MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[frodotwo]

This is a team that lost four starters from last year and yet they nearly pulled off an upset on the home court of the best the CCIW has to offer.

From 9:04 in the 2nd half until 0:48 to play Augustana led by 8 points or more.  In the final 9+ minutes UW-Stevens Point was never even in a two possession game with the ball until the 0:16 mark when Augie made 1 of 2 FT's to go up 6 and UWSP got the ball.

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/2011-12/12mbb08.htm

I watched the game with no dog in the fight whatsoever and certainly don't feel like the Pointers "nearly pulled off an upset" last night.

Not sure where that Stevens Point team is suppose to finish at in their conference but i would have trouble believing top 3. They are a two man team . . . the two brothers, 4 and 14 are all they have.  The rest of the team was aver to below average.  4 could score on the bounce, going only to his left, but his outside shot was broke.  14 is pretty solid from everywhere, real good player.  He needs to check the attitude though.  No need for the '3 in your eye' hand gesture when your team is trailing by 11.  The shot was meaningless but he felt the need to c--k off for some reason - act you have hit a shot before. Augie struggled mightily to  stop these two though as they do with most good guards - see St. Thomas game and anytime they have faced Steve D (Carthage).  Not sure Augie knows how to take a charge either, 4 took it right down the middle numerous times and it looked like the parting of the Red Sea.

Personally i don't think the ball goes inside nearly enough.  Scarlatta needs more looks as does Dexter and Norton.  I am a big fan of Dexter (Showtime Dexter too!) - solid player but doesn't get many chances.  I thought Desimone played his best game of the year tonight.  If this team wants to go deep into the postseason he is going to need to start clicking offensively.  Anderson seems to have taken a step backward.  Not sure what happened with him.  He has a lot of talent but can't seem to get anything going.  After the first few games this year i thought this team was going to special.  Not so sure now, just not enough shooters on the team.  Need Harrigan to get the tie off and suit up again.  I still think they are the class of the CCIW but that isn't saying much this year.  If Voiles continues his struggles along with the rest of the team from the outside they will be one and done in March.  Here's to hoping someone can step up!

So is this a criticism of Point or Augie? If Point is not top 3 in their league the Vikings better hope they don't have to play the best in the WIAC come tourney time. While the Tillema brothers are the stars of the team, all the starters came in to this came averaging 9 ppg or better, some of them just had off nights shooting the ball. Open shots weren't falling in the second half. This is a team that lost four starters from last year and yet they nearly pulled off an upset on the home court of the best the CCIW has to offer. The Augie student section was loud and boisterous (I'm envious of the support they give compared to Point's students) and so was their coach. How he gets away with his antics (swearing, etc.) without getting T'd up is a mystery to me. Anyway, I thought UWSP played a credible game against a much taller team and could have pulled off the upset if only a couple of more shots had fallen.

I know, if only, maybe, perhaps   

[AUGIEBBALL]

Not sure where that Stevens Point team is suppose to finish at in their conference but i would have trouble believing top 3. They are a two man team . . . the two brothers, 4 and 14 are all they have.  The rest of the team was aver to below average.  4 could score on the bounce, going only to his left, but his outside shot was broke.  14 is pretty solid from everywhere, real good player.  He needs to check the attitude though.  No need for the '3 in your eye' hand gesture when your team is trailing by 11.  The shot was meaningless but he felt the need to c--k off for some reason - act you have hit a shot before. Augie struggled mightily to  stop these two though as they do with most good guards - see St. Thomas game and anytime they have faced Steve D (Carthage).  Not sure Augie knows how to take a charge either, 4 took it right down the middle numerous times and it looked like the parting of the Red Sea.

Personally i don't think the ball goes inside nearly enough.  Scarlatta needs more looks as does Dexter and Norton.  I am a big fan of Dexter (Showtime Dexter too!) - solid player but doesn't get many chances.  I thought Desimone played his best game of the year tonight.  If this team wants to go deep into the postseason he is going to need to start clicking offensively.  Anderson seems to have taken a step backward.  Not sure what happened with him.  He has a lot of talent but can't seem to get anything going.  After the first few games this year i thought this team was going to special.  Not so sure now, just not enough shooters on the team.  Need Harrigan to get the tie off and suit up again.  I still think they are the class of the CCIW but that isn't saying much this year.  If Voiles continues his struggles along with the rest of the team from the outside they will be one and done in March.  Here's to hoping someone can step up!

So is this a criticism of Point or Augie? If Point is not top 3 in their league the Vikings better hope they don't have to play the best in the WIAC come tourney time. While the Tillema brothers are the stars of the team, all the starters came in to this came averaging 9 ppg or better, some of them just had off nights shooting the ball. Open shots weren't falling in the second half. This is a team that lost four starters from last year and yet they nearly pulled off an upset on the home court of the best the CCIW has to offer. The Augie student section was loud and boisterous (I'm envious of the support they give compared to Point's students) and so was their coach. How he gets away with his antics (swearing, etc.) without getting T'd up is a mystery to me. Anyway, I thought UWSP played a credible game against a much taller team and could have pulled off the upset if only a couple of more shots had fallen.

The quick answer is both.  Both teams are over rated, for whatever ratings are worth. Augie should be around 15-20 range and UWSP shouldn't get a sniff.  If that is the best the WIAC has to offer, well the WIAC is in even worse shape than the CCIW.  Don't think there will be any national title contenders from either conference.

[Titan Q]

The quick answer is both.  Both teams are over rated, for whatever ratings are worth. Augie should be around 15-20 range and UWSP shouldn't get a sniff. 

So can you list 14-19 Division III teams that you think are better than Augustana?  Because to say Augie "should be around the 15-20 range" is one thing, but can you actually identify all of the teams you think should be ranked higher?

For help picking teams, here are links to the D3hoops.com Top 25, as well as the D3 Basketball Index (if you like a numbers-based poll)...

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2011-12/week2

https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/top-75


Interested to hear what you come up with.

[John Gleich]

The quick answer is both.  Both teams are over rated, for whatever ratings are worth. Augie should be around 15-20 range and UWSP shouldn't get a sniff.  If that is the best the WIAC has to offer, well the WIAC is in even worse shape than the CCIW.  Don't think there will be any national title contenders from either conference.

FWIW, the WIAC is 36-15 in non-conference play (70.6%)

That isn't as high as it has been in recent years (they were up in the 80-85% range).

Stevens Point is likely the #3 team in the WIAC, behind Whitewater and River Falls.  But all three teams have had to sort of figure out their identities after losing key pieces from last years' teams.  Stevens Point alone lost 11 guys off of last year's roster due to graduation, attrition, and the "Lance Randall situation" that, had it not happened, would have kept a preseason All-American PG on Stevens Point's roster.


We are a long, long way away from any team being a national title contender... the teams that win national titles get it together in February, not December.

[John Gleich]

The quick answer is both.  Both teams are over rated, for whatever ratings are worth. Augie should be around 15-20 range and UWSP shouldn't get a sniff. 

So can you list 14-19 Division III teams that you think are better than Augustana?  Because to say Augie "should be around the 15-20 range" is one thing, but can you actually identify all of the teams you think should be ranked higher?

For help picking teams, here are links to the D3hoops.com Top 25, as well as the D3 Basketball Index (if you like a numbers-based poll)...

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2011-12/week2

https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/top-75


Interested to hear what you come up with.

This is an excellent point Bob.

I think that we often compare current teams to past ones and the images we have of those past teams are images at the end of the year.  That, and those players were older, bigger, stronger, etc... because, frankly, they WERE older, bigger, and stronger... they had another entire year under their belt that current teams don't have.

[Gregory Sager]

The quick answer is both.  Both teams are over rated, for whatever ratings are worth. Augie should be around 15-20 range and UWSP shouldn't get a sniff.  If that is the best the WIAC has to offer, well the WIAC is in even worse shape than the CCIW.  Don't think there will be any national title contenders from either conference.

FWIW, the WIAC is 36-15 in non-conference play (70.6%)

That isn't as high as it has been in recent years (they were up in the 80-85% range).

Both leagues are down from their previous levels. I would argue, pro PS and contra Augiebball, that the CCIW's drop has been steeper.

Stevens Point is likely the #3 team in the WIAC, behind Whitewater and River Falls.  But all three teams have had to sort of figure out their identities after losing key pieces from last years' teams.

I agree with this as well. I've seen UWW, and I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how the Warhawks have stayed undefeated. They're not horrible or anything, but they're a shadow of the formidable UWW teams of the past that I've grown used to seeing. And the Pointers, of course, have fallen off quite a bit as well from their lofty standards of a few seasons ago, as anyone who saw yesterday's game online can attest.

We are a long, long way away from any team being a national title contender... the teams that win national titles get it together in February, not December.

PS is batting 3-for-3 in my book. I totally agree with his statement about national championship teams.

[AUGIEBBALL]

The quick answer is both.  Both teams are over rated, for whatever ratings are worth. Augie should be around 15-20 range and UWSP shouldn't get a sniff. 

So can you list 14-19 Division III teams that you think are better than Augustana?  Because to say Augie "should be around the 15-20 range" is one thing, but can you actually identify all of the teams you think should be ranked higher?

For help picking teams, here are links to the D3hoops.com Top 25, as well as the D3 Basketball Index (if you like a numbers-based poll)...

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2011-12/week2

https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/top-75


Interested to hear what you come up with.

obviously don't get the chance to watch d3 basketball from all-around the country.  that is based on 30+ years of watching d3 level basketball and where teams in the CCIW (and a little bit of WIAC ball thrown in) have finished since rankings started.  i can put down 20 teams if that will appease you though?  If i do though i want you to provide your argument as to why each team shouldn't be ahead of Augie.

[Titan Q]

obviously don't get the chance to watch d3 basketball from all-around the country.  that is based on 30+ years of watching d3 level basketball and where teams in the CCIW (and a little bit of WIAC ball thrown in) have finished since rankings started.  i can put down 20 teams if that will appease you though?  If i do though i want you to provide your argument as to why each team shouldn't be ahead of Augie.

I promise I am not trying to be a smart ass on this, but yes, I'm curious which 20 teams you'd come up with...based on 2011-12 information (not name brand).

[AUGIEBBALL]

The quick answer is both.  Both teams are over rated, for whatever ratings are worth. Augie should be around 15-20 range and UWSP shouldn't get a sniff.  If that is the best the WIAC has to offer, well the WIAC is in even worse shape than the CCIW.  Don't think there will be any national title contenders from either conference.

FWIW, the WIAC is 36-15 in non-conference play (70.6%)

That isn't as high as it has been in recent years (they were up in the 80-85% range).

Stevens Point is likely the #3 team in the WIAC, behind Whitewater and River Falls.  But all three teams have had to sort of figure out their identities after losing key pieces from last years' teams.  Stevens Point alone lost 11 guys off of last year's roster due to graduation, attrition, and the "Lance Randall situation" that, had it not happened, would have kept a preseason All-American PG on Stevens Point's roster.


We are a long, long way away from any team being a national title contender... the teams that win national titles get it together in February, not December.

I agree, a lot can happen and players/teams can catch fire at the right time.  Just speaking to Augie here as i don't see Stevens Point much, I don't see it happening with the collection they have now.  Trust me, i hope i am wrong, i just don't see it.  i'll be the first to come on here and admit if i am come spring time.

[carthagealum]

Final in Kenosha: Carthage 75, Coe 61.

http://athletics.carthage.edu/news/2011/12/11/Mens_Basketball_1211110632.aspx

[MoEv27]

If you beat quality teams in your home gym...and you lose to quality teams away from your gym, are you a really good team?  Or simply a team that can beat anybody on your home court?

[augiefan]

From my perspective any win over a WIAC team is a good win no matter what season we are talking about. I am happy top accept last night's Augie win. As for rankings the only one that matters comes up in March. Down year or not I think there will be at least 2 WIAC teams and 2 CCIW teams in the NCAA tourney.

[augie_superfan]

For what it's worth, my system is updated through today's games: https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/

Now, there are many interesting rankings, especially with not a ton of games played yet but here are the CCIW rankings (rank out of 409 teams):

#4      Augustana
#5      Wheaton
#9      Illinois Wesleyan
#99    Carthage
#105  Elmhurst
#167  North Central
#201  North Park
#342  Millikin

[jaybird44]

Back to TitanQ:

I think your comparisons are very good, and the evaluations from them.  I think the game may be won or lost at the point guard position.  Eliud is off to a good start, and our twin pointers (Hoener-Aboona) will have to continue to make good decisions and make some open shots to counter him.

A wild-card is Cooney.  He is off to a rough start offensively, and he may end up becoming a player similar to Cameron Smith of the not-so-distant past...a defensive and rebounding ace, with an occasional nod to score points.  Cooney will need to focus his scoring efforts inside the paint on drives to the basket or on short jumpers or putbacks.  If he is able to clamp down on Zimmer without getting into early foul trouble, then he has a chance to influence the game toward Wash-U's favor.

One other note regarding Palucki...he has taken advantage of his starting role, scoring 12 points in each of his last 2 games, and averaging 10 rebounds in those games.  Klimek will be out for a while with his injury, so Palucki got first dibs on the opening.  Nick Burt is gaining confidence, with contributions off the bench.  But, we'll have to see how the freshmen fare when the joint is jumping Saturday night at the Shirk!

[AndOne]

If you beat quality teams in your home gym...and you lose to quality teams away from your gym, are you a really good team?  Or simply a team that can beat anybody on your home court?

If you beat quality teams at home and lose to quality teams on the road, thats pretty much of a wash. You're an average team at that point.
Going forward, if you also beat bad teams both at home and on the road, overall you might well be an above average team. A really good team---NOT.