MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iim_backk]

bopol- Why are you so worried about Steve being gone? With him gone, Carthage will be more of a team than a one man show. Last year, he would clearly go up to Malcom Kelly and other guards when they had the ball at the top of the key to get it himself. That isn't basketball. The man shot 85% of the time. I mean if the man is shooting that much everyone else isn't going to want to do the dirty work for him while he takes all the glory. Now if Carthage won last year it was said it was because of Steve, if they lost then it was because there was poor rebounding and the team didn't do so hot. C'mon the man is glorified for something that he is supposed to be doing when a program is revolved around you. I've looked at stats and I've gone to a couple games. There are games that he was alright, but what do you expect when the referee gives you every call when you get touched? Any other coach that would yell at the refs like that would be tossed. Steve makes 20 points at the free throw line and 10 points from the field. How does he really only make 10 points from the field when he took more than 15 shots? Anyone will tell you that he wouldn't be able to cut it anywhere else, but since his dad was coach and the program was revolved around him then of course he is going to look successful. Don't get me wrong that there are games that he makes a lot of shots, but on many occassions the TEAM has lost because of his selfishness. This is why he isn't overseas playing anywhere, instead in a GLORIFIED MENS LEAGUE!!!!

ANDONE- Now lets see the history of Carthage basketball in recent years before el hombre rotound, Raul Guzman and Tyler Pierce got there. There weren't many years they were successful. Never made it to the playoffs. Couldn't get anything done. Now when Raul Guzman and Tyler Pierce step on the court with the uniforms, they contribute toward a Sweet 16 as freshmen! Now I am not saying that they did it all by themselves. They acted more as a team because the right players were playing. They wasn;t any sort of favoritism that we seen alst year with players playing crazy minutes. Carthage was more of a team with interchangeable parts. However, I think without these two guys in the 2009-2010 season, games wouldn't have been won and Carthage would have NEVER made the playoffs (Much love to the defensive stopper and 3 point shooter in Cody Hilton). Raul Guzman and Tyler Pierce never came in weighing at 230 or 245 whatever recent posts have posted. They were 290 from the get go.  This is not division one basketball when you have to be in the best shape of your life. There are many high school teams that are better than teams in the CCIW. Many high school teams that are better than D3 basketball teams. So when you say that they came in at a certain weight and gained it all in college, that is a bunch of crap. I feel it is the coaches job to set up a plan or make them get into the gym. Afterall, they were only Freshman! Yea there has to be some sort of commitment from the players to get in the gym themselves, but freshman are not fully matured and coaches always have to keep an eye on them. But of course Coach Bosko hasn't developed anyone lately other than his son. Look at his championships. His players at North Park were players that were kicked out of Division 1 programs (Depaul and Loyola). Anyone that transfers as almost a full team will get games won in the CCIW with ease. Almost like a successful Laker team you can say.

Why are we even talking about Raul Guzman when he isn't even in the picture anymore? He isn't playing in the CCIW anymore so let's move on to players that are:

Please don't name Victor Davis as a great player in the State of Illinois because that is an embarrassment for the players that have come out of this State. The man is very unimpressive with all the hype behind him. Has potential to be better but is nowhere near anything that bloggers have said he is.

Tim McCrary- Probably the best team player in the CCIW right now. He gets his stats while getting his teammates involved as well. He deserves to be an All-American and the minimal press that he gets. Much respect to him and how he carries himself.

Tyler Pierce- Could be at any weight but still gets things done with his back to the basket against these so called centers and power forwards that ARE IN BASKETBALL SHAPE. Actually a joke when you say that he throws up bricks when the man can shoot outside of the arc any given day. However with Raul there he wasn't able to because Raul wanted to shoot and he preferred banging down low. Doesn;t get enough credit for the dishes that he has. If some of the Carthage players had any form of soft hands they would be able to convert on his assists.

Malcom Kelly and Max Cary- Have a very difficult season coming up. They both have to stay motivated and healthy. Have to lead the freshman and the rest of the team to the top of the CCIW. Malcom Kelly never fouls out of games so I don't know where people were saying that he gets into foul trouble.

Mitch Thompson and Nick Bauch- Big season as well. Let's see if Mitch Thompson can stop anyone this year. If you recall Evans had a triple double on him at Carthage and other players usually took it right at his cheat. Too weak to be banging down low. Doesn't have any sort of ball handling to go with his SMALL Foward position, so gentleman make him put the ball on the floor and finish at the basket. As for Nick Bauch, stepped up real big in the place of Raul Guzman lasdt year. AS a freshman go a lot of key rebounds. Also got his behind handed to him against Elmhurst by Steve Crane. Has to get stronger if he plans to bang down low with the Augie forwards and centers.

North Central will not repeat as CCIW co-champs or whatever you want to call it. They were lucky and a lot of teams were looking past them. They snuck up on teams and that was how they were successful in 2010-2011.

Augustana has the best chance of repeating what they did last year if Luke Scarlata can step up. If he steps up big in the spot of Kyle Nelson I see them doing damage in the CCIW and in the playoffs.

Sorry for any mispelling or grammer mistakes, I am not perfect.

GOOOOO AUGGGIIIIEEE!!!!!

[cciwrabblerouser]

Greg,

All those nicknames that you cite were given to very talented Division I players who also were good enough to play in the pros.  Maybe  it's just me, but doing the same to a D-III player, who is not on scholarship, and is playing for the love of the game, seems a bit cold to me.  If the kid is accepted by his coach to be a member of a team, then I struggle with  fans coming up with an unflattering nickname.  What next?  Calling a kid with goggles "Four Eyes?" or maybe a player with a bad case of acne "Pizza Face?"

IMHO, nicknames that point out a physical flaw should not be part of the Division III experience  for any student-athlete.  Just my two cents.

[Hardwood]

bopol- Why are you so worried about Steve being gone? With him gone, Carthage will be more of a team than a one man show. Last year, he would clearly go up to Malcom Kelly and other guards when they had the ball at the top of the key to get it himself. That isn't basketball. The man shot 85% of the time. I mean if the man is shooting that much everyone else isn't going to want to do the dirty work for him while he takes all the glory. Now if Carthage won last year it was said it was because of Steve, if they lost then it was because there was poor rebounding and the team didn't do so hot. C'mon the man is glorified for something that he is supposed to be doing when a program is revolved around you. I've looked at stats and I've gone to a couple games. There are games that he was alright, but what do you expect when the referee gives you every call when you get touched? Any other coach that would yell at the refs like that would be tossed. Steve makes 20 points at the free throw line and 10 points from the field. How does he really only make 10 points from the field when he took more than 15 shots? Anyone will tell you that he wouldn't be able to cut it anywhere else, but since his dad was coach and the program was revolved around him then of course he is going to look successful. Don't get me wrong that there are games that he makes a lot of shots, but on many occassions the TEAM has lost because of his selfishness. This is why he isn't overseas playing anywhere, instead in a GLORIFIED MENS LEAGUE!!!!

ANDONE- Now lets see the history of Carthage basketball in recent years before el hombre rotound, Raul Guzman and Tyler Pierce got there. There weren't many years they were successful. Never made it to the playoffs. Couldn't get anything done. Now when Raul Guzman and Tyler Pierce step on the court with the uniforms, they contribute toward a Sweet 16 as freshmen! Now I am not saying that they did it all by themselves. They acted more as a team because the right players were playing. They wasn;t any sort of favoritism that we seen alst year with players playing crazy minutes. Carthage was more of a team with interchangeable parts. However, I think without these two guys in the 2009-2010 season, games wouldn't have been won and Carthage would have NEVER made the playoffs (Much love to the defensive stopper and 3 point shooter in Cody Hilton). Raul Guzman and Tyler Pierce never came in weighing at 230 or 245 whatever recent posts have posted. They were 290 from the get go.  This is not division one basketball when you have to be in the best shape of your life. There are many high school teams that are better than teams in the CCIW. Many high school teams that are better than D3 basketball teams. So when you say that they came in at a certain weight and gained it all in college, that is a bunch of crap. I feel it is the coaches job to set up a plan or make them get into the gym. Afterall, they were only Freshman! Yea there has to be some sort of commitment from the players to get in the gym themselves, but freshman are not fully matured and coaches always have to keep an eye on them. But of course Coach Bosko hasn't developed anyone lately other than his son. Look at his championships. His players at North Park were players that were kicked out of Division 1 programs (Depaul and Loyola). Anyone that transfers as almost a full team will get games won in the CCIW with ease. Almost like a successful Laker team you can say.

Why are we even talking about Raul Guzman when he isn't even in the picture anymore? He isn't playing in the CCIW anymore so let's move on to players that are:

Please don't name Victor Davis as a great player in the State of Illinois because that is an embarrassment for the players that have come out of this State. The man is very unimpressive with all the hype behind him. Has potential to be better but is nowhere near anything that bloggers have said he is.

Tim McCrary- Probably the best team player in the CCIW right now. He gets his stats while getting his teammates involved as well. He deserves to be an All-American and the minimal press that he gets. Much respect to him and how he carries himself.

Tyler Pierce- Could be at any weight but still gets things done with his back to the basket against these so called centers and power forwards that ARE IN BASKETBALL SHAPE. Actually a joke when you say that he throws up bricks when the man can shoot outside of the arc any given day. However with Raul there he wasn't able to because Raul wanted to shoot and he preferred banging down low. Doesn;t get enough credit for the dishes that he has. If some of the Carthage players had any form of soft hands they would be able to convert on his assists.

Malcom Kelly and Max Cary- Have a very difficult season coming up. They both have to stay motivated and healthy. Have to lead the freshman and the rest of the team to the top of the CCIW. Malcom Kelly never fouls out of games so I don't know where people were saying that he gets into foul trouble.

Mitch Thompson and Nick Bauch- Big season as well. Let's see if Mitch Thompson can stop anyone this year. If you recall Evans had a triple double on him at Carthage and other players usually took it right at his cheat. Too weak to be banging down low. Doesn't have any sort of ball handling to go with his SMALL Foward position, so gentleman make him put the ball on the floor and finish at the basket. As for Nick Bauch, stepped up real big in the place of Raul Guzman lasdt year. AS a freshman go a lot of key rebounds. Also got his behind handed to him against Elmhurst by Steve Crane. Has to get stronger if he plans to bang down low with the Augie forwards and centers.

North Central will not repeat as CCIW co-champs or whatever you want to call it. They were lucky and a lot of teams were looking past them. They snuck up on teams and that was how they were successful in 2010-2011.

Augustana has the best chance of repeating what they did last year if Luke Scarlata can step up. If he steps up big in the spot of Kyle Nelson I see them doing damage in the CCIW and in the playoffs.

Sorry for any mispelling or grammer mistakes, I am not perfect.

GOOOOO AUGGGIIIIEEE!!!!!

Oh my...where to start?

[bopol]

i'm baack,

Great post.  I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but a couple of things I disagree on.

1) Steve D was a really great player.  I don't think he is as good last year as he was as a junior, but he did a lot of remarkable things on the court.  I also think that Bosko had little choice to run the game through him until last year; he just didn't have the ball handlers until he got Malcom Kelly primed up.  I believe that the rebounding in the early CCIW really did kill them.  There was one game (I think it was against Hope) where Hope had possession last down by 1 and I couldn't understand why they took their time getting a good shot because I didn't think anyone on Carthage would rebound it.  Nick Bauch's rebounding near the end of the year and I think that's a big part of Carthage winning their last 5 games.

2) Malcom Kelly played hard and did get himself into foul trouble a few times when it could have been avoided.  I respect the playing hard, but I worry about the guard depth.  That said, he's a very fun player and always gives it all. 

I assume you like Augie for first, but where do you see the others?

[Gregory Sager]

Oh my...where to start?

Where, indeed. There was so much baloney in that post by iim_backk there's enough for everyone who posts here to take a slice. One hardly knows where to begin.

I'll stick for the moment to his dig at Bosko:

But of course Coach Bosko hasn't developed anyone lately other than his son. Look at his championships. His players at North Park were players that were kicked out of Division 1 programs (Depaul and Loyola). Anyone that transfers as almost a full team will get games won in the CCIW with ease. Almost like a successful Laker team you can say.

1. North Park has never had a player who was previously at Loyola, at least not in the 32 years that I've been around the Vikings program. Dennis Prikkel may remember someone who went from Loyola to NPC prior to 1979, but there hasn't been any since.

2. North Park has had two transfers from DePaul, Chuckie Murphy in the early '90s and Sneed Deaderick in the middle of the last decade. Neither one was kicked out of DePaul. Murphy left DePaul of his own accord, as this 1992 Chicago Tribune article makes clear, because he wasn't fitting well into Joey Meyer's rotation scheme and he didn't want to spend his senior season relegated to the Blue Demons bench again. And Sneed Deaderick was a DePaul walk-on who got garbage-time cameos in eight games over the space of two seasons. Like hundreds of other D1 end-of-the-bench guys, he transferred to D3 because he wanted to play rather than sit.

Nobody got kicked out of anywhere.

3. Bosko has not had that many D1 transfers in his career. At North Park he had Danny James ('89-'90), Carlos Harris ('90-'91), and Murphy ('91-'92). At Carthage he's had Jake Olson ('97-'98 and '98-'99), Jarobi Kemp ('98-'99), Greg Ktistou ('99-'00 and '00-'01), Kevin Menard ('04-'05 thru '06-'07 -- and I don't think he was even on the basketball team when he was at Marquette), and Brian Schlemm the two years after Menard. That's not a lot of D1 players for someone who's been a head coach for almost a quarter-century ... and there's almost no overlap between any of them. "Anyone that transfers almost as a full team"? Yeah, right.

4. I can't think of a single Bosko team, either at North Park or at Carthage, that's had more than two transfers in the starting lineup for the better part of a season.

5. Neither of Bosko's national championship teams at North Park had a D1 transfer on the roster. And only one of his six CCIW championship teams -- the 1999-2000 Carthage team -- had a D1 transfer (Greg Ktistou).

6. The 1984-85 NPC national championship team had two transfers in the rotation, after former North Central swingman Terry Egan broke his leg in mid-season and was lost for the year. One was the backup center, a juco product who never saw more than five or six minutes on the floor per game. Granted, the one remaining transfer (D2 refugee Ernie Hubbard) was absolutely huge for the Park, but by and large it was a team made up of four-year Vikings.

7. The 1986-87 NPC national championship team had three very important transfers -- Michael Starks, Mike Barach, and Myron Starks -- but they were juco transfers. None of them were someone else's finished product when they arrived at the corner of Foster & Kedzie and were taken under Bosko's wing, which leads to perhaps your craziest point of all ...

8. The implication that Bosko doesn't develop players, that he merely enlists the services of transfers who've been schooled in the game by other coaches, is completely laughable. Say what you will about Bosko Djurickovic, a very complicated man who has his flaws just like the rest of us, but the idea that he isn't a teacher completely flies in the face of his public persona. Parents send their kids to Carthage because Bosko has a reputation for being a master teacher of the game of basketball. Teaching the game is his strong point. Ask anyone who has been around this league.

9. "Bosko hasn't developed anyone lately other than his son"? That's a spurious charge. Every player is different, and nobody develops unless he already has the inner drive to do so. But I look at players like Pat Kalamatas, Billy Jacklin, Jon Cieski, Cody Hilton, players who turned out to be more than I thought they'd be initially, and I can't help but think that Bosko had a hand in their development. Also, the "except his son" part is patently absurd. You may condemn Steve Djurickovic as selfish -- a charge with which I do not agree -- but you cannot deny that he was both a consummately skilled player and a floor leader who was chock-full of basketball smarts. Saying that Bosko hasn't developed anybody lately except for his kid is like saying that summer isn't hot, except for June, July, and August. Steve Djurickovic was many things as a basketball player, and he himself deserves the lion's share of credit for his accomplishments, but you also can't deny that he was a walking advertisement for his father's ability to teach the game.

As I said, that post by iim_backk was loaded with baloney. Anyone else who wants to cut out a different slice and then pick out all the errors, please feel free.

[bopol]

As I said, that post by iim_backk was loaded with baloney. Anyone else who wants to cut out a different slice and then pick out all the errors, please feel free.

Yes, because the goal should be to drive out any new poster with a competing point of view to your own encyclopedic knowledge of CCIW basketball.  He may be wrong on Bosko, but his points on the current players on Carthage were interesting and well thought out, but please push another poster away to prove you're the smartest guy in the room, so that I'm left with another season where all this board offers is adolescent humor and your overwhelming arrogence.

[John Gleich]

As I said, that post by iim_backk was loaded with baloney. Anyone else who wants to cut out a different slice and then pick out all the errors, please feel free.

Yes, because the goal should be to drive out any new poster with a competing point of view to your own encyclopedic knowledge of CCIW basketball.  He may be wrong on Bosko, but his points on the current players on Carthage were interesting and well thought out, but please push another poster away to prove you're the smartest guy in the room, so that I'm left with another season where all this board offers is adolescent humor and your overwhelming arrogence.

With all due respect bopol, no one's comments drove iim_bacck from the board... that user seemingly created a persona for the post and the promptly closed the account before there was any response to the lengthy post.

It's effectively the internet version of littering.  This is a DISCUSSION board... and iim_bacck clearly has no intention of contiuing discussion on any of the matters that he/she brought up.

They clearly have no interest in being accountable for their statements.  And in that regard he/she used the veil of internet anonymity to ensure that they aren't held accountable for those words.

Look, there are several users on the board who make no bones about who they are and where their affiliation lies.  It leaves them open to criticism from anonymous posters who feel they can say whatever they'd like.

At the very least you have to admit that several of the comments are controversial, some even perhaps intending to incite comments.  To just turn tail and run away isn't a laudible quality and certainly not something that has been the hallmark of these message boards.  It really shouldn't be encouraged.

It would be drastically different if the poster had stuck around to discuss their points... but they didn't so we have to take them at their actions as a nuisance rather than a contributor to the board.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

I love baloney - on sandwiches only.

Hot air - on the other hand - i'm very good at sending out of both ends.

Having said that - the only team in the CCIW I can ever remember starting an entire team of transfers, was an Augustana team in the early fifties.  Pete Peterson used to tell this story.

At the time North Park was a junior college and many of the Swedes went on to Augiestana to get whatever kind of degree Augie was offering in farming at the time.  Anyhow, as Pete used to tell, there was one year when Augustana started five transfers from North Park JC for several games.

At one time Augustana and North Park shared hundreds of dual alumni.

Just a little historical sidebar that has nothing to do with the cold cuts served earlier here. 

[markerickson]

What cracked me up more than anything in the ludicrous post was the statement that Carthage never made it to the playoffs in the pre-Pierce/Guzman era.  Dialing Garnes, McDaniel, and Wiertel...

A statement that the Redmen never made it to the playoffs in the pre-Bosko era would be more accurate although I am uncertain about "never."  I do know NPC had a 30+ game win streak against Carthage while Bosko coached the Vikings.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

What cracked me up more than anything in the ludicrous post was the statement that Carthage never made it to the playoffs in the pre-Pierce/Guzman era.  Dialing Garnes, McDaniel, and Wiertel...

A statement that the Redmen never made it to the playoffs in the pre-Bosko era would be more accurate although I am uncertain about "never."  I do know NPC had a 30+ game win streak against Carthage while Bosko coached the Vikings.

Actually 33 consecutive games versus both Carthage & Elmhurst at the same time that started in the McCarrell era and went all the way through the Bosko era, but North Park had 19 consecutive 15 win or more seasons from 1976 to 1994.

[bopol]

There's no denying Bosko seems to be a great teacher of the game.  I half agree with 'i'm back's' analysis on Carthage.  Steve was a great player in D-3. Period.  He also did take the lion's share of shots and got to the free throw line an uncanny amount of times.  Is that due to his scrawny stature?  Maybe.  Is that due to Bosko riding the refs?  Maybe.  But what coach doesn't do that.  It seems like Steve had a great court sense and knew how to use his body around the basket.  So much of a foul call is how it looks and sounds to the ref and whenever you flail your body yell you are more likely to get a call.  But Steve was as good a passer as you could have.  He did have the ball in his hands at some point on every single possession that Carthage had so that makes it easier to put up the stats he did.  Still a great D-3 basketball player as noted by all his accomplishments

All that being said, I think Carthage will be a better team this year by sharing the basketball.  Some of the best teams are teams that have 4 solid 8-13 ppg guys which Carthage can certainly have.  If you have 4 or 5 guys who could all have 20 point nights on any given night, you're going to be harder to guard.  And I think Carthage appears to have that with Kelly, Cary, Pierce and Thompson based on their experience.

Steve was the best I've ever seen at this level at creating his own shot and one of the best of drawing contact driving to the hoop.  He got the whistles because he was fouled so much.  They could be better this year, but they will need consistantly good play out of Max Cary and they haven't gotten that the last two years because of illness, injuries and, well, inconsistancy. 

[bopol]

With all due respect bopol, no one's comments drove iim_bacck from the board... that user seemingly created a persona for the post and the promptly closed the account before there was any response to the lengthy post.

It's effectively the internet version of littering.  This is a DISCUSSION board... and iim_bacck clearly has no intention of contiuing discussion on any of the matters that he/she brought up.

They clearly have no interest in being accountable for their statements.  And in that regard he/she used the veil of internet anonymity to ensure that they aren't held accountable for those words.

Look, there are several users on the board who make no bones about who they are and where their affiliation lies.  It leaves them open to criticism from anonymous posters who feel they can say whatever they'd like.

At the very least you have to admit that several of the comments are controversial, some even perhaps intending to incite comments.  To just turn tail and run away isn't a laudible quality and certainly not something that has been the hallmark of these message boards.  It really shouldn't be encouraged.

It would be drastically different if the poster had stuck around to discuss their points... but they didn't so we have to take them at their actions as a nuisance rather than a contributor to the board.

Maybe, but there was a Carthage poster that jumped ship really fast after being jumped on by the usual suspects last season, which was a bummer, because there is no one on this board (except for me and I'm irregular) that is a Carthage fan.  This guy wasn't clueless about Carthage's players, so I'd like him to hang around, even if I don't agree with him on everything. 

[Titan Q]

First day of practice.

Game on!

[Titan Q]

Per sources close to Titan Q, a big recruiting commitment early in the school year.  6-6 PF Michael Berg from Midwest Central (alma mater of Ryan Knuppel and Ryan Burks) has verbally committed to Mike Schauer and the Wheaton Thunder.

A former all-CCIW player recently told me Berg is a "1st team all-CCIW/MOP candidate"-type player.  He averaged 18.9 pts and 10.5 rebounds per game as a junior and made all of the 2A all-state teams.  Berg should have a huge senior year.

http://www.ncsasports.org/mens-basketball-recruiting/il/manito/midwest-central-high-school/michael-berg  (video)

http://www.pjstar.com/preps/players/x1672075782/2010-11-Journal-Star-small-schools-all-area-basketball-team

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/preps/x1777794268/Midwest-Central-junior-makes-AP-all-state-team

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/preps/x1651500019/Midwest-Central-junior-working-on-bulking-up-his-frame-as-well-as-his-game


Berg was recruited by almost every CCIW school as well as dozens of other small colleges.  Sounds like a big pickup for Wheaton.

[Titan Q]

My first day of practice CCIW ranking...

1. Augustana
2. North Central
3. Wheaton
4. Illinois Wesleyan
5. Carthage
6. North Park
7. Elmhurst
8. Millikin


I found it very easy to slot Augustana 1 and North Central 2.  These teams shared the title last year at 11-3 and return a ton.

After that it was a crapshoot really.