but I felt he was just behind too many experienced players to see much PT last year. Despite this, Rose went with him later in the season over more experienced players like Schouten, Lawson, O'Callaghan, the latter of which I could understand. I also believe Davis was injured at the time, and I think if this had not been the case, Andrew would not have played much. No doubt, he'll be part of the regular rotation this year, but I think it will take a miracle to make him a starter over Davis. I think you are right about Dortch too. He could contribute for sure. The question is how many players does Ron Rose want to play?
Lastly, while I feel Rose will start Gonzalez at PG and Reed in the middle, I personally would start Rudnicki and Anderson, especially if Anderson is up to 230 pounds. Gonzalez is a very good floor general and great ball handler and assist man. However, I think Rudnicki presents the opposition with more problems. I think he is a better shooter, can slash to the basket better than Eliud, and presents a stronger defensive presence that isn't so easy to shoot over as the 5'9" Gonzalez. I suppose it depends on what Rose wants from his PG. At center, I'd start Anderson. I feel Reed has ben an underachiever so far. He can't step out and hit the short to midrange jumper very well, and he is a defensive liability due to his lack of footwork and quickness. Against opponents like NPU's Crosby, and Carthage's Michelin Man, Reed is the choice. Otherwise, an opponent with either a quicker first step, or a good drop step easily goes around Reed and to the basket to either finish easily or dish to a teammate flashing in from the off side.
JMHO. 

[Titan Q]

Unless Rose is a liar or mentally unbalanced, both of which I doubt, or he is injured, Davis should be the starter at the 4. My opinion about this is based on statements Rose made when Victor committed to IWU. Basically, he said Davis was his number 1 recruit in the state, was better as an entering freshman than several past great IWU players were at that point in their careers or something similar, and could practically walk on water. Heck, some of his praise was so effusive that you wondered why he didn't go D1.

As far as Davis being a "number 1 recruit in the state", are you crediting what a website said to Ron Rose? 

http://blogs.suntimes.com/hoopsreport/2010/05/small_college_programs_hitting.html

Illinois Wesleyan secured perhaps the premier Division III in-state recruit in Galesburg's Victor Davis, who could evolve into the "Big Baby" of the Division III ranks. The 6-4 Davis is strong and powerful, rebounds well and will cause mismatches on the floor at the Division III level with his combination of strength and burst for a player his size.


Where did Ron Rose say that Davis "was better as an entering freshman than several past great IWU players were at that point in their careers"?  That does not ring a bell at all.  Here are the Ron Rose quotes about Victor Davis when he committed to IWU that I can find...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/article_53694600-3960-11df-bfc7-001cc4c002e0.html

http://www.galesburg.com/newsnow/x1859641374/Silver-Streaks-Notebook-Relentless-Rose-lands-Victor-Davis


Davis was definitely IWU's #1 recruit in the spring of 2010, and I know Ron Rose was thrilled to land him and thinks he'll be a really good player for the Titans, but aren't you exaggerating quite a bit here?  Or am I missing some quotes?

[Titan Q]

As I also indicated, Wesleyan insiders should be able to provide an even more detailed analysis of the Titans. I see that Titan Q, who usually has the most details concerning the Titan team at any given time, attempted to also provide some insight into this year's team. However, much like myself when referencing NCC, he evidently must work under some constraints and remain "politically correct" (admittedly not my strong suit) as evidenced by his refusal to name who he feels will start at the 1,4, and 5 positions. Sure, if one player totally bombs, and another soars once official practice starts, things could change a little. However, even though TQ refused to indicate who he thought will start at those 3 positions, I'll bet he has a good idea.

Before practice even starts, I have absolutely no idea who will start at the 1/4/5 for IWU this year.  It would seem to me from a very far distance (Lincoln, NE) that all 3 of those position battles are completely up for grabs.  Victor Davis would seem to have a great chance to start at the 4, but Andrew Ziemnik was IWU's backup 4 during IWU's last 5 or 6 games last season.  That is all I have to go on.

I have not spoken to any member of IWU's coaching staff about IWU's potential 2011-12 rotation.  Any projection I would make at this point about the 1/4/5 spots would be a complete guess.  If I had a strong feeling, I'd post it...as I did regarding Jordan Zimmer and John Koschnitzky.

I did get an email from a former IWU player today who thinks freshman David Molinari has a better chance to get in the mix at the PG spot than I suggested.  So sounds like a lot to settle at the 1 for sure.

[bopol]

bopol---

I certainly did not "basically just repeated" what you said about Carthage's chances to finish in the top 4 in CCIW basketball this season. You said , they should, I said they could. I also pointed out the fact that tjey did NOT finish in the top 4 last year and lost a D3 FIRST team All-American from that team and asked if you honestly felt they are a better team without him. You never answered that question.   

Carthage was essentially the same team the last two years.  One year, they won the CCIW and went to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament; the second year they finished tied for third and missed the tournament because of the CCIW's tiebreaker system.  So, I think they were a better team last year than their final record and hence, it isn't a fifth place team replacing a D1 All-American, but a team that probably should have been tied for first replacing an All-American.  They have two fifth team Illinois All-State freshmen coming in (on a list where most of the players were going to D1 teams) and the encourging development of Malcom Kelly and Nick Bauch; I'm pretty ok thinking this is going to be a fine team.

And, you're right; I couldn't follow your incoherant argument on how good you think Carthage is against the rest of the CCIW, so I wasn't right for me to try to repeat in a simple form what you were trying to say.  Maybe next time you can try putting in a concluding sentence or a short summary.  But at least you went a whole post without being degrading towards a student-athlete, so I gotta give you credit for that.

[AndOne]

bopol---

I certainly did not "basically just repeated" what you said about Carthage's chances to finish in the top 4 in CCIW basketball this season. You said , they should, I said they could. I also pointed out the fact that tjey did NOT finish in the top 4 last year and lost a D3 FIRST team All-American from that team and asked if you honestly felt they are a better team without him. You never answered that question.   

Carthage was essentially the same team the last two years.  One year, they won the CCIW and went to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament; the second year they finished tied for third and missed the tournament because of the CCIW's tiebreaker system.  So, I think they were a better team last year than their final record and hence, it isn't a fifth place team replacing a D1 All-American, but a team that probably should have been tied for first replacing an All-American.  They have two fifth team Illinois All-State freshmen coming in (on a list where most of the players were going to D1 teams) and the encourging development of Malcom Kelly and Nick Bauch; I'm pretty ok thinking this is going to be a fine team.

And, you're right; I couldn't follow your incoherant argument on how good you think Carthage is against the rest of the CCIW, so I wasn't right for me to try to repeat in a simple form what you were trying to say. Maybe next time you can try putting in a concluding sentence or a short summary.  But at least you went a whole post without being degrading towards a student-athlete, so I gotta give you credit for that.

bopol---

I clearly indicated that rather than agreeing with your statement that Carthage should make the CCIW tournament this season, I said they could.
Apparently you are unable to comprehend the difference between should and could.

As far as your assertion that "Carthage was essentially the same team the last two years." Really? In 2009-2010 they were 12-2 in the conference, and 24-6 overall. Last year, they went 9-5 in the conference, missed qualifying for the conference tournament after hosting it the previous year, and finished 16-9 overall. Yes, clearly the same team. 

And, while we are on the subject, am I really the incoherENT one of us, or is the term more applicable to the person who accuses me of being incoherANT?      
You asked that I put in a concluding sentence or short summary. Will that do?