MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[shepherd]

The next two games for Wheaton will decide if Wheaton will continue to compete for the division title.  @ Augustana then hosting Ill Wesleyan.

IMHO : Wheaton will be as good as their passing game is.  Which has been great to terrible all season.  They need more passing and less dribbling which causes them to have turnovers and bad shot selection.  When there playing their best their passing in and out of the paint and around the horn for a good  quick shot.

Go Thunder!

[iwu70]

Given the two breakout performances by Mssr. Musselman and the comments here on the board, one can see why Titan fans are so optimistic about the next few years of Titan men's basketball.  We have a deep group of sophomores and freshman, perhaps one of the deepest, most talented groups in the last decade or so.  I totally agree with Q that Musselman is a very different type of player than Ryan Connolly, who I also loved, felt had a big upside had he stayed out for basketball this year.   My personal hope actually would be to see Ryan and Dan Schouten back in the IWU program next year.  Musselman is far far more skilled and polished offensively than Connolly was, even at his best moments last year.  Yes, Musselman can of course improve greatly, get more fit, quicker, but even now he's amazingly light-footed, has a great positional sense and knows where to be as a rebounder and a big running the floor.  His range of shooting is exceptional, a better trey shooter than Ziemnik or Davis, probably as good as Kman or Rudnicki at shooting treys.  He really stretches defenses given who is usually guarding him.  He's a good passer (especially entry passes to the post area) with very soft hands, good court vision.  Given the up and down games that Victor Davis and Nick Anderson have had, I wouldn't be too too surprised to see Parker get more minutes, be put into the regular rotation of bigs, and/or used situationally given needed spark to take advantage of matchups etc. by Coach Rose.  Glad to see Molinari back too, though he didn't play at EC.  He was playing pretty well for a true freshman before his injury, missing about 5-6 games.  Kevin Reed continues to play well, consistently with 8-12 points and good rebounding.   Actually, Reed and Musselman are more similar in rebouding and offensive skills, save for the fact that Kevin is not a trey shooter.  Reed is a junior so comes back next year too.  Yes, we lose Kman, Gonzalez, Rudnicki and J. Zimmer to graduation, big losses all, but think of all the players, the depth that IWU will have coming back, much of it battle tested with many varsity minutes, much of it for 2-3 more years of CCIW play.  Brady Zimmer gets healthy . . . and I have high hopes for several other of the JV squad to be very good CCIW varsity players in the coming few years -- i.e.  Overstreet, Heyan, Wiggs and Wheeler (if he gets healthy), to be exact.   Hope I got all the spelling correctly, even for the 5:15 squad!  And, I haven't mentioned Mayberger and Oswald, who also return next year.  Dortch is only a sophomore, and has a tremendous further upside, too, especially if he can develop his offensive game, mid-range shooting, trey shooting, . . . to go along with his tremendous defense, slashing, and rebounding abilities.   It's pretty easy to be optimistic with such depth and talent sticking around for 1-3 years more. 

Musselman, IMHO, could be in future years an all-CCIW player.  Again, I'd love to see Connolly and Schouten return . . . just say'in.  If they all came back, IWU's bigs lineup would look more like an Augie squad than the traditional IWU squads with talented, smaller wing players, perimeter shooters.  I think we'll be seeing more pounding of the post in the future.

First half of the CCIW race almost in the books.  It's going to be a very exciting and challenging second half.  I agree that NCC has the better second half schedule, a bit tougher for IWU and WC.  Augie is still in it but has a steep climb to get fully back into the CCIW race.   Big big game for them coming up at home vs. WC.  Of what I've seen of the games so far @ Shirk, Carthage is the toughest team in the second tier of the league. 

IWU70

[Mr. Ypsi]

Given the two breakout performances by Mssr. Musselman and the comments here on the board, one can see why Titan fans are so optimistic about the next few years of Titan men's basketball.  We have a deep group of sophomores and freshman, perhaps one of the deepest, most talented groups in the last decade or so.  I totally agree with Q that Musselman is a very different type of player than Ryan Connolly, who I also loved, felt had a big upside had he stayed out for basketball this year.   My personal hope actually would be to see Ryan and Dan Schouten back in the IWU program next year.  Musselman is far far more skilled and polished offensively than Connolly was, even at his best moments last year.  Yes, Musselman can of course improve greatly, get more fit, quicker, but even now he's amazingly light-footed, has a great positional sense and knows where to be as a rebounder and a big running the floor.  His range of shooting is exceptional, a better trey shooter than Ziemnik or Davis, probably as good as Kman or Rudnicki at shooting treys.  He really stretches defenses given who is usually guarding him.  He's a good passer (especially entry passes to the post area) with very soft hands, good court vision.  Given the up and down games that Victor Davis and Nick Anderson have had, I wouldn't be too too surprised to see Parker get more minutes, be put into the regular rotation of bigs, and/or used situationally given needed spark to take advantage of matchups etc. by Coach Rose.  Glad to see Molinari back too, though he didn't play at EC.  He was playing pretty well for a true freshman before his injury, missing about 5-6 games.  Kevin Reed continues to play well, consistently with 8-12 points and good rebounding.   Actually, Reed and Musselman are more similar in rebouding and offensive skills, save for the fact that Kevin is not a trey shooter.  Reed is a junior so comes back next year too.  Yes, we lose Kman, Gonzalez, Rudnicki and J. Zimmer to graduation, big losses all, but think of all the players, the depth that IWU will have coming back, much of it battle tested with many varsity minutes, much of it for 2-3 more years of CCIW play.  Brady Zimmer gets healthy . . . and I have high hopes for several other of the JV squad to be very good CCIW varsity players in the coming few years -- i.e.  Overstreet, Heyan, Wiggs and Wheeler (if he gets healthy), to be exact.   Hope I got all the spelling correctly, even for the 5:15 squad!  And, I haven't mentioned Mayberger and Oswald, who also return next year.  Dortch is only a sophomore, and has a tremendous further upside, too, especially if he can develop his offensive game, mid-range shooting, trey shooting, . . . to go along with his tremendous defense, slashing, and rebounding abilities.   It's pretty easy to be optimistic with such depth and talent sticking around for 1-3 years more. 

Musselman, IMHO, could be in future years an all-CCIW player.  Again, I'd love to see Connolly and Schouten return . . . just say'in.  If they all came back, IWU's bigs lineup would look more like an Augie squad than the traditional IWU squads with talented, smaller wing players, perimeter shooters.  I think we'll be seeing more pounding of the post in the future.

First half of the CCIW race almost in the books.  It's going to be a very exciting and challenging second half.  I agree that NCC has the better second half schedule, a bit tougher for IWU and WC.  Augie is still in it but has a steep climb to get fully back into the CCIW race.   Big big game for them coming up at home vs. WC.  Of what I've seen of the games so far @ Shirk, Carthage is the toughest team in the second tier of the league. 

IWU70

But ... but ... what about Q's 5-guard offense??!!

[Titan Q]

My personal hope actually would be to see Ryan and Dan Schouten back in the IWU program next year. 
-----
Again, I'd love to see Connolly and Schouten return . . . just say'in.  If they all came back, IWU's bigs lineup would look more like an Augie squad than the traditional IWU squads with talented, smaller wing players, perimeter shooters. 

I'm not quite sure where you are coming from here.  Ryan Connolly and Dan Schouten are seniors at Illinois Wesleyan who chose not to play basketball this year - both will graduate this May.  Are you suggesting they should pay to attend IWU for one more year - again, degree already in hand - so they can try to compete for time in 2012-13? 

I mean, it's not like we are talking about Kent Raymond taking a year off here.  In IWU's final game of last season - the playoff loss to eventual national champion St. Thomas - Dan Schouten did not play (in favor of in PF's Koschnitzky, Ziemnik, and Davis), and Ryan Connolly played 8 minutes.  In terms of 2012-13...

* With 40 minutes to divide up at the 4, are you really saying you want minutes to be taken from Victor Davis and/or Andrew Ziemnik and given to a returning Dan Schouten?

* And with 40 minutes to divide up at the 5, do you really want minutes coming from Kevin Reed, Parker Musselman, and Nick Anderson and given to a returning Ryan Connolly?


Help me out with the thought process here, 70. 

[Titan Q]

If they all came back, IWU's bigs lineup would look more like an Augie squad than the traditional IWU squads with talented, smaller wing players, perimeter shooters. 

Some recent IWU wings...

* John Koschnitzky, 6-6 (2011-12)
* Jordan Zimmer, 6-5 (2008-09 through 2010-11)
* Keelan Amelianovich, 6-6 (2003-04 through 2005-06)


Are you sure IWU is known to have "smaller" wings?  How much taller do you want your Division III small forward?

[MoEv27]

Rudnicki is shooting .286 from 3 on the season....Kman is shooting .182 from 3 in CCIW play....i think it's safe to say that Musselman is "probably as as good as Kman or Rudnicki at shooting treys"!  Seem like fairly attainable numbers.

[Titan Q]

Check out the brutal missed shot clock violation call at the end of the NYU @ Wash U women's game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEgn-L8MKZQ&feature=youtu.be


What a tough way to lose a game!

[iwu70]

Q, thanks again for correcting me.  I was somehow under the impression that Schouten and Connolly were still juniors.   I guess time flies when you're having fun watching IWU hoops.  At least I spelled all the names right this time, I think, right? 

My thought process basically is, more or less, you can't have enough good players on your roster . . . and that many CCIW rosters are right now too short.  Even a program as healthy and robust as IWU's program, doesn't currently have enough players on the roster to really do the JV schedule justice.  Some games are going to be cancelled, have been cancelled, and some programs don't have any JV activity at all.  I guess I just err on the side of participation and for all CCIW programs to have more active JV programs, longer rosters.  I know there are transport and cost issues, etc. etc. but it seems to me that we are seeing lots of good reasons why all the teams could have a few more players . . . as JV guys come up to varsity, as players are injured, sick, or academically ineligible, and as, in the case this year, some key players quit, don't like the coach, or don't have the money to pay the dear tuitions of private liberal arts colleges.  All these things have happened this year and in recent years.  Schouten got to start some games earlier because of injuries to Kman, right?  Zimmer was out earlier, and now Molinari, Garriott and others have been out due to concussions.  We all know the Scarlata case . . . and others that could be mentioned.  Plus, some good players are late bloomers, some can't improve without JV or varsity experience etc.  You are right in saying that Schouten and Connolly would not likely replace the current IWU bigs in the current rotation, but who is to say that one or more of these excellent, current players might not have injury, illness, might wish to become a full-time scholar and quit basketball, might get cross-ways with coaches, or who might just instead want to go on study abroad or sit in Ames library and play online poker. 

On the point of the size of IWU's wing players, I guess I see the 2 and the 3 as "wing players," and, of course, the ones you named are some of the bigger ones IWU has had, but there are others, including Dortch now, Sean Johnson etc. that were, even in current DIII parlance, a bit undersized.  Players can of course make up for these size disadvantages with other skills of toughness, speed, and shooting skill as we have seen, but we do also have the model of Voiles at Augie recently, a 6'9" guy playing wing.  If such mobile, quick and skilled players are available at this size, I'm sure they will be played and increasingly come to the DIII level.  We are indeed lucky to have a 2, a "wing player," in Jordan Zimmer who is 6'5". 

MoEv27 quite rightly points out that the trey shooting of Rudnicki and Kman has been disappointing, rather weak this year.  Down from previous years?  I believe Ziemnik, Davis and now Musselman are shooting a better percentage from treyville than are these perimeter players.  Surely better than Dortch who rarely even takes a three, and perhaps better than Gonzalez, too, though Eliud has hit some big threes in recent games.  Zimmer and IWU's bigs are actually providing more of the trey shooting skills than these others.  Dortch will hopefully improve is mid-range and trey shooting in future years.  Perhaps Molinari will have to improve his 3 point shooting range and percentage, too.  And, many are hoping that Brady Zimmer returns and provides additiional, high-percentage long-range bombs next season.  Overstreet looks pretty good from three, at least in JV competition.  Heyen has potential in this regard as well. 

Q, I agree, if Schouten and Connolly are indeed seniors, it is of course unlikely they will want to pay an extra year of IWU's dear tuition and return another year to try  their skills at Titan roundball.  But, I do hope that IWU and other CCIW program's rosters will grow a bit longer, allowing for a more full and consistent JV program.  Frankly, the CCIW's women's game could benefit from the same, though I think that very unlikely to happen given a more limited pool of DIII quality recruits and the cost and transport factors mentioned earlier. 

IWU plays Millikin at home tomorrow night.  Let's hope for no let-down, looking past the obviously weak "Big Blue" and on to the game at Wheaton on Saturday.  Ypsi is right that in our student days, the big games were always with Millikin, so this current era of a very uncompetitive Big Blue team is rather odd, strange for us.   But, this Wheaton away game is a crucial one for IWU's drive for a conference title.  The Titans need a few good away wins vs. the contenders.  Musselman in the regular rotation?  It would surely be justified given his output in limited minutes in his recent two varsity appearances. 

One has to wonder if IWU and perhaps other programs can actually complete their JV schedules during the rest of this season.

Agreed, brutal missed shot clock violation.  Tough way to go down. 

IWU70

[iwumichigander]

When Wesleyan visited North Central recently, during pre-game warmups I noticed a player I was not familiar with who looked like someone the Titans had brought in from the football team.

Coincidentally, Musselman's brother is a member of IWU's football team...

http://www.iwusports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=1995&path=football

Looks like a more in shape freshman version of former IWU player Ryan Connolly.

Being big is probably the only similarity.  Connolly, of course, was a pure back-to-the-basket guy who rarely took a jumpshot. Parker Musselman seems more comfortable facing the basket, and has really nice touch all the way out past the arc.  Two big boys, but very different basketball players.

Musselman's shooting range, ball handling and court sense as a freshman and for his size - appears to be exceptional.  My first thoughts watching him (reaching way back) - Sheldon Thompson only bigger.

[iwu70]

Yes, some similarities between Parker Musselman and Sheldon Thompson.  Sheldon was an incredible rebounder, far better than Musselman to date, though of course Parker has his whole career in front of him still.  I think Sheldon is top five all time in IWU rebounding records.  Sheldon's super high-arching shot was something truly beautiful to behold.   I think Parker has a better, more diverse all-round offensive game, and is a very good passer with a mature court sense, court vision for a freshman.  He plays relaxed, with a smile (even a smirk) on his face, and seems to make good decisions with the ball.  I've seen Sheldon several times of late, here in Bloomington and at games at The Shirk.  Always wonderful to see him and his wife . . . truly wonderful people.  Tommy Gramkow and his wife too, sometimes at The Shirk.  Tommy, as I mentioned, was at our 40th class reunion in fall, 2010.  Great to see him and have him thank Lee Short (in 1966 then Director of Admissions, who was also at our reunion dinner) for letting Tommy into to IWU!  (No Lee Short, no Tommy Gramkow to IWU, no last second shot to beat ISU, in the last ISU-IWU basketball game ever!).   That '68-70 IWU team with Gramkow, Sheldon Thompson and Fred Evans, is, of course, my favorite team in all of IWU basketball history.  They gave us lots of good times in the old, hot and truly jumping Fred Young Fieldhouse and in trips to the Salem/Final four of our day, that's "Kansas City here we come."   I can tell you we never missed a class . . . and, what did I say earlier about "premature senility?"

Ypsi, back me up here, OK?

IWU70

[iwu70]

Congrats to Mssr. McCrary, CCIW Player of the Week, yet again.  Mr. McCrary, job well done, you can take this week, two games off, thank you very much.

IWU70

[sac]

Check out the brutal missed shot clock violation call at the end of the NYU @ Wash U women's game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEgn-L8MKZQ&feature=youtu.be


What a tough way to lose a game!

Wow, there is just no excuse for missing that.

[Mr. Ypsi]

That '69-'70 Titan team was truly amazing - except for Augie in 1973, it was the last undefeated CCIW champion.  In some ways, perhaps their most incredible game was their last (alas, a loss).  I can't find any records to back me up, but IIRC they came closer to beating Kentucky State in the first round at KC than any other team did not only that year, but the next two years as well!  Again relying on just my highly fallible memory, 6'6" Fred Evans out-rebounded future first-round NBA draft pick Elmore Smith (who I believe led the nation in rebounding and was 7'2") AND held the nation's leading scorer, Travis "Machine Gun" Grant to the lowest point total of his career - and lost anyway mainly due to a guy I at least had never heard of named Bill Graham!  Also, the battles against Jesse Price and Millikin were fantastic (if I'm remembering the right season - perhaps he graduated in '69?).  And, of course, there is always that unforgetable night in Normal!

[iwu70]

Thanks, Ypsi, you have a better memory than I do.  Those trips to KC were really great.  I took my life into my own hands and drove out there to KC with Grady Skaggs.  No wisdom on my part.  As I recall, we slept quite a few fans to each motel/hotel room.   Who could forget that Kentucky State game and Travis Grant.  Wowza.  And, those Titan teams had alot of heart, never-say-die spirit.  The games vs. Millikin in Fred Young were really the top games of the CCIW race, as I recall, each year.  We used to sit on top of the Wall, at the south end, basically sitting on top of the ticket booth.  Indeed, best memory is still that night in Normal, at the old Horton Fieldhouse, chicken and all! 

Our Titans are really looking good this year . . . and I think for several more years to come with all this great underclassmen depth that our roster has just now.  I also have very high hopes for the women's team, playing at a very high level, making the stretch run now for the 5th consecutive CCIW championship. Looks within the realm, especially with the success of "run and jump" and the consistently outstanding play of Olivia Lett.  So far, at least, no other player in the CCIW on the women's side, can do what she does -- as of today, a four-time CCIW Player of the Week. 

IWU70

[Titan Q]

That '69-'70 Titan team was truly amazing - except for Augie in 1973, it was the last undefeated CCIW champion.  In some ways, perhaps their most incredible game was their last (alas, a loss).  I can't find any records to back me up, but IIRC they came closer to beating Kentucky State in the first round at KC than any other team did not only that year, but the next two years as well!  Again relying on just my highly fallible memory, 6'6" Fred Evans out-rebounded future first-round NBA draft pick Elmore Smith (who I believe led the nation in rebounding and was 7'2") AND held the nation's leading scorer, Travis "Machine Gun" Grant to the lowest point total of his career - and lost anyway mainly due to a guy I at least had never heard of named Bill Graham!  Also, the battles against Jesse Price and Millikin were fantastic (if I'm remembering the right season - perhaps he graduated in '69?).  And, of course, there is always that unforgetable night in Normal!

Kentucky State's games from the 1970 NAIA tournament...

def Illinois Wesleyan, 64-56
def UW-Eau Claire, 73-65
def Central Arkansas, 66-56
def Guilford, 108-90
def Central Washington, 79-71

1971...

def St. Thomas (MN), 100-65
def Central Washington, 73-59
def Grambling, 93-81
def Elizabeth City, 104-91
def Eastern Michigan, 104-82

1972...

def Minot State, 108-68
def West Georgia, 112-83
def St. Thomas, 66-57
def Stephen F Austin, 87-82
def UW-Eau Claire, 71-62

Travis Grant tournament scoring average:

1970 = 27.4 ppg
1971 = 33.6 ppg
1972 = 42.6 ppg

Grant scored 4045 points in his collegiate career at Kentucky State.  (For perspective, Steve Djurickovic scored 2547 at Carthage to finish 3rd all-time in the CCIW, and all-time CCIW leader Leon Gobczynski scored 2635 for the Big Blue.)

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/naia/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/DIMBB_ChampionshipRecords.pdf